Question about oil burner "locking out"


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Old 02-08-14, 07:14 AM
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Question about oil burner "locking out"

I was on here about a month ago asking about aquastats. Basically my boiler wasn't firing at times, then it was locking out and I thought it was an aquastat issue, you guys set me straight on that.

I'm wondering...is there a setting for the lockout to engage after a certain amount of failures? For instance, I work for the electric company. An overhead feeder has a lockout relay that will activate after 3 failures. If there is an overhead short detected, the breaker will trip but reclose up to 3 times. If the fault clears, the breaker stays closed. If it shorts 3 times, the breaker opens and locks out. This is in case the fault was temporary and caused by a gust of wind or an animal.

Sorry to veer off course there. But I was wondering if the boiler lockout could work the same way or it always locks out after the first fail? I'm asking because my boiler at times doesn't fire up. Unfortunately I've never actually caught it at the moment it fails and locks out. It's always a case where I come home or wake up to no heat/hot water. In every instance this has happened, I hit the reset button and it fires right up without fail. I'm thinking if it failed once, maybe I could set it to where it doesn't lock out until the next attempt.

I know it's a crazy question. Electricity is my thing. I'm lost with plumbing (obviously). Thanks in advance for any advice.
 
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Old 02-08-14, 07:33 AM
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They do not make a control like and the reason being is the oil.
Burners go off on reset for two reasons. No oil or no ignition. When the burner fires if there is an ignition problem and it doesn't light the oil still goes into the chamber.

Every time you reset the burner and it doesn't light you have 45 seconds of oil pumping into your chamber. If the burner kept doing this and then suddenly lit you could have a potential chimney fire or worse.

That safety is there for your protection. As long as the burner runs it pumps oil. Without the safety there would be nothing to stop the burner from emptying your whole tank of oil if you weren't home to catch it.

I hope I didn't bore you. It wasn't a stupid question. Just as electricians don't know plumbing. Plumbers don't know heating controls and some of us heating techs are frustrated electricians.
There's room for all of us.

Good Luck,
 
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Old 02-08-14, 07:45 AM
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Thank you! You didn't bore me at all. In fact, you gave me all the detail I needed. Your answer makes perfect sense. I need to find out what's causing this. I heard something about BioFuel potentially being the issue. It turns out the oil company I use (unbeknownst to me) switched to B20 last winter and this coincides with about the time I started having this intermittent problem. Before I call for service, I'm gong to buy straight # 2 for my next delivery and see if that makes a difference. I think I'm about done with BioFuel

Thanks again!
 
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Old 02-08-14, 09:05 AM
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some of us heating techs are frustrated electricians
They BOTH frustrate me!

Actually, the newer 'oil primaries' DO have a form of 'recycle' built in.

The R7284U which has replaced the R7184U has 'soft' lockout and recycle 3 times before 'hard' lockout occurs. I think this is what you are asking?

Limited Recycle
This feature limits the number of recycle trials (for each
call for heat) to a maximum of three trials. If the flame is
lost three times and does not successfully satisfy a call
for heat, the R7284 locks out.
 
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Old 02-08-14, 09:27 AM
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Not sure how much the biofuel would contribute but many people start to look at that first since they say that's the only thing different. Many factors can cause it not to fire. Dirty filter/screen/nozzle, electrodes not aligned correctly, draft issues, transformer, dirty/blocked air inlet, sensor issues etc. When was last tune up?

Histories I've had on my systems.

Dead spot on stator/winding of Beckett motor- very random no start. I had a contract at the time and service company replaced filter, nozzle, electrodes, stack sensors, transformer and a couple other parts. It would work fine for 1-2 weeks and no start. drove them and me crazy. I redid the whole system as it was junk anyway but gave a friend the Beckett. 6 months later (with random no starts at his house) we were in basement when it didn't fire and heard the humming/issue. Tapped motor and it started, replaced motor and fixed.

"New system"- random no starts that also fired right up on reset but only happened during warm weather when system was only working for indirect water heater. There was no oil solenoid so when system started it was a fuel/air/ignition all at once. My Central air was causing a down draft through chimney as rest of house was decently air sealed so atomization was not correct when it tried to fire. Replaced oil pump and control with one that had a oil shutoff solenoid AND controls with pre and post purge. Worked well for years.

Same system that worked well for years random no starts- always refired on reset, started happening 1-2x week. Checked electrodes and all electronics and fuel filter/nozzle numerous times. End result- hold down screw that locks nozzle and electrodes in place came loose. whole assembly moved 1/2" back and the "Z" dimension (how far back nozzle is in airtube) was off. Fuel not atomizing into chamber correctly. That I know of you can only check that if you have a swing away door or they remove the whole airtube assembly to check with gauge. With new drop light I was able to see the shiny screw "marks" had moved and questioned why.

2 years later no burner fire at heat calls. Bad solder joint on back of Aquastat the finally "broke" after working perfectly for 8-9 years. Resoldered terminal and was working "perfectly" for 5-6 years until I moved.
 
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Old 02-08-14, 09:32 AM
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Actually, the newer 'oil primaries' DO have a form of 'recycle' built in.

The R7284U which has replaced the R7184U has 'soft' lockout and recycle 3 times before 'hard' lockout occurs. I think this is what you are asking?
My friend had that while trying to reprime his system after a problem with water in tank. It would not reset after the 3rd lock. Manual says Technician must be called. Internet search provided the "help" on fixing that issue.
 
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Old 02-08-14, 09:38 AM
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Yes, there's a 'super secret double lock triple encrypted NSA password protection' on that feature... that can easily be found as you have discovered.

A few properly timed button pushes gets one into a 'pump priming' mode that delays the lockout to allow pumps and lines to be primed also.

EXCELLENT summary of possibles Sequoia!
 
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Old 02-08-14, 10:06 AM
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Thank you all for these posts...very helpful! I do have the boiler tuned every year. The system is about 6 or 7 years old...I've lived here for 4...and it's been very reliable up until this started last winter. It's a Riello burner, Weil McLain Boiler. I'm just going to bite the bullet and call someone in if it gets worse or if the oil company change doesn't yield any difference. I'm down to a quarter tank now so I'm ready to order more. I guess it might take a few tanks before I get all of the bio out of there...but the fact remains that the problem does coincide exactly with when my oil company changed to B20.
 
 

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