Separate flow check valves still needed if the new circ pumps have it?

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Old 02-16-14, 10:10 AM
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Separate flow check valves still needed if the new circ pumps have it?

Replacing boiler and will be re-plumbing the piping and wonder if I should remove the Taco 219 swetchek valves on the supply lines because the new pumps have check valves included. Should I keep them in a double protection or are they just another point of failure/un-needed? thanks...
 
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Old 02-16-14, 10:14 AM
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Hello... IMO I would remove them..

The pump checks are sufficient....

What boiler are you getting?

Are you doing p/s piping?

Pipe correctly now for all the benefits...
 
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Old 02-16-14, 12:44 PM
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Piping Correctly

Thank you lawrosa, I was leaning that way myself. I have a Buderus G115WS 4-section w/Reilo oil fired sitting in my garage waiting for spring thaw to move to basement. House has 1st & 2nd floor zones plus an indirect. I'm going to get the Logamatic R2107 with outdoor resent and decided to go with Grundfos pumps w/Taco switching relay controller. Thinking about putting in a tiger loop. I could use the old Taco 007-F3 pumps that came out of there but figure now might be a good time to replace.

I am taking my time and trying to do things up right and have a tidy installation by re-plumbing and mounting components to back wall in basement. I will be putting the pumps on supply side instead of return side in old installation. Pardon my ignorance but with you say P/S, are you referring to Primary/Secondary loops? The 1st floor will be primary and indirect will be tied to that. I need to study up more on proper piping and building the supply and return manifolds. I will be putting isolation valves on both sides of the pumps. The supply side manifold will be 1-1/4" and return side will be 1", which is what the boiler calls for.

Any and all tips and suggestions are most appreciated!
 
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Old 02-16-14, 01:25 PM
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Buderus G115WS 4-section
Why did you pick that particular size? Would not a 3 section have been adequate? Did you do a heat loss estimate before selecting boiler?

The 1st floor will be primary and indirect will be tied to that.
You want the indirect on it's own path directly to and from the boiler, not tied into another loop.

The supply side manifold will be 1-1/4" and return side will be 1", which is what the boiler calls for.
Why would they spec 2 different size piping? Flow in = Flow out, pipe size should be same.

What manual did you see that in?
 
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Old 02-16-14, 07:11 PM
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Size & piping

I just typed everything up and lost it trying to re-authenticate to post grrrr

Anyways, afraid 3-section would be too small in 2300 sq ft 2-store colonial in CT and 5-sec too big. Also might add another zone later for the basement. The G115WS/4 is rated for 95k net/109k gross with chimney vent. I understand you cannot rely on what was originally installed but the old Weil McClain was rated for 95k Net also. I understand most people don't use the full heating capacity at any given moment in time so there should always be extra capacity available.

No heat loss done but I like plumbingods advice for quick & dirty calculation: L x W = 2300 sq. ft.
2300 x 35 ( if new home ) = 80,500 BTU
2300 x 40 if older home, poor insulation or lots of glass) = 92,000 BTU Load

BTU load plus 25,000 for indirect heat =

New home - 80,500 + 25,000 = 105,500 BTU Load
Old home - 92,000 + 25,000 = 117,000 BTU Load
These are just quick numbers and are oversized.

Not sure if my home is considered new or old but maybe somewhere in between because the windows and doors are drafty (another on-going project).
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My indirect Boilermate does have a separate zone, I may have stated that wrong but I have to read-up on how to wire it in correctly. The Logamatic has DHW priority so that should help.
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Piping size in and out of the boiler is from the spec sheet.http://www.buderus.us/files/20111120...chure-0711.pdf
 
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Old 02-16-14, 07:29 PM
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No heat loss done but I like plumbingods advice for quick & dirty calculation: L x W = 2300 sq. ft.
2300 x 35 ( if new home ) = 80,500 BTU
2300 x 40 if older home, poor insulation or lots of glass) = 92,000 BTU Load
Yes, quick and DIRTY.

35 BTU / SF for a new home is too high.

40 is ok for an older home with windows missing.

DO THE HEAT LOSS! you will probably find your home comes in around 25 BTU / SF ... it should only take you a couple hours. It's worth the time.

BTU load plus 25,000 for indirect heat
Why are you adding 25K for the indirect? Not necessary...

Piping size in and out of the boiler is from the spec sheet
Those are just the tapping sizes and nothing to do with what size pipe to use.

1" pipe is good for 80K BTUH at a proper delta T of 20F and flow VELOCITY of 4 FT/SEC.

The 3 section could use 1" on both, with an adapter from 1 to 1-1/4.

If you're installing the 4 section, I would run 1-1/4 for BOTH supply and return and reduce to 1" at the boiler.

How many feet of baseboard ELEMENT are installed in the home? If you only have 80K worth of heat emitters, why install a bigger boiler? You wouldn't be able to utilize the extra capacity anyway!

Of course, the cow is already out of the barn since you already have the boiler and not likely to return it for a smaller one... so, live and learn I guess!
 
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Old 02-16-14, 08:06 PM
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Many thanks! We always plan for worst case I guess... all this and I heat with wood pellets lol. The extra 25k for indirect was part of his formula. I think my old boiler had the reducer at the return input also. Thanks for clarifying... makes perfect sense you would want the same size on both sides. Future expansions might be to add a zone to heat the basement, might install kick heater in kitchen and if we ever build an addition onto the living room we would be set. I am comfortable with a 4-section.
 
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Old 02-17-14, 06:01 AM
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My indirect Boilermate does have a separate zone, I may have stated that wrong but I have to read-up on how to wire it in correctly. The Logamatic has DHW priority so that should help.
Like Trooper noted, it's best that the DHW is a zone in and of itself. Related to that, I would use a dedicated pump for the Boilermate, rather than a zone valve.

Since you have time you can carefully review the Installation/Operating Manual for your Boilermate, in it you will see several piping configurations and wiring diagrams covering a variety of different situations. Several years ago when I added a Boilermate to my system, it was my first time installing an IHW. The information in the I/O Manual was invaluable.
 
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