error 10 on honeywell L7224 aquatsat please help!! No one seems to know what it

Reply

  #1  
Old 02-28-14, 02:18 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 48
error 10 on honeywell L7224 aquatsat please help!! No one seems to know what it

We bought our house the week of thanksgiving and have been having slight issues with this aquastat since. We had two error codes come up, error 1 which we had the sensor replaced and hasn't shown up since and error 10. Now I freely admit to not knowing much about this, but in my research I see that this is boost failure and to check the curve of the outdoor reset module. But I also see that the outdoor reset in wired into the 1, 2, and 3 terminals. Well the 3 terminal is shared with the thermostat wire too. So that one has a wire, but the other two don't. I don't see that module or the hot water module anywhere. I don't think we have it. So if we don't have it why is it reading this error?

I called the oil company we have our service contract through and they said they'll ask the honeywell rep who was supposed to be there yesterday. Never heard back. I've asked a few other people and even called honeywell. No one can tell me why it is doing this. Now it does still run while reading this error, and the only way we can clear it is to power the system down then turn it back on. It happens once or twice a week at the most. When it happens it short cycles for a couple minutes then stops then works ok, but reads the error. Meaning it turns on for 30 seconds then off for 20 sec, then on for 45 sec then off for 10, then on for 30 sec.

I'm talking with a plumber/heating guy about this and he suggests resetting the parameters and see if it fixes it. If not he'll come out and look. But so far no one even knows what an error 10 is, I have to tell them what I know?!?!?!

Just to see what they're currently reading until I can figure out (hopefully from you guys) how to reset these parameters I went through to see what everything is reading right now. Here's what I have:

bt- 190
HL-180
LL-152
LdF-11
tt-On
ttE-off
duu-off
ASC-off
bSP-180*
dhc-no

OK so the boiler goes up to 180 then cuts off but it heats up to 190 then starts cooling again. It cuts on at 169 again. Which I assume is working the way it should. But the * there for the bSP at 180 is a question. It states that "SETTINGS ARE VIEWABLE ONLY IF THE OUTDOOR RESET MODULE AND OUTDOOR TEMPERATURE SENSOR ARE INSTALLED AND FUNCTIONING PROPERLY." according to a pdf I found online. But in looking through these forums I see it can differ slightly depending on which revision you have??? Not sure how to tell but the gray box says L7224 and the sticker on the aquastat says L7224C Not U? Which is this different? I've only seen info on the U is there a big difference?

So what could be causing this to read this error?

For more info:
house is small 984sqft only 1 zone and we have a hot water coil (and watersoftener for the hard water)
boiler is Peerless WBV03
Burner is Beckett AGF series with genisys 7505?
there is a Taco 007-F5

we had it serviced in dec and according to other tags it has been serviced yearly.

I hope someone can help us!

Name:  P2275159.jpg
Views: 3868
Size:  39.5 KBName:  P2275160.jpg
Views: 3549
Size:  42.7 KBName:  P2275161.jpg
Views: 3205
Size:  40.7 KBName:  P2275166.jpg
Views: 3037
Size:  49.5 KB
 
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 02-28-14, 04:02 PM
Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: United States
Posts: 2,698
Upvotes Received: 11
GG,
System continues to run with outdoor reset parameters enabled as programmed. Error cleared automatically
This is what is says for error 10 code.

You're only using TT on your control. It might look like you're using #3 but it's one of the same terminal as TT.
You don't have an outdoor reset control because you have a tankless coil for hot water.
 
  #3  
Old 02-28-14, 04:33 PM
NJT's Avatar
NJT
NJT is offline
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 23,539
Upvotes Received: 1
There seems to be some conflicting info on the error messages, and I think we figured this out one time before but can't recall what we decided...

The first description says this:

Error condition 10*.
System continues to run with outdoor reset parameters enabled as programmed. Error cleared automatically.

* Error condition only available when the Outdoor Reset Module is installed.
And the second one says this:

Err 10(*a) Warning:

Boost Failure; Boost Mode active at least once per cycle for the last 60
consecutive cycles. Check Outdoor Reset curve settings.

(*a) Warnings are generated to enunciate the system is not operating optimally, but the Aquastat is still operating and maintaining boiler temperature. In the instance where an Outdoor Reset Module is used, the warnings may indicate a reset curve setting error one or more features is not running optimally, and the Aquastat is reverting to default settings or has stopped running the Outdoor Reset algorithms. The warnings are cleared when the issue(s) is resolved.
As Spott said, you do NOT have the Outdoor Reset Module installed, so I have to question why you are even seeing this error code?

Somehow it appears that your unit 'thinks' that there is an ODR module installed.
 
  #4  
Old 02-28-14, 05:06 PM
Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Southeastern Pennsylvania
Posts: 2,947
I’m not an expert. What confuses me is that the L7224C1004 (which the tag in your pics clearly shows) seems to be a control for a high limit:

https://customer.honeywell.com/en-US...ath=1.2.27.5.7

Yet the L7224 display you get (post #1) clearly shows a low limit, which makes sense since you have the tankless coil. Maybe I’m not understanding what Honeywell means (link above) when they say L7224C1004 is a “High Limit” controller?
 
  #5  
Old 02-28-14, 05:30 PM
Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Southeastern Pennsylvania
Posts: 2,947
I don’t want to run off on a tangent here (not too much danger, the guys here can spot that in a heartbeat) but it looks like your L7224 has nothing connected to the B1 and B2 terminals? Maybe my bad. But then where would the connection to the burner be?
 
  #6  
Old 02-28-14, 05:34 PM
NJT's Avatar
NJT
NJT is offline
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 23,539
Upvotes Received: 1
I've taken to not letting anything that Honeywell says or does confuse me. If it starts to, I dismiss it and forget about it.

Honeywell has gotten WAY above their raisin'. Too big for their britches.

They are TOTALLY out of control with firmware changes to the 7224 product line and no 'revision history' to show for it.

How is one to know what the he77 they've got?

Case in point, GardenGirl... she knows she's got an aquastat, but how is she supposed to determine what features her particular model has, or does not have? The only manual that Honey offers is the latest one.

Ooops, I'm on my soapbox again... sorry... [stepping down]
 
  #7  
Old 02-28-14, 05:36 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 48
See THAT'S what I don't get?!?!? We don't have this, so why are we getting this error????

And no even though it says it'll clear itself it never does. As I said we have to shut power down to the whole system and turn it back on to reboot it. Unless it clears itself and we don't notice it, like if we're not home. But I'm home all day. I'd notice those very obvious short cycles it does when it checks itself and then goes into this error.

I asked honeywell, they couldn't help me at all. I asked a plumber, he doesn't know anything about this aquastat and wanted me to buy the non-computer one that my husband knows better. I talked to the oil company and they have no clue. Not even the service manager. The more recent plumber/heating guy doesn't know yet, but I've only quickly talked to him. He suggested resetting the system back to what it came with, but I'm not sure how to do this? No one can tell us why we're getting an error for something we don't have. In my research I've seemed to have found more info the most of the local people know about this, which really worries me! ha ha!!

Yeah the #3 is also a t terminal and is being used. But I think both have to be used right? But the other 2 are empty. Even though they're empty I still looked all over to see if there was a module outside or even inside somewhere and there isn't. And yes we have a coil, no DHW module.

My husband has said he heard there is a high return rate on these, that people don't like them. But they seem popular. I'm not sure?

One thing is we've already spent too much money on it, we could replace it if we spend another $100 on having a plumber come out again with how much it's cost us in 3 months. My husband said if it's going to be that much more we should just buy the older style triple aquastats that he knows how to run. The sad part is otherwise this works well. In this horrid cold winter we've only gone through 300 gal, and I keep it at 69 all day every day and 62-63 a night. With it being below zero some nights and highs in the teens that's not too awful!

So any more thoughts??
 
  #8  
Old 02-28-14, 05:42 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 48
NJ T that's my understanding from the research I've done that since I didn't buy this, and have no clue when it was put it in I can't say what revision it is. All the info I've found has similar info but slightly different. I'm not sure what I'm supposed to have for readings? Like why don't we have HdF? Why is the bSP showing 180? What does that mean when we don't even have the outdoor module? That isn't supposed to even show up!

See how much I "know" about this??? I never even heard of the word aquastat 3 months ago! I thought a boiler was all one thing, not a boiler, burner, Taco (whatever the he77 that does???!!!) hot water coils etc....
 
  #9  
Old 02-28-14, 05:53 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 48
ok according to this thing you showed it also has a fixed 10 diff, which is NOT true on ours. We currently have it set to 11.

We have things set a bit different trying to get hot water to act right. I have severe health issues so I take a lot of hot baths, which we have a deep tub (lucky me!!!) and I have to turn the water all to hot, then turn it off as it cools and the boiler cuts on, once it's up to temp I turn it back on and keep filling until it gets cool and then repeat one more time. Of course if the heat is on it give priority to the water and I can't get it cool enough! See I never knew a boiler would give preference to water until recently! I'm learning so much. Just not why this thing is acting screwy! I did think about posting on another forum but emailed them instead and he kind of freaked out telling us not to do anything and to call a pro, but this isn't an emergency type situation, or anything that will affect CO that I can tell. I know he's saving his butt, but if it's an easy fix then I think my husband can't figure it out, he did HVAC stuff growing up, but we're talking 20+ years ago stuff, not this computer stuff. Which is partly why he's thinking of doing a "downgrade" to a non-computer older style aquastat.
 
  #10  
Old 02-28-14, 05:58 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 48
OK so the wires going into the burner are connected to B1, L1, and L2 and the green is the ground I assume? There is nothing in B2
 
  #11  
Old 02-28-14, 06:14 PM
Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: United States
Posts: 2,698
Upvotes Received: 11
All you need is TT on the control. The other terminals according to the wiring schematic are for an outdoor reset which you don't have.
As far as your hot water going cool, that may be a coil issue. They're not the greatest source of hot water especially if you need a lot in a short amount of time. They do lime up and over a period of time produce less hot water because of this.

As far as no wire on B2, I don't know why they just didn't use the terminal but the have it bundled in maybe with the wire nut or somewhere else but it is connected or the motor would not run.

L1 & L2 power up the control. B1 & B2 power up the burner motor. B2 is tied in somewhere.
 

Last edited by spott; 02-28-14 at 06:31 PM.
  #12  
Old 02-28-14, 06:30 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 48
It does still run, but keeps the error message up. Not sure how long it'll do this as we've never let it go longer then about 30 min before we shut off the power. So it's not a major problem, which is another reason we don't want to spend tons of money to fix it. But it's an annoyance since it does short cycle very badly for a bit before it starts running right again.

I'd rather just not get this error. But I don't think there is a solution.

edit:

yes the hot water is mostly fine for dishes and laundry and showers as they are mostly lower flow. But the water really comes out of the faucet and fills the tub rather quickly. I think it just can't keep up, our water coming in must be fairly cold right now. I take fairly hot showers and the water never even cools and I'm talking about a 10 min shower or so, not some ridiculous 3 min thing! ha ha!! While it's a pain in the butt, I don't mind it.

and yes we did try to turn the water softener off to see how bad it gets, and it gets BAD!!! So we do need it. It's back on now and everything has clears up well. The one plumber said he could run acid through it to delime it, but I think it's ok. It's just way too much demand in a too short of period. Otherwise it does work good enough.
 
  #13  
Old 02-28-14, 06:46 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 48
Looking again there is no wire on B2. Is this bad? It is presently running, so I assume it's working. But is it not ideal?

The owner who sold it to us did NOTHING to keep up the house aside from getting the boiler cleaned and the lawn mowed. She was clean, but that's about it. The guy before her was a weekend DIYer who had some knowledge but not a lot. My husband and I come from families who do electrical, woodworking, plumbing and heating etc... So we have basic knowledge but again not a lot. But enough to know what this other guys did wrong, we've been fixing lots of stuff, like bad wiring etc... So I'm assuming he put this aquastat in himself, that might be why it's working, but not working correctly. He kind of did things basically just to get them to work, not to work right. But it has been all fixable.

But dealing with a small house and no basement we have the boiler on the first floor which is really not ideal, we've been talking about what to maybe do to make it better, or maybe switch out to a different heating system. We're just not sure. I just hate the upkeep. It's like mowers (silly comparison I'm sorry) but gas is oil changes, lubing parts, dealing with ethanol screwing everything up etc... we mow have an electric mower. Cheaper to buy. cheaper to run and almost no upkeep. I like the idea of electric baseboard heat. Reasonably cheap to install, and basically no upkeep. Sound nice. Expensive but nice. But with oil prices our seemingly low usage is still costing us $400 a month, we have a friend with electric baseboard who spends the same amount. We also have a wood stove, which we'd supplement to keep costs down. ??? Not sure yet though. sorry to ramble so much!!
 
  #14  
Old 02-28-14, 06:53 PM
Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: United States
Posts: 2,698
Upvotes Received: 11
GG,
Rambling is good for the soul sometimes. Post #11 as far as B2 goes.
Sent you message instead of taking all the space.
 
  #15  
Old 02-28-14, 07:01 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 48
getting info for spott I saw a sticker on the side which might have a year, it says honeywell and 2004 next to it. So I know the date on the boiler says 2001, then the aquatstat is from 2004. Not sure why it was switched out so soon. Our not so knowledgeable oil company guy said the boiler is oversized for the house, but it's the smallest peerless you can buy. Not sure how true this is? But I do think it's too big, it does short cycle occasionally but it has been a lot less with the new sensor. He thinks the guy just wanted "the best" so I assume that's why he updated the aquastat when it probably wasn't needed. rambling again. I do this a lot. sorry.
 
  #16  
Old 02-28-14, 07:56 PM
Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Southeastern Pennsylvania
Posts: 2,947
Correction. As I posted it is true that Honeywell calls the L7224C1004 a “High Limit” Controller:

https://customer.honeywell.com/en-US...ath=1.2.27.5.7

but then when you look at page 5 of the manual for the L7224C1004:
https://customer.honeywell.com/resou...68-0281EFS.pdf

it clearly says the L7224C has a low limit setting? Maybe the Honeywell folks are schizoids? LOL

I agree with spott:

GG,
Rambling is good for the soul sometimes.
IMHO because you just have what seems to be proper connections to that aquastat, and it is acting plumb loco, and everyone you talk to, including Honeywell, wants to run away from it, IMHO you have no choice but to replace it. It makes sense IMHO to drop back to a non-computer model as you are contemplating, because as Trooper points out:
Honeywell has gotten WAY above their raisin'. Too big for their britches.

They are TOTALLY out of control with firmware changes to the 7224 product line and no 'revision history' to show for it.

How is one to know what the he77 they've got?

Case in point, GardenGirl... she knows she's got an aquastat, but how is she supposed to determine what features her particular model has, or does not have? The only manual that Honey offers is the latest one.



p.s. I have nothing against computers. I was a software guy for well over 30 years. But it seems like Honeywell is selling mystery modules. (However, I do I have an L7224U working without problems.)
 
  #17  
Old 03-01-14, 07:38 AM
NJT's Avatar
NJT
NJT is offline
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 23,539
Upvotes Received: 1
IMHO you have no choice but to replace it. It makes sense IMHO to drop back to a non-computer model as you are contemplating
Agreed. If it 'thinks' it has an ODR attached and it does not, clearly there is something wrong with it.

I would not give up on electronics though. I would seriously consider the Hydrostat 3250. I don't know that they're any better with revision control though...
 
  #18  
Old 03-01-14, 08:55 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 48
So what non-computer aquastat do you guys recommend? My husband knows the basic ins and outs of the "dumb" ones, so it'll be easier for him to work on if anything happens. Plus that'll make the local plumbers and the oil company happier to not have to troubleshoot this damn thing. The repair guy said they've replaced a LOT of sensors on this model recently. He said they all seem to be having troubles.

sigh. Well we've already spent $200 on it and we don't want to spend much more. The new guy I've been talking to says he charges $69 for the initial visit and $99 an hour, but we'll work something out. We may go with him as our plumber and he knows we need other work done (like this same crazy previous owner when he put in the water softener has the outside spigot on it!!????) My husband knows plumbing but not pipe welding. So I assume he'll work a deal to get more business. So instead of paying more into trying to fix this one, we'll just see about getting a new one. Again any recommendations for a simple one? Again we have the domestic coil and only 1 zone for heat since it's such a small house we're not interested in doing two zones. I assume just one to do high low and diff and that's it will be fine right? Does any of the other stuff really save money? I was told you can add all kinds of stuff on to help save money, but if it's hundreds more it'll take many years to make up the cost savings. We're not sure of our long term plans for heating the house. While I'd love to just go to simple electric baseboards, I'm not sure that's the best thing. People get scared when looking to buy a house with electric heat, but if it's cheaper then the price of oil right now, it would be a better option. But this will be a 5-10 year plan for us. Nothing we can afford right now.
 
  #19  
Old 03-01-14, 09:14 AM
NJT's Avatar
NJT
NJT is offline
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 23,539
Upvotes Received: 1
The repair guy said they've replaced a LOT of sensors on this model recently. He said they all seem to be having troubles.
I've seen no evidence of that... doesn't mean it's not true, just another perspective.

The new guy I've been talking to says he charges $69 for the initial visit and $99 an hour, but we'll work something out.
Replacing an aquastat is quite easy for a reasonably accomplished DIYer.

If yer hell bent on going back to electromechanical, then one of these is the one you would want:

L8124 aquastat

These are the Hydrostat models I like:

Hydrostat 3250 aquastat

(like this same crazy previous owner when he put in the water softener has the outside spigot on it!!????)
There may be a reason for that... if you have high iron content, you don't want to use the non-softened water in the yard... terrible stains on anything that water dries on.

Does any of the other stuff really save money?
It can, but don't be snowed by claims of 20% ... let common sense prevail.

You would probably do well to find another way to heat your domestic hot water. The tankless coil method is the next step up from a kettle on a wood stove.

Depending on your electricity cost, a simple electric water heater might save you some money.
 
  #20  
Old 03-01-14, 09:44 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 48
Ok so here's our problems/ideas/etc....

-live in zone 5
-the house was built in 1986 and is 984sqft single story two bedrooms main room has cathedral ceilings
-it's surrounded by shrubs and trees so only the roof gets the real strong winds
-windows seem fairly new
-doors main door is newish slider is slightly leaky but we will buy a good curtain for it
-this spring we plan on adding more insulation in the attic and caulking around everything else (currently the attic has about R18 we need R38) but otherwise the house seems quite tight aside from the bathroom window and the access panel to the tub, the tub seems cold though so we'll be insulating that too
-the basement is a poured crawlspace with vents which we'll seal and then add a dehumidifier as there are some slight drainage issues in the village
-the boiler is on the first floor between the kitchen and bathroom, taking up VERY valuable space and is loud. My husband added stuff around the door and it knocked the decibels down, but it still wakes you up at night.
-across the hall from this is the laundry closet, has stackable washer and dryer and the water softener
-no room at all for a tank for the hot water, a tankless that I was looking at uses 2-3 50amps spots in the panel, our panel is only 150amps we have room but not that much room

Now due to the size of the house the boiler is oversized, I guess he wanted a peerless no matter what. The tank is outside due to the house being built around the other one, we had to have it cut in half to get it out of the house.

The plot/lot we have is small with fairly close neighbors who seem concerned about how things look, so we really can't put too much out there, like a mini-split there imply isn't good space for it.

We don't want to spend a ton of money on a more expensive aquastat because we're unsure we want to keep the oil heat. I know oil has a "better" warmth to it, but we've lived in houses with it that were miserably cold and houses with electric baseboard that were always toasty. Our thought, better insulation and better caulking etc... is better then the type of heat you have.

We also have a small wood stove that when it's going heats up 90% of the house well. The other colder spots only feel cold because the main room feels so warm. The "cold" rooms are still about 68. This year we only moved in in nov so we didn't pre-order any wood. Next year we plan on getting at minimum a cord. When we have the fire going pretty good we go through about 5 pieces over a 12 hour period. It's fairly efficient

Now we've been going back and forth about how best to heat the house. While I like"d" the idea of oil, it's getting expensive. Personally I love the idea of low upkeep and maintenance, this is why electric baseboard is so appealing to me. We hire our electrician friend to install the wiring, my husband can do the rest. It won't cost that much. Another friend says he pays $400-600 a month in winter, but his house is more then double the size of ours. We'd also have the wood stove to supplement. Our fear in this is selling it. We'd keep the pipes in the crawlspace so if they next owner wants oil/propane baseboard they can. But again we JUST bought this house, we plan on being here for many years. We bought it with the idea that as my health gets worse having smaller land and smaller house with easy access to laundry, bathroom etc... we won't need to worry about retrofitting anything.

We're not comfortable with propane. Unreasonable I know, it's just how we are. No gas here, but again we'd rather not use that. Geo-thermal isn't possible with the lot we have, solar is out due to the trees, and I want privacy after 10 years of living in the country living in the village is hard. So really I think electric is the way to go. And yes I think baseboard would be better then a heat pump, due to the lack of space inside and out.

Do you think electric will hurt resale? We do plan on staying for the long term, so I really don't care about price increase or decrease too much as who knows what will happen there. It's more will it scare potential buyers off completely? What if we prove it's cheap? Like showing them bills and how well insulated everything is. We also like the idea of choosing to buy greener electricity. any thoughts or suggestions?
 
  #21  
Old 03-01-14, 09:47 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 48
Oh to add to that with the electric heat we could shrink the HVAC closet a bit and actually use it a bit and put an electric water heater there. Otherwise there is no room for one currently, and as I said we don't have the panel space for a tankless. But if we pay to expand to 200amps, then we might go tankless and electric heat.
 
  #22  
Old 03-01-14, 10:32 AM
BillD27's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 27
GG I have an L7248C with an outdoor reset. It is the cold start verison of your L7224C. I have been very satisfied with it.
As I understand error 10, it is telling us that the outdoor reset is not operating properly so the boiler will continue to run as if the reset were not there. Except for the fact that the aquastat is showing an error 10 on the display, I see no emergency. If all functions of the control (independent of error display) are running your boiler as expected then where is the problem -at least through the balance of this heating season.
I did see that your readings show a bSP (boiler set point) of 180. My instructions say that should only be viewable if Outdoor Reset is installed. If you don't already have them, the Insatllatiion Instructions Google Honeywell 68-0281-05.
 
  #23  
Old 03-01-14, 11:06 AM
Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Southeastern Pennsylvania
Posts: 2,947
GG I don’t think you have to spend a ton of money to handle that aquastat problem. As Trooper says they really are very easy to replace.

I would think that you husband would not have a problem replacing it. You just make sure the power is OFF, and disconnect the wires from the old aquastat labeling each so you can connect them to the proper terminals on the new aquastat. I’ve done it twice. It really isn’t a very difficult job.

If that aquastat is so confused that it thinks an ODR is connected to it, I wouldn’t trust it too far to do anything correctly. However, Bill is actually probably correct when he says:

…Except for the fact that the aquastat is showing an error 10 on the display, I see no emergency. If all functions of the control (independent of error display) are running your boiler as expected then where is the problem -at least through the balance of this heating season.
but as a (real) old software guy LOL, I get real nervous when software(firmware here) is really confused. Just me!

Converting to electric. I was fantasizing about that myself. Oil has outpaced the historic 3.1 % annual inflation rate by a whopping amount. Where is the limit? LOL I guess you have to do a very careful and thorough analysis to make that decision.

I know my sister and her husband about 15 years ago had a small but well made electric heat house in the Poconos. They were only there on the weekends. Can’t remember the numbers but I think the electric bill would knock you off your feet.LOL
 
  #24  
Old 03-01-14, 12:11 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 48
That's why I'm somewhat hesitant to have it fixed. It's already had two errors in the three months we've been here. I'd rather replace it. My husband wants to toss it. He is getting frustrated with, hence the reason I'm here not him! ha ha!!! His friend, who also knows a lot about HVAC stuff said take a hammer to it! ha! So yeah, we're going to try to make it through the rest of this heating season and see where to go from there. It does have the coil, so it will be running year round, which makes us nervous. No it's not an emergency. No it doesn't REALLY need to be fixed as once it figures out it can't fix the error on it's own, like it's supposed to, it just keeps working. But again, if something is screwy and no one can explain why, it might just be better to replace it. Now if this was a guitar pedal or computer my husband could fix it blindfolded, but not this.

I would replace it with another electronic but again if we go with a different heating system I don't want to spend more then we really have to. And if at some point we decide to go with a better boiler then we'd just get everything together as a set-up. I probably wouldn't keep something unless it was fairly new and still working like new. Sounds stupid I know. But it's like having a 15 year old car with 10 year old parts and putting a new $2000 blah blah on it when it's only worth $1000, when you plan on maybe buying a new one in a couple years. When to keep it running you could spend $200. It just doesn't make sense unless you REALLY love that car!

Yes electric heat will be very expensive. We're prepared for that. But it's cleaner, nothing burning in the house (aside from the wood stove on colder days) it's quieter, and if a baseboard craps out on us, we run to home depot and buy a new one for $80. Cheaper then having a repair guy in. No service contracts. No oil companies telling us who we can buy oil from. No oil deliveries, or lack of deliveries. No oil tank to worry about. Our electric locally doesn't go up in price any where near what oil prices are. When we first went from an electric rental to an oil rental we were paying $.92 a gal, within 5 years that went to $3.50. Now it's over $4. On the pre-pay. Pay as they fill is even more. With the electric we'd supplement with wood more. We could zone a lot easier even though the layout of the house makes zoning kind of hard. Again we plan on tightening up everything, so even if we stick with oil, it'll go down in use a bit. It was a nasty winter. Was???? Yeah we're due for another storm tomorrow. It ain't over yet! But we paid over $400 for oil each month for only 300 gal total. I don't mind burning only 300 for a season, that's great considering how warm we keep it. But the price is low since we pre-paid. I have a feeling next season we can add about $.75+ to that price.

We worry more about resale. Electric scares people who don't know how efficient it can be when done right. Of course we don't plan on selling for 15+ years. Maybe not until we retire, which is the year we pay off the house. I don't see us moving any time soon. We're longer term people, we were in our last rentals for 8 years and 5 years. We've lived in this area basically since we moved out of our parents houses in the mid 90's. So who knows what will happen with fossil fuels and other heating sources in the next 10-15 years. Maybe things will change drastically one way or another and no matter what you have people will freak out about it. We expect our bills to be about $500 a month or so. Which with heat and electric included that's what we're paying right now. But we wouldn't have the service contracts and contractor bills with that. I would consider heat pumps, but again we don't have the inside or outside room. The side of the house things would have to go outside is only about 4.5' before you hit the tree line and the property line. With village rules, I'm not sure we could even put an AC unit out there.

We just don't know what to do. I wish the boiler was in the crawlspace, or we could rearrange things better. But as I said the house is 984sqft, this includes all spaces, the closets and the laundry closet and HVAC closet. Aside from the heating water issues it's really perfect for us. This is just the thorn in our sides right now. If it was super efficient, and took up a lot less space it would be fine. But we can't find local people who will work on the higher end boilers, let alone figure out how to pay $10000 for one! I guess the main problem is having it in the living space.
 
  #25  
Old 03-01-14, 01:51 PM
NJT's Avatar
NJT
NJT is offline
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 23,539
Upvotes Received: 1
I don't want to spend more then we really have to.
Did you click on the links I posted? If you had, you would have seen that the Hydrostat is $45 cheaper than the L8124.
 
  #26  
Old 03-01-14, 02:21 PM
Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Southeastern Pennsylvania
Posts: 2,947
GG-

Many years ago a high level executive from our company showed up at one of the in-house management training courses that was being given to the lower level engineering groups. I was in that course. Late in the day he got up in front of the class and stood on a chair and waved his arms wildly saying this:

“ I don’t care if you don’t remember my name, or if you don’t remember this date, or if you don’t remember this course, but remember this – if you think you have a plan it is not really a plan until you write it down”.
Because of his shocking presentation I did in fact remember what he said and I use it to this day. I was amazed at how many times, in work or at home, you think you have things planned or figured out, but only when you write down the plan do you get a surprise and find that there are major defects or deficiencies.

The reason I relate this is because it seems to me what you are mulling over has so many variables and is complex enough that IMHO you would be best to sit down and actually write down the pros/cons of staying with the same oil system, changing to a new oil system, converting to electric, estimating the projected rate of increase of oil and electric, making the house more efficient, reconfiguring the rooms, etc. IMHO you really should do that- I mean actually write it all down in its simplest terms. You might get a surprise.

That’s why I haven’t gone too far with thinking about getting rid of my oil system – I’m too lazy to think about it properly! LOL
 
  #27  
Old 03-01-14, 02:43 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 48
OK that made me laugh. Yes in an huge decision we do a pros and cons list. We've already started a basic one for this. But this is still 5 years off. We don't want to do anything too much until we've lived here for a few years to see where the houses strengths and weaknesses are. Do we need better windows in 2-3 years? Is it worth the cost compared to good caulking and maybe if they get leakier putting up plastic. Or hanging insulated curtains. How will next winter be compared to this winter in heating days below zero days etc... We don't want to make any decisions until we've been here longer. I'm anal about doing research and making sure what we do is right for us.

As for the hydrostat, how does that economy mode work? I find that when it's warmer out the the boiler cuts on less it makes me colder and I have to turn the heat up to make it cut on more. Will this be a problem in this mode? With my health I can't stand being too cold, it makes my muscles lock up and causes severe pain for me. Would it be better to keep it in a more normal mode? Is it really a lot less efficient that way? Not like me turning up the heat to 69 is being good any way!

And with saving money I was more so talking about all the stuff you can buy for boilers, and the L7224 is more expensive to do an even replacement rather then buying the other one. But I had not looked at either link yet. My husband was busy and I wanted him to look them up too, not just me. I'm more so talking about buying the outdoor reset or other things. I just don't want to invest in this boiler too much just yet. Who knows maybe it'll work out great and we will just keep the system and upgrade components as needed, then when the boiler goes upgrade that instead of getting a whole new system. We won't know yet. We just want good information from people who know what the he77 they're talking about so we can add that info to our research to make an educated decision instead of just getting a big boiler cause it'll heat better.
 
  #28  
Old 03-01-14, 03:01 PM
NJT's Avatar
NJT
NJT is offline
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 23,539
Upvotes Received: 1
Do we need better windows in 2-3 years?
Unless they are REALLY bad, windows ALMOST NEVER pay for themselves in under 10-15 years.

how does that economy mode work?
You mean 'how does it work' as in the technical meaning? or, 'how does it work' as in how WELL does it work?

If you don't like it, turn it off. It's still $45 cheaper!
 
  #29  
Old 03-01-14, 03:24 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 48
More so how well does it work. I see that it lowers the temp on warmer days, which worries me that the house will get too cold, but I also like the idea of the projected savings.

Also it seems more complicated. Is it fairly easy to set-up (not install) and to change settings. I see it has dials like the older style, and you don't have to go through menus, which is nice.

edit: and I know windows don't do much unless they're old. I was just going through things that people do, and sometimes do without thinking. Like adding insulation when you're just short a few inches. Since the cost won't offset the savings. I was stating that we need to live with the house for 1-2 years and see how everything is before jumping into anything really new or upgraded.
 
  #30  
Old 03-01-14, 06:16 PM
Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: United States
Posts: 2,698
Upvotes Received: 11
GG,
I think where you live kinda dictates what you use. In your case it sounds like you would want to keep it as simple as possible. The reason I came to that conclusion is that you seem to have a problem getting any updated tech service out there.
Although these controls advertise savings, are the savings enough to offset the headaches and discomfort of trying to find someone to service the stuff when needed.
In most instances you can get a second grader to install something but trying to get it serviced later is a whole other ballgame.
Unfortunately in our industry right now there are a lack of quality service techs. Everyone wants to get the fast money and good hours installing the new stuff and nobody wants to service anymore.
Oil companies only service their own customers which means you're paying top dollar for oil. If you can find a service company they only stock bare minimum parts and only common parts. So if want to go a little high tech to try an save a buck, you can't find anyone to service the thing so what are you saving.

Although electronics are obviously the future, even in our industry, after being years behind European technology and just now starting to advance, the manufacturers are trying to advance but the field training is just not keeping pace with the equipment being made.

Talk about rambling. As a contractor out in the country, with one supply house to deal with unless I go into the city which is about 20 miles away, I'm limited to what I install. The supply house only wants to stalk what the majority sells, so in that way I'm in the same boat you are. Although I could possibly save people money and put in better quality products, the area and other companies that don't want to try change dictates what I use, unless I want to carry a large inventory of stock just in case.

I could go on but at the end of the day, where you live, the area you're in, what type of service you have access to will determine what kind of equipment you use.
From what you have said, all indications say, go simple. Your husband has some knowledge and friends who can bail you out if need be when going simple. That puts you a step ahead of the common consumer who is dependent on someone who thinks he knows what he's doing and loves to charge high tech prices for in most cases low tech service.
 
  #31  
Old 03-02-14, 06:48 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 48
Oh thank you for this!!!!! I needed to hear that. Where we live everyone wants to go green. So it seems not many want to go higher tech with the oil/propane stuff. I've talked to 4 local plumbers and none know what error 10 even is. The one I called last, who we do seem to like so far, knew what the error 1 was, but didn't know how to fix an error 10 when there is no module. I think the computer part of it is too much for many people. They don't understand the glitches that can happen. Things used to be simpler and all mechanical. Now it's all electrical. It's like cars. Sure even I can work on a car that's older. All the mechanical stuff makes sense! Now, no way, I open the hood and have no clue what I'm looking at!

Then on top of this all the higher end stuff they up-charge like crazy! The plumber/heating guy I talked to and tried to help me the most also does the annual 24 hour service, so we might be looking into that. He said he can suggest about 3-4 different oil companies too and he said they typically charge $.40/gal less then the 4 big local companies.

Around here you can find 20 guys who can install super high efficiency oil/propane, geo-thermal, solar, wind etc... But try finding one who will trouble shoot! One local guy prides himself on fixing all the problems, but I'm not sure of his reputation. But again it's another area where it's all install and no repairs.

Please don't worry about the rambling!!! It really helped.
 
  #32  
Old 03-02-14, 07:18 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 48
There may be a reason for that... if you have high iron content, you don't want to use the non-softened water in the yard... terrible stains on anything that water dries on.
As for this, watering most of the plants we have/we're putting is, you really can't water with softened water. The sodium can be very harmful to most plants and even kill them and grass (we don't water grass though) and more delicate plants it'll just outright kill them quickly. Even the village water can be not ideal due to the stuff they put in it. I'd rather have it off the softener and put a filter on it for the iron. We wash the car, but not often, but we will wash things like the deck. It's wasteful to have that on the softener. And yes we do have rain barrels, we use them when we can, but in dry parts of the summer we have to use the hose. Right now I'm using snow water to water everything inside to avoid using the softened water. Yup I send my poor husband out to fill all my pots with snow, melt it in the warm house and put it in water jugs to water everything. I have some orchids which even on well water where we last lived I had to do the same due to the hardness.
 
  #33  
Old 03-02-14, 08:56 AM
NJT's Avatar
NJT
NJT is offline
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 23,539
Upvotes Received: 1
The sodium
A properly operating and maintained water softener does not significantly add sodium, to the water. It's not the way they operate. While there is 'some' residual sodium, I don't think it will kill plants. It hasn't killed any of mine...

It's wasteful to have that on the softener.... I'd rather have it off the softener and put a filter on it for the iron.
Seems like an even trade to me. One maintenance item for another.

 
  #34  
Old 03-03-14, 09:15 AM
Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: United States
Posts: 2,698
Upvotes Received: 11
GG,
The information I received was as follows.
Raise your high limit up 5°
Lower your diferentional down 5°.

In your case go from high limit, 180 to 185°
Differential from, 11 to 6°.

This came from Honeywell and as soon as I mentioned symptoms he knew right off, so
I'm assuming it's a common problem.
Even though you don't have outdoor reset if the boiler cycles to frequently the control acts as if you do.

Anyway, by changing those settings it will clear that error code and restore to normal operation.

Please let us know if this works.

Good Luck,
 
  #35  
Old 03-03-14, 09:28 AM
NJT's Avatar
NJT
NJT is offline
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 23,539
Upvotes Received: 1
if the boiler cycles to frequently
Differential from, 11 to 6°.
I'm curious how it is that the Honeywell rep thinks that going with a SMALLER differential is going to keep the boiler from cycling frequently. If anything it will make a short cycle condition WORSE.

Sorry... I don't believe your guy, nope, not 'buying it'.
 
  #36  
Old 03-03-14, 11:30 AM
Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: United States
Posts: 2,698
Upvotes Received: 11
Sounded strange to me too but I started to tell him the problem and he immediately finished it off for me telling me exactly what GG, had and insisted this would fix it, even new there was no outdoor reset. Apparently I was not the first to call.
It has something to do with the BOOST example error #10 code. Control recognizes it even though it's not there.
Time will tell if it works. If not, it's for greater minds than ours, which in my case won't be the first time.

Keep a good thought,
 
  #37  
Old 03-03-14, 02:06 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 48
ok my husband just came home and set it to 185, but the differential will only go to 10, it can't go lower. So he lowered it to 10. So we'll see. It might take a couple weeks to see if this works or not, as it only happens a couple times a week or so. I'll let you know what happens.
 
  #38  
Old 03-03-14, 07:29 PM
Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Southeastern Pennsylvania
Posts: 2,947
The information I received was as follows.
Raise your high limit up 5°
Lower your diferentional down 5°.

In your case go from high limit, 180 to 185°
Differential from, 11 to 6°.
spott do you think there is any way he really meant adding 5 to the differential? I was wondering since the differential is subtracted from the high limit (isn’t that true? I’m not sure.) Maybe he was thinking lower differential but really meaning more distance from the high limit thus a numerically higher differential? Or is that a stretch or just plain nonsense?

Even though you don't have outdoor reset if the boiler cycles to frequently the control acts as if you do.
That brings back the good old days for me! LOL (Well not really. That bug is a big headache to someone else. I guess not a source of entertainment.)

You find the bug in the software and then you find , on the surface, the totally unrelated events that trigger it. Who would ever guess? LOL

Could be something silly, like the code is always checking the number of cycles per unit time, and when that number (which rarely) exceeds some value, the code wants to do something special and it just assumes (erroneously because there is a high cycle rate) there is an ODR and so jumps to a routine that is used for ODR. But in that ODR routine the normal ODR checks in that routine then discover there is a problem with the ODR (i.e., just a slight problem since the ODR doesn’t even exist. LOL) and so displays Error 10.

So the work around is to set the parameters such that number of cycles per unit time never exceeds the magic number (known only to Honeywell) but are sufficient to allow the system to operate in an acceptable manner.

Just making all of that up- but I’ve seen some real whoppers in my day and something like that would be common. LOL
 
  #39  
Old 03-04-14, 05:52 AM
NJT's Avatar
NJT
NJT is offline
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 23,539
Upvotes Received: 1
do you think there is any way he really meant adding 5 to the differential?
I wondered the same myself...

I personally would run the diff at 20, maybe even 25. I have mine set at 30 in fact! But it never gets even close to the high limit so it's a moot point, but this is something to keep in mind... the ONLY time that the DIFF setting comes into play is when the boiler water temp 'bounces off' the High Limit.

GG, have you observed the actual water temperatures over the course of time? Does the system actually reach high limit before the heat calls are satisfied? Apologies if this has already been asked and I missed it, or forgot... and I'm too lazy to read back.

ZD, I've done my share of programming 'back in the day' also... I can relate! (loved that Z80 machine language! yes, I'm a masochist!)
 
  #40  
Old 03-04-14, 06:02 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 48
Could be something silly, like the code is always checking the number of cycles per unit time, and when that number (which rarely) exceeds some value, the code wants to do something special and it just assumes (erroneously because there is a high cycle rate) there is an ODR and so jumps to a routine that is used for ODR. But in that ODR routine the normal ODR checks in that routine then discover there is a problem with the ODR (i.e., just a slight problem since the ODR doesn’t even exist. LOL) and so displays Error 10.

So the work around is to set the parameters such that number of cycles per unit time never exceeds the magic number (known only to Honeywell) but are sufficient to allow the system to operate in an acceptable manner.

[/url]
According to the info I found in my hours, sadly yes hours, for this thing (sigh) this number deals with how many times the boost is noticed within 60 cycles. Or something of that nature. I have no clue what boost even means? If it's noticed even once in the last 60 cycles it'll read error 10. No clue beyond that.

But my dad told us to set the diff higher, he said most people he knows has it set to more like 15-25. He thought our 11 was too low, but someone else told us to set it that low. And yes even in our frustration with all this, I can still laugh a bit about it.
 
Reply

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Display Modes