Weilclain Boiler goes into safe mode

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Old 01-28-14, 08:29 PM
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Weilclain Boiler goes into safe mode

I have a Weil Mclain WTGO 3 with a QB180 burner on it.
About a month ago I noticed that as long as the water temp. in boiler is between Hi limit (180F) and Low limit(150 F) (Dif=15) of the triple Aqua Stat controller (L8124A,C) it runs fine, but as soon as the temp. goes below the Low limit, I had to restart it by pressing the red button on Honeywell R4184 D1027 (Intermittent Ignition Oil Primary) in otherwords it goes into safe zone. What I am not sure of is that if it goes into safe mode because of the Cad, or the Ignition Oil Primary is bad?

I have replaced the L8124A controller, since first I thought the problem was that controller was not starting the pump and I did not think to test the orange wire sendingg power to the burner. This morning after I noticed that it does not start, I put the volt meter on the B1 - Burner line of the controller (orange wire) and it was supplying power to the burner. so I know that the new controller is trying to start the burner but it does not start unless I press the red button on the Oil Primary. Any help is greatly appreciated. Should I start by replacing the CAD, or the Ignition primary?

Thanks for your help.
 
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Old 01-28-14, 08:55 PM
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It goes into safety for one of two reasons. No oil or no ignition. That primary control that your resetting is most likely a 45 second control which means that if your cad cell does not see fire in 45 sec. it will shut the burner off for safety reasons.
If your sure you have oil and its getting to the nozzle then its not getting ignition.
It could be your transformer or your electrodes. The tips could be wearing out.
You could have a bad nozzle. Anything in that assembly could do it.

Your cad cell only comes into play after it ignites. The fact that its shutting down is telling me its working.
Without knowing your skill set the easiest thing to do is change the transformer but I wouldn't do that without pulling the assembly and checking to see what that looks like.
It's your call if you're trying to save a service call. In case that's not it don't throw the old parts out.

You should have it serviced every year. If you didn't this year they may solve the problem while cleaning it.
It might be cheaper than parts changing.
Just a thought.

Good Luck,
 
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Old 01-29-14, 07:42 AM
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Hi Spott -
Thanks for your reply.
The transformer was broken so I replaced it with a new one a couple of months ago.
I also clean the unit every year, my self and this year I also replaced all the Fractory parts/blankets inside the chamber since they were cracked. I have oil inn the tank (300 Gallons) and it is coming in, since the boiler is working 95% of the time. It may run for couple of days before this happen.

When I cleaned the electrodes, it looked good (no cracks on the ceramic and tips looked good), but it is about 3 years old, and the nozzle is on its 2nd season. but I will take it apart to check the Electrodes and nozzle again. These electrodes are hard to find.

In my opinion, the fact that I press the red button on the primary, and it starts should mean that the primary is good??
I cleaned the cad cell last night and it was a little bit dirty, that can cause the miss-reading so if that does not do it, I will check the nozzle and electrode and replace if needed. it is really cold in PA and I hate to bring the unit down .

Any other thoughts?

Thanks again
 
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Old 01-29-14, 09:32 AM
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hi frank-

You probably already have this manual but just in case:

http://www.firedragonent.com/w-m.qb.manual.pdf

The electrode settings are shown on page 5. Do you have a gauge to check the settings or can you make one up? I have a Beckett AFG burner and the electrode kit comes with a little gauge to help set the electrode spacing. (But I still have a difficult time getting it right). Just a thought.

Maybe you could throw in a new nozzle since they are pretty cheap and pretty easy to change. (At least on mine it is easy.) The nozzle type (which you probably already know) is listed in the table on page 6 of the manual.

I have that same oil primary Honeywell R4184 D1027. Itís a real beeotch when the button pops up. Like spott says it could be anything. The few times it happened to me was because I ran out of oil.

Sounds like you do your own maintenance so maybe you could also change any filters. Those are pretty cheap also. Was just thinking even though you have a lot of oil maybe if your oil filter (or any other filter, if there is on in the fuel pump) is dirty, maybe there would be an intermittent oil flow problem?
 
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Old 01-29-14, 10:13 AM
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Is your oil tank outside? Does the shut down happen on extremely cold nights/days? One pipe or two pipe oil supply to the pump?
 
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Old 01-29-14, 11:19 AM
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Frank,
When you reset the burner do you get a little puff of smoke or a little rumble or does it start right up.
If your getting a little smoke that's a sign of unburned oil which means you had oil an no ignition is why it went off.
If your cad cell was dirty there could be a chance that your burner started OK but the cad cell didn't read it and shut it down.
On that thought your cad cell only gets dirty from a dirty fire so if it turns out that's the case you might want to adjust the fire.
The thing with the nozzle is its brass and from the constant pressure it wears from the inside and deforms the hole and the oil starts shooting out in different directions if it gets to bad. Make sure the oil isn't hiiting your tips and getting them wet and harder to ignite. In that case they may start to form a little carbon and it takes very little to stop that spark and even a long enough delay will shut it down.

I wouldn't look to much into your primary. The fact that it shuts down and can be reset sounds like its working fine.

Are you using an efficiency tester or by eye when setting the fire.
 
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Old 01-29-14, 12:39 PM
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Zoedad, yes I do have the QB180 manual. Thanks anyway.

Spott -
no there have never been a puff, and since I cleaned the CAD it has been working good. But I am going to order a Nozzle and electrode just in case. I will probably open it up this week end and if needed it I will replace them. Also I check the fire by eye. I don't have a fire tester. What is that anyway ?

Frank
 
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Old 01-29-14, 03:43 PM
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Frank,
It's a combustion anilyzer. Fairly expensive kit that helps you get the settings for proper combustion. It has a temp gage, draft gauge, smoke tester, co2 tester. All things go into the smoke pipe to tell you how efficient you unit is burning.

When the co. do tune ups they're suppose to use these to properly set your unit.

On another note I made a call and found out they haven't made that burner in about 6 yrs.
The electrodes are special and they don't even stock them but can be had from Weil McLain at a cost of about 60.00.
Very expensive for electrodes. Hope you find a better price.

When supply houses don't keep in stock you know there either expensive or there's no call.

Good Luck,
 
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