Help Please, my boilers PRESSURE keeps going into the red

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Old 01-16-14, 01:35 PM
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Help Please, my boilers PRESSURE keeps going into the red

Hi Guys, It's been 5 years and I needed to purge my 2nd zone again and for got how. I managed to get heat in there but I forgot what valves need to be shut off and which ones need to be left on. My boiler is reaching the red line on PRESSURE. Help!! Please!!!
 

Last edited by NJT; 01-16-14 at 05:12 PM.
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Old 01-16-14, 02:36 PM
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Hi Joy,

Purging a zone of air will not cure high pressure in the boiler. It may help temporarily, but will not cure the 'root cause' of the problem

Tell us the make/model of the boiler for starters.

Tell us what PRESSURE you are seeing in addition to the TEMPERATURE.
 

Last edited by NJT; 01-16-14 at 05:13 PM.
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Old 01-16-14, 02:40 PM
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You talking about this gauge? ... did you mean the PRESSURE being up close to 30 PSI?

[edit: yes, you did]
 

Last edited by NJT; 01-16-14 at 05:14 PM.
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Old 01-16-14, 02:59 PM
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Here's your original thread from 'back in the day'.................... may help for reference purposes.

http://www.doityourself.com/forum/bo...il-boiler.html

It appears that some of your problem with that loop is the fact that there doesn't appear to be any type of 'air removal' devices on the system. At one time your system had a large steel 'compression' tank on the ceiling above the boiler. That type of system does not require the air removal devices because that green valve on top of the boiler takes care of that and sends the air back to the big old compression tank. Since that tank was removed, the air that collects in the system has no place to go.

At some point that tank was replaced by that smaller gray tank which is a modern type of 'expansion' tank. Systems with that type of tank require air removal devices.

That type of tank also needs service periodically because there is an 'air charge' in that tank that is lost at the rate of about 1-2 PSI per year. If it hasn't been checked and charged in many years, it would explain why you are having problems with PRESSURE (I'm presuming that's what you meant) in the system.

Read these two threads that have been 'stuck' to the top of the forum since your last visits.

http://www.doityourself.com/forum/bo...ure-gauge.html

http://www.doityourself.com/forum/bo...sion-tank.html
 
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Old 01-16-14, 03:12 PM
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Yes it is the pressure guage that I was referring to. sorry. I did find the release and brought the pressure back down to around 18 right where the picture is. lol my biggest problem is I can't remember what valves should be turned off. I'm now thinking that the water feed to the boiler should be off?
 
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Old 01-16-14, 03:21 PM
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I'm now thinking that the water feed to the boiler should be off?
Why are you thinking that?

With your boiler there are basically TWO things that can cause the pressure to go up too high:

1. EXPANSION TANK NEEDS SERVICE. There are step by step instructions in the thread I posted link to for doing that. All you need is an ACCURATE tire pressure gauge, and a decent air pump or small compressor, and some time... and maybe a garden hose and a bucket. It's relatively easy.

2. WATER FEED VALVE IS _SLOWLY_ "LEAKING THROUGH" and over-pressurizing the system.

Item ONE is the FIRST STEP. You need to get to the KNOWN STATE of a correctly charges and properly functioning expansion tank before you can know if the feed valve is at fault.

As for having constant air problems in that other zone, that's because there are no air vents on the boiler, so the air that comes into the system dissolved in the water has no way to get out after it comes out of solution in the water and forms bubbles.
 
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Old 01-16-14, 04:08 PM
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I'm thinking that because I messed with the valves and created the problem. I was trying to purge the second zone and I opened and closed things and couldn't remember what things should stay closed! I know, I'm a heating system illiterate! Thats why you guys are great!
 
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Old 01-16-14, 04:12 PM
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These are the valves I messed with. There is another one a little higher on the right side. It comes in from the main water supply. The lower oval one is the one I think should stay closed, the red one should also stay closed as added protection and the one thats higher should stay open I think to feed hotwater to the house. This is what I came up with after an afternoon of stareing at it!
 
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Old 01-16-14, 04:20 PM
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Come here FIRST the next time!

Pic a pretty dark... need to get a lamp down there for any future pics.

If the pressure reducing feed regulator is working properly, there's no harm in leaving those valves open.

If the problem you are now having is because the feed valve is 'leaking through', then the TEMPORARY fix would be to leave them closed until such time as the valve could be replaced.

As mentioned, the FIRST thing I would do is check/charge or replace (if necessary) the expansion tank.
 
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Old 01-16-14, 04:47 PM
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Size:  47.9 KB I am in valve hell! On the brightside, The expansion tank seems to be fine the pressure according to my guage was 12psi!!! thank heavens for small miracles.
 
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Old 01-16-14, 05:07 PM
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Much better pics! My old eyes thank you!

The other valve on the water feed line (the one with the black handle) is for something else... not the boiler. Does that pipe maybe continue on to your water heater?

It looks like the larger pipe coming down from the ceiling is the water supply, and then it splits at that tee to feed the boiler and something else... maybe even an outside faucet?

In the other pics, those two blue handwheel valves, NOT the DRAIN valve, need to be fully open.

The 'thumb lever' valve just below the drain valve needs to be vertical, as shown.

The expansion tank seems to be fine the pressure according to my guage was 12psi!!!
Let me ask you this though...

When you measured the pressure on the tank, had you dropped the pressure in the boiler to ZERO as told in the step by step instruction in that thread I linked to?

If you did NOT, then you did NOT get an accurate pressure reading on the tank.

You need to follow those instructions step by step, to the LETTER!

Don't count your chickens just yet!

I am in valve hell!
Joy, if you have seen what I have seen, you would be rejoicing in valve HEAVEN!
 
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Old 01-16-14, 05:16 PM
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By the way Joy, what is the purpose of the foil pan?

Is something leaking?
 
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Old 01-16-14, 05:28 PM
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Oh the foil pan...hmmm have you seen it before? Yes the valve that is up higher sprung a slow annoying leak when I turned it. I got so exited over the simplicity of checking the expansion tank that yes I forgot to bring the pressure down to zero. What a buzz kill, damn. Thanks for the open, close session. What about the valve handle under the circulator(not shown) open or closed? You cannot even imagine how much better I already feel.
 
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Old 01-16-14, 05:33 PM
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One more question (maybe) should the circulator be running when the boiler is?
 
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Old 01-16-14, 06:07 PM
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Oh the foil pan...hmmm have you seen it before? Yes the valve that is up higher sprung a slow annoying leak when I turned it.
Uh-huh... lots of times! There's one in the attic above my utility room right now! Not going on the roof to fix that leak until Spring though!

I think you can fix that leak in about ten seconds. It's the red handle valve, right?

See that big nut just below the handle? That is called a 'gland nut'. Inside that gland nut there is a flexible 'packing material' that seals the valve stem from leaking. That material is held under pressure by the gland nut. Tighten that gland nut a wee bit... until it stops leaking. It won't be more than maybe 1/8 of a turn on that nut. Just enough to stop the leak.

What about the valve handle under the circulator(not shown) open or closed?
I know you aren't talking about a DRAIN? There are often drains in that location. If it's a 'shutoff' valve, it must be OPEN.

Any shutoff valve that is in the path of the system water flow should be OPEN.
 
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Old 01-16-14, 06:12 PM
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One more question (maybe) should the circulator be running when the boiler is?
More specifically...

should the circulator be running when the BURNER is firing? Is that what you mean?

If so, in most cases the answer is YES... but with some systems, NO...

Can you rephrase and clarify by telling us why you are asking so I can give a better answer? Are you seeing something that's confusing you?
 
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Old 01-16-14, 06:56 PM
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Hahahahaha, seeing something thats confusing me...your funny, heck no I'm never confused when dealing with the creature in the basement! Thats what I have you for! Yes thats what I mean. I answered my own question by cranking up the heat in the second zone the circulator came on. So I guess it's for that zone. I also tested the water pressure regulator that is on the pipes and yes it dosen't work very well it lets the water in thus raising the pressure so those water valves will stay off for now and if I need to I can build the pressure manually....I think? Am I getting it? As far as the drippy valves I will take your very expert advice about the nuts and try that tomorrow but for tonight I will put up with the torture of the slow drips. Thats a cake walk now! You have been AWESOME once again! Thanks so much.
 
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Old 01-16-14, 07:20 PM
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if I need to I can build the pressure manually....I think? Am I getting it?
Yes'm I bleeve you are! DO keep an eye on that pressure gauge if the valve is closed though.

BUT, don't neglect that tank! I have little doubt that there is little to no air in it.

I'm gettin' tard too... time to fluff up the straw and make a nest for the night...
 
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