error 10 on honeywell L7224 aquatsat please help!! No one seems to know what it

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  #41  
Old 03-04-14, 06:06 AM
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GG, have you observed the actual water temperatures over the course of time? Does the system actually reach high limit before the heat calls are satisfied? Apologies if this has already been asked and I missed it, or forgot... and I'm too lazy to read back.
Do you mean what the bt is reading? If so I've watched it a few times, the burner cuts on at about 169, then off at 180, but the temp keeps going up to 190.
 
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Old 03-04-14, 06:09 AM
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crap! I just got up to look since it's been cutting on and off a lot this morning and guess what?!?!?! error 10! again. Of course it's been almost exactly a week!??!?!?! The last time it happened was tuesday. ??? Hmmmm, does it reach it's magic number in a weeks time?

I'm going to turn the power off and clear it. Or should I wait to see if it'll clear itself? I hate it running so much though. It's been on and off 4 times now in the last 15 minutes.
 
  #43  
Old 03-04-14, 06:55 AM
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But my dad told us to set the diff higher, he said most people he knows has it set to more like 15-25. He thought our 11 was too low, but someone else told us to set it that low. And yes even in our frustration with all this, I can still laugh a bit about it.
I like your attitude GG!

I believe that Spott may have misunderstood the Honeywell guy that he talked to.

Using a LOWER DIFF setting is counter-productive to short cycling.

I would consider listening to Dad... Father Knows Best!

My suggestion is to set the High limit BACK to 180, and the DIFF to at LEAST 20 and see how it goes.

You said the home is fitted with fin-tube baseboard? Have the covers been removed and the fins been cleaned of dust/pet hair? Are the BOTTOM openings of the baseboards free of obstruction, such as wall to wall carpeting? Is a large majority of the baseboard being blocked by heavy furniture?
 
  #44  
Old 03-04-14, 07:02 AM
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"BOOST" function is something that is used by the ODR module. It's function is to allow a faster recovery from a 'setback' period, and to allow the system to heat the home in the event that the ODR module settings are really screwed up.

The ODR module (that you don't have) 'modulates' the boiler water temperature to suit outdoor temperatures. It does this by targeting HIGHER boiler temperatures when the outdoor temp is COLDER, and vice versa.

Say you want to recover from a night setback period in the morning... thermostat kicks up the temperature and the boiler water ODR target is say 150F ... but since you are recovering from setback that heat call lasts a long time. The control will sense this long heat call and INCREASE the boiler temperature target by 10F. If the call STILL persists, it will BOOST AGAIN, another 10F. This process will continue as long as the heat call continues.
 
  #45  
Old 03-04-14, 07:44 AM
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yup the house has fin baseboard. It's fairly clean, we did a vacuum, but haven't removed the covers yet. Fun I just asked my husband about doing that this past weekend, we plan on doing it this coming weekend. But looking at them they are in fairly good shape, aside from a small amt of dust. as for furniture. That's the bad part. They put one on an inside wall, which we'd like to see about removing the one completely. The others are on almost every single wall. We do have things in front of them, but with the very small room sizes there is no way around this. We have the stuff pulled out as far as we can. Heat in the house isn't too much of a problem. This is one reason we're debating heating systems, one option is to go with radiant keeping with an oil boiler. The bottoms have carpet that goes very slightly up the wall, but these baseboards seem higher then the older ones in our last house. If I lay on the ground there is quite a bit of clearance from the floor and carpet to the pipes/fins. I know we shouldn't have stuff in front of them, but there it really no where else to put stuff. It's blocked by the TV and bookcases, nothing upholstered.

Could the cold today be setting off a boost even if we don't have this module? It's about 14 outside right now!!! Yeah 30 degrees below normal for today!! I'm kind of getting what you mean, it raises the high limit to compensate for the colder outside weather, and since the burner will be on longer and more frequently it thinks it needs to raise this temp. higher then the 180 (185) it's set to) but if this module isn't hooked up to the 1 or 2 terminals, why is it trying to boost?

Now is this totally wrong, one person I spoke to about this suggested getting thermostat wires and putting them on these two terminals and connecting them with a nut. This way it sees something there, but sees it's not connected to anything. This seems weird to me, but who knows with this thing any more. The oil company guy said this might make it run constantly. But I'm starting to not trust these guys.
 
  #46  
Old 03-04-14, 08:57 AM
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Now is this totally wrong, one person I spoke to about this suggested getting thermostat wires and putting them on these two terminals and connecting them with a nut. This way it sees something there, but sees it's not connected to anything. This seems weird to me,...
and well it should ... seem weird that is...

What are this "one person's" qualifications?

What "...two terminals..." was this suggestion referring to?
 
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Old 03-04-14, 09:03 AM
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he knows a bit of HVAC stuff. Not enough to be a pro. Not enough for us to trust this suggestion.

the 1 and 2 terminals, there this supposed ODM is wired into.
 
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Old 03-04-14, 09:34 AM
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No, don't do that. Those are not 'contacts' to be shorted, they are DIGITAL COMMUNICATION lines that this control uses to 'talk to' other components.

The reason I asked about the baseboard dust/furniture is because you said that the boiler routinely goes up to 180F. If the heat EMITTERS can not EMIT, then the heat will be slow to enter the home, the thermostat won't satisfy quickly, the boiler will run hotter than it needs to for longer periods of time.

Many homes have 'just enough' baseboard to counter the heat loss and the boiler will NORMALLY run up to high limit on a heat call. Some (mine, Mike's...others) have MORE baseboard and the boiler never gets that hot because it doesn't need to...

You would be surprised how much difference even a light coating of dust can make on the heat output of a baseboard system.

When you pull the covers, pay particular attention to the BOTTOMS of the fins because that is where the dust collects...
 
  #49  
Old 03-04-14, 09:58 AM
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GG,
As far as trooper assessment of my misunderstanding of the instructions, I distinctly asked questions and explained the settings that were currently used.
Directly asked from 11 to 6 and the answer was YES.

Got off the phone with H.W. just now and yesterdays response solved the problem 99.8% of the time.
He said there's nothing more they can do without being on the job sight and physically seeing what's there and contacting him from the sight with the menu pulled up.

Apparently it does have to do with the boost feature that he believes can possibly be pulled up on the menu but will not explain until on sight.

He did say they've had issues with this control but were able to be solved in most cases. This control is OEM which is no longer being made. The L7224U is the universal replacement now.

If you want to pursue this with H.W. the number is. 1-877-841-2840.
The first tech was Scott. The second was Drake, but they won't talk to anyone but a tech on the sight so they can walk you through this, so use your own discretion. (They can't see you through the phone).
 
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Old 03-04-14, 10:07 AM
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Ok we'll clean them real well.

As for the aquatsat reading this error my husband thinks it's a chip or something in the mother board (or whatever it's called on these compared to a computer) he thinks it's screwed up and it'll cost WAY to much to get the computer part worked on and he says he just wants a new one.

I asked about the diff and he said our original plumber (who is not calling back even though he was supposed to hook up a new aquastat for us back in jan) said that the reason we were having problems getting more hot water for the bath was that the diff was too high (it was 15+ at the time I think) he set it to 10 my husband moved it up to 11 to help it from short cycling. Moving this down DID give us more hot water. I do still have to turn it off and on 3 times to fill the tub though. When it's calling for heat and the boiler is on it'll get very hot and stay hot, but that's not going to help us in summer when the heat part is off.

And now this is the diff on the low, not the high. That one doesn't come up when I scroll through the settings. Is there a difference in this situation?

As for the house heating up, on warmer days (like in the mid-upper 20's) it'll go from 62/63 to 67/68 in about 30-45 mins or so, colder days (like yesterdays 10-19) it takes more like 2 hours. So I assume we have enough baseboards. Maybe I'm wrong? The one in the living room is about 15', the one on the inside wall is 8', the dining room (which the living/dining/kitchen is one room) is 8', the bath is 5', the bedroom is 14.5' and the second bedroom is maybe 12'. So they're not small, for the most part they take up the entire wall they're on aside from the bathroom. The boiler at the smallest nozzle or whatever is 75000 and the largest is 126000 (not sure which they used), the house is 984sqft. Do you think these are ok? Aside from the leaks we're going to fix this spring and adding insulation it's a fairly tight house.
 
  #51  
Old 03-04-14, 10:16 AM
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spott the problem is our diff won't go to 6, it'll only down one to 10. And the err 10 came on again this morning after we lowered the diff to 10 and raised the high to 185.

our settings as I posted in the first post are this

bt- 190
HL-180
LL-152
LdF-11
tt-On
ttE-off
duu-off
ASC-off
bSP-180*
dhc-no

the only one of these numbers that states anything about the boost is the bSP, which shouldn't show up at all unless that module is hooked up. The other ones say off, like the ttE and duu and ASC.

Now like NJ Trooper says the boost will raise the temp 10 degrees. When the boiler (burner) turns off at 180 like I assume it should, it will keep going up to 190. (now that it's 185 it goes to 194) Is this the boost doing this, or is there no boost since we don't have this outdoor module? Or is it just the boiler going up higher then the limit because that's what it does?

Again the owner who installed it (had it installed???) put in a Peerless because it's a good brand, but he oversized it I think. So could the oversize be an issue and cause the aquastat to malfunction?

And you're right I called honeywell before I even came here and they said it's a pro aquastat and they wouldn't help me at all. They couldn't even say what the error 10 means. Don't blame them completely since they don't want someone like me who knows nothing about this to blow myself up, but at least explain it to me so I can explain it to the local contractors since even their oil companies they deal with don't know anything about it. I've had to explain it to the local guys and they still don't know.
 
  #52  
Old 03-04-14, 10:23 AM
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Directly asked from 11 to 6 and the answer was YES.
That's interesting because as I recall on my own control the range is from 10 to 30, and GG said they can't set less than 10 on theirs either. Do the tech support people not know this?

How can setting a smaller diff cause LESS cycling?

Oh... I just remembered after GG reminded... there is NO ADJUSTMENT for the HIGH DIFF on her model aquastat. Only DIFF adjustment is the LOW DIFF.

Spott, I think that you're getting a 'snow job' from HW on this one.
 
  #53  
Old 03-04-14, 10:32 AM
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T,
I explained everything to them that you stated and he didn't have an answer, and basically said
Conversation over until called from the sight and would be happy to continue from there.

I'm sure you've heard the expression. DON'T SHOOT THE MESSANGER!!
Some days it just doesn't pay to get up.
 
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Old 03-04-14, 10:46 AM
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Is this the boost doing this, or is there no boost since we don't have this outdoor module? Or is it just the boiler going up higher then the limit because that's what it does?
I don't think the boost is active at all. You are right, you don't have that feature because you don't have the ODR module installed.

The temperature going above the setpoint may be only occurring AFTER the heat call has ended and the water has stopped circulating. This is what I call 'heat soak', and it happens because the heat that is in the cast iron continues to transfer to the water after the burner and circulator has stopped. This is normal and happens to all boilers.

So could the oversize be an issue and cause the aquastat to malfunction?
I don't think so.
 
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Old 03-04-14, 10:46 AM
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so all day today it's been acting up slightly. The t-stat will say heat is on, it'll turn on with the bt at 174, then it'll run about 20-30 secs and the t-stat will shut off and the boiler will shut off. Why does it keep cutting on right before the t-stat shuts off? the temp on the t-stat doesn't change during this.

Basically what I'm getting from all this is toss this thing and buy a new one? That no one can really help me fix a motherboard problem, that not even honeywell can tell me why it's doing this. So that even though it seems to be working otherwise, it's not really since something somewhere in the chips it's messed up and I have to toss it. This is kind of why we want an older style, not electrical. No one can really tell me how it works and what's wrong with it. An older one and I can have almost any joe-schmoe plumber out here and it'll be fixed in a few minutes. I think until the contractors around here can get better updates we should stick with more simple stuff.

But NJTrooper, do my baseboards sound ok from my other post? I'd really love to not have stuff in front of them, but there is NO other way. I'm hoping that if we stick with oil, we'll upgrade to radiant so we don't have to worry, but that's probably 3-5 years from now, unless we have bigger issues with the system.
 
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Old 03-04-14, 10:47 AM
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I'm sure you've heard the expression. DON'T SHOOT THE MESSANGER!!
Some days it just doesn't pay to get up.
I hear ya buddy! My aim is true, and not at you! No worries!
 
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Old 03-04-14, 10:49 AM
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Is this the boost doing this, or is there no boost since we don't have this outdoor module? Or is it just the boiler going up higher then the limit because that's what it does?
I don't think the boost is active at all. You are right, you don't have that feature because you don't have the ODR module installed.

The temperature going above the setpoint may be only occurring AFTER the heat call has ended and the water has stopped circulating. This is what I call 'heat soak', and it happens because the heat that is in the cast iron continues to transfer to the water after the burner and circulator has stopped. This is normal and happens to all boilers.

So could the oversize be an issue and cause the aquastat to malfunction?
I don't think so.
ok good thanks! I assumed it was something like that where it gets to the high limit shuts off but the heat transfers. We've never had an electronic aquastat before so you don't see the numbers so I wasn't sure. But I did assume correctly.
 
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Old 03-04-14, 03:34 PM
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do my baseboards sound ok from my other post? I'd really love to not have stuff in front of them, but there is NO other way.
OK? from what you've said, I suppose that they are...

Furniture in front is inevitable. As long as there is airflow UNDER the furniture and out the top, above the piece, you will still get the 'convective' heat of the air passing over the fins, but you lose the 'radiant' component, which isn't that much to start with, so not a great loss. Big sofas can impede air flow somewhat because they are usually pushed against the wall and have sloped backs, but the heated air can usually 'spill' out the sides.

The worst thing for them is WTW carpeting blocking the airflow in on the bottom.

On a slightly 'too much information' point, in my bedroom I've got a chest of drawers up against a section of baseboard. I keep my ummmm... 'unmentionables' in the bottom drawer. I do have to say that it's nice to slip on a pair of preheated undies on a cold morning!
 
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Old 03-04-14, 03:47 PM
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Our bathroom has these shelves on the one wall, which is the wall to the boiler closet. We can't store anything there due to the heat that transfers through. Not hot, but warm enough to make some things separate. But we keep tp and toothbrushes etc... So a friend said it's going to cause a new craze, heated tp, just like heated towels! Might catch on!? Heated undies would be nice though!! On cold days I run my outfit through the drier quick to warm it up!

In the living room is the 15' heater which has the TV, two small bookcase and two lamps. But all have openings on the bottom and are only about 30" tall, so I'm not too worried there. I do worry about the heat damaging the books. In the dining room there is a bookcase which is tall and big, but the cabinet is open at the bottom and is narrow so air can get around everything fairly well. None of the others are really covered.

So another question... sorry it's like asking a dr tons of questions because they're nice enough to answer them for you!!! How can I figure out our heat loss and see what size boiler we need (btu) and if we have enough feet of baseboards? Is there some calculator online that we can use?

Thanks!!
 
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Old 03-04-14, 03:55 PM
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No problem with the questions GG, as long as you don't mind me abbreviating your name!

How can I figure out our heat loss and see what size boiler we need (btu) and if we have enough feet of baseboards? Is there some calculator online that we can use?
At the top of the forum is a link to some software downloads, I believe one of them is a phone app... the Slant/Fin program is the one I usually use... too much the Luddite for a smart phone!

It would probably take a couple hours to measure up and enter the data into the program.

You'll get a room by room and a total estimate. Not familiar with the phone app, but the S/F program will tell you how much BB should be installed in each room.

Give it a shot!

Tell us how many square feet your home is, I would like to compare my 'rule of thumb' SWAG to what the program tells you...
 
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Old 03-04-14, 04:11 PM
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Shocking to some, but we don't own a cell phone. But if it'll work on a computer I'll try it.

Our house is 984sqft total I think this includes the closets (laundry and HVAC) and bathrooms.
 
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Old 03-04-14, 04:26 PM
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wow our internet is slow, but I didn't think it was THAT slow, it's saying it'll take 4 hours to download! Anything else to try?
 
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Old 03-04-14, 05:17 PM
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Our house is 984sqft total
OK, my SWAG is going to be around 30K BTUH. +/- 10%

it's saying it'll take 4 hours to download!
HUH? You aren't still on a 'dial-up' connection, are you?

I just started the d/l here and it's telling me 1 hour, but it seems to be going faster than that, 4 minutes elapsed in 1 ... oops, no, it slowed down again... no, there it goes faster... my neighbor must be downloading porn again. Ughhh, now it's stuck at 48 minutes.

You didn't click on the Honeywell app, did you? You went for the Slant-Fin Heat Loss Explorer, right?

The program is a 172 Megabyte download. Should not take 4 hours!

I would 'zip' it and email it to you... might be able to compress it a bit by zipping, still could take a while though... but no email addresses allowed in public forum! I'll send you a Private Message.

Still stuck at 46 minutes!
 
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Old 03-05-14, 06:11 AM
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replied to your pm. I found another one online that you didn't have to download and it gave me about 25000-26000 btuh, so it's fairly close. But as I said our boiler is 75000, 104000, 126000. Does this mean it's 3 times bigger then it needs to be??? Do they make boilers that are this small? Our closet is about 37" wide by 47" deep. So there is not much clearance.

My husband turned down the HL back to 180 and switched the diff to 15 for now. He didn't want to go too high on it due to the hot water issue with the tub. Yes I know tubs are bad. They have a high flow which makes the hot water run down quicker. This is probably the main reason for this problem. I'm waiting to hear form our heating guy if they run acid through the coils any more or not. Not sure if that'll help, or just do nothing for the hot water at this point. I hope this guy has some ideas about the future of what can be done in this house. We originally thought we could ditch the softener and put a HWH in it's space. But I guess the village water is even harder then every other house we've lived in in this area.
 
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Old 03-05-14, 08:04 AM
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Oh I'm such a pain, I know.

I got a quote of $400 installed for a new aquastat. Seems a tad high. Our oil company said they could do it for $255 plus $89 labor. I would think oil companies would charge more?

Now if our heat loss is 30k BTUH then what should we consider for a boiler? I can't find one smaller then 75k. Are oil boilers an overkill with this house then? No gas here. I'd rather stick with oil over LP as prices here are going crazy. They're so high right now electric seems the best. I'm still wondering if electric with an electric tank HWH would be best, and use the wood stove more.
 
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Old 03-05-14, 09:28 AM
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GG, I'm SURE that your hubby can install the new aquastat in about ten minutes, maybe 15.

It's quite easy.

Problem with finding small output oil boilers is the physical constraints of the small NOZZLES required, for the most part.

Once the nozzles get that small, there is a much greater tendency toward clogging of the nozzles.

There are other combustion related reasons also...
 
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Old 03-05-14, 09:35 AM
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For our slightly unique situation would electric be better then?

As I stated I really don't like the boiler in the house. I'm fine with them in basements like we've always had them. But in the living space bothers me a bit. There doesn't seem to be enough clearance. They're loud. They smell. And with the softener having to stay we lost the spot where we were going to put the water heater to get off the coil.
 
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