Need help wiring a Taco SR504, Hydrostat 3250,Boilemate to a Weil mcLain boiler

Reply

  #1  
Old 03-24-14, 07:26 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: USA
Posts: 8
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Need help wiring a Taco SR504, Hydrostat 3250,Boilemate to a Weil mcLain boiler

Hello all:

I have been lurking for a while and it's my turn to beg for help:

I am updating my heating system (This all started because I needed to add a zone as I am finishing the basement).

Here is what I have now:

A Weil Mclain oil fired boiler, currently plumed with 2 circulators on the return side, a boiler mate WH7P fed by a circulator on the supply side. It has the original Honeywell aquastat and relay box.


What I have installed so far (I have not cut over, the piping, this is all ready to put in line when I figure the wiring out)

-Keep the same boiler- has worked great, and been serviced regularly.
-Keep the Boilermate- ditto
-I have installed a supply manifold with 4 taco 007s, check valves, expansion tank, auto fill etc...
-I have installed a return manifold

I have a Hydrostat 3250 plus and a Taco SR50 exp 4.

I have a good electronics background (long time radio technician), but the jumble of letters and unfamiliar jargon has me at a loss. ( I figure I could dope it out with enough time and coffee, but don't want to risk blowing up any of the new electronics, and someone must have done this before.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. (If I left out any relevant info, I apologize- let me know and I will post it asap)

Hank
New Hampshire
 
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 03-25-14, 05:50 AM
NJT's Avatar
NJT
NJT is offline
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 23,539
Received 2 Votes on 2 Posts
Hi Hank, welcome...

You need to first check the grid bias on the finals so that the resting plate current is in spec...

After the changes, all the circs are on the supply side, pumping away from the expansion tank? (not that it has anything to do with the wiring, but just trying to get the 'big picture' of what you are working on... speaking of pictures, it may help somewhat if you posted a few shots of the system)

Very basically:

The circulators will be wired to the 504 outputs.

The thermostats will wire to the 504 inputs, and the BoilerMate thermostat (which probably has multiple contacts) will be wired to one of the 504 inputs.

Tell us what control is on your BoilerMate... is it the one with multiple contact closures? Is it currently wired to run the pump?

There will be no pump wired to the 3250 pump terminals.

The ISOLATED END SWITCH in the 504 will wire to the T T inputs of the 3250.

We can get more specific when we have more info.
 
  #3  
Old 03-25-14, 08:13 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: USA
Posts: 8
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Thanks for the response NJT:

I should have mentioned the circulators are pumping away from the expansion tank, there are check valves after the circulators. I have the thermostat and circulator wiring done on the relay panel.

The other thing I didn't mention is I want to have the boilermate as the priority zone.

The Boilermate currently has the circulator wired directly to it, and it has the electronic control system.

The Boilermate schematic call out:
2 orange wires to TT on the boiler,
2 violet wires to the circulator,
2 blacks to L1,
white to L2
Blue to HWM circulator

I have not gone into the panel with a meter to see what is connected or voltages yet.

I will post some pix tonight.

Thanks!
 
  #4  
Old 03-25-14, 10:55 AM
NJT's Avatar
NJT
NJT is offline
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 23,539
Received 2 Votes on 2 Posts
The Boilermate schematic call out:
2 orange wires to TT on the boiler,
2 violet wires to the circulator,
2 blacks to L1,
white to L2
Blue to HWM circulator

2 violet wires to the circulator,

Which circulator?

Blue to HWM circulator

" HWM " not sure what this means?

=======================

It should be no problem to leave the boilermate pump wired to the existing control, but the orange wires that are going to the T T on the boiler will most likely be going to one of the inputs of the 504 panel when all is figured out.
 
  #5  
Old 03-25-14, 06:28 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: USA
Posts: 8
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Some pix of the project so far

Name:  boiler 1.jpg
Views: 3733
Size:  39.4 KBName:  black-2.jpg
Views: 1954
Size:  8.0 KB

This is the existing boiler and boilermate.
 
  #6  
Old 03-25-14, 06:32 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: USA
Posts: 8
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Opps

opps- wrong pix. (Could have been much more embarrassing LOL)Name:  boiler 2.jpg
Views: 8289
Size:  45.6 KB
 
Attached Images  
  #7  
Old 03-25-14, 06:40 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: USA
Posts: 8
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Pix of the new manifold and relay box

Name:  boiler 6.jpg
Views: 3238
Size:  45.0 KBName:  boiler 3.jpg
Views: 2525
Size:  34.7 KBName:  boiler 4.jpg
Views: 3885
Size:  30.3 KB

I am waiting for a coupe of parts to come in- most notably the long sensor to get from the hydrostat to the well on the boiler.

One question right off the bat is which pair of isolated contacts (XX) on the relay box do I use to connect to the TT on the Hydrostat? one pair is marked ""pri" & one pair is marked "man".

One manual I was reading called for the ZR and ZC terminals to be connected from the relay to the Hydrostat. Any thoughts?

Thanks a million!
Hank
 
  #8  
Old 03-25-14, 06:44 PM
NJT's Avatar
NJT
NJT is offline
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 23,539
Received 2 Votes on 2 Posts
Hank, friendly reminder, you need to renew... I hope you're still within the grace period! You know what I mean... Hotel Sierra Charlie ... nuff said!

Tell me more about that wiring on the boilermate... questions in previous post.
 
  #9  
Old 03-25-14, 06:49 PM
NJT's Avatar
NJT
NJT is offline
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 23,539
Received 2 Votes on 2 Posts
One question right off the bat is which pair of isolated contacts (XX) on the relay box do I use to connect to the TT on the Hydrostat? one pair is marked ""pri" & one pair is marked "man".
Exactly which model Taco is that? The newer ones have what they call an "ISOLATED" endswitch at the top left, and others down at lower left. Can you get a clear, well lighted close shot of that panel?

One manual I was reading called for the ZR and ZC terminals to be connected from the relay to the Hydrostat. Any thoughts?
That would only be for a "Warm Start" boiler.

You should not be running warm start, but it does appear that you do in fact have a 'triple' aquastat, an 8124A, which is a warm start aquastat. It can be easily modified for cold start.
 
  #10  
Old 03-25-14, 09:38 PM
Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 137
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
NJT,
Won't the Hydrolevel be replacing the 8124A?

Hank,
Why not mount the Hydrolevel right on the boiler in place of the 8124A? You wouldn't need the extra long sensor. All you would need was to wire up power and run a T-stat wire to the end switch of the 504 (and of course burner leads)

Probably zone 4 on the Taco should say priority and have a switch that should be on. This is the t-stat where the 2 orange wires from Boilermate would go and of course the output circulator control to the boilermate circulator. When the water heater calls for heat it won't let other circulators turn on until satisfied.

My boilermate had the electronic control so needed power and t-stat wiring. IF you don't have it on there currently, seriously consider putting a domestic/potable water expansion tank on the cold water line supplying the HWM between HWM and water meter. The inside lining of the HWM is plastic and can flex a little easier when the hot water expands. When that happens it cracks by the output pipe on top. and eventually starts to leak. Feel outside of tank especially around that area, if warm you'll know. Been there done that (covered by warranty) but still had to be replaced.
 
  #11  
Old 03-26-14, 06:54 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: USA
Posts: 8
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Progress!

1st- NJT- I have not been active in the ham bands for years, and I found that I needed to renew 2 days after the grace period expired! I sent the renewal in anyway (hoping there was a grace period on the grace period<G>) and it was rejected. if I ever want to play again I will have to retest.

2nd- Once I found that the wiring coming from the Boiler mate was just three sets of relay outputs (2 NO and one NC), it made much more sense. (sequoiasoon pointed that out as well this morning).

The Hydrostat is replacing the Aquastat- it is a smart device and (hopefully) will give me some fuel savings over the warmer months.

Here is the diagram of the switching relay- note the 2 end switches- I assume that the pri ones get hooked to the Hydrostat? (and the other ones not connected?)Name:  sr504exp.JPG
Views: 11922
Size:  45.8 KB.

As far as ordering the longer sensor- From my electronics background- I prefer to mount things away from heat sources- I know everyone else puts them on the boiler, but it is a "me" thing. (Laugh away- it's OK- it's not the weirdest thing I do. LOL)

The Boilermate is fed its cold water from an expansion tank on the well system- Thanks for pointing it out- that is something I never considered.

A piping question: the existing system has the make up water being fed into the return line about 2 feet from where the pipe enter the boiler. Is this OK, or should I pipe it into a tee between the expansion tank and the air separator?

Thanks all
Hank
 
  #12  
Old 03-26-14, 04:36 PM
NJT's Avatar
NJT
NJT is offline
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 23,539
Received 2 Votes on 2 Posts
Won't the Hydrolevel be replacing the 8124A?
Thanks SS, I must have been asleep at the wheel! You're right...

I assume that the pri ones get hooked to the Hydrostat?
No, you want to use the MAIN endswitch to your boiler T T else the boiler will only fire when the priority zone (water heater) calls for heat.

Once I found that the wiring coming from the Boiler mate was just three sets of relay outputs (2 NO and one NC), it made much more sense.
Yes, you don't even have to use the VIOLET or the BLUE pairs. The ORANGE will be going to the Taco thermostat input.

The Boilermate is fed its cold water from an expansion tank on the well system- Thanks for pointing it out- that is something I never considered.
In general a pressure tank for private well is adequate to absorb expansion from water heater. Hank, it's wise to check the pressure in that tank at least bi-annually just as one should do with the tank on the heating system. Shut down your pump, depressurize the system and set the air charge in the tank about 2-3 PSI BELOW the 'cut-in' of your well pump pressure switch.

A piping question: the existing system has the make up water being fed into the return line about 2 feet from where the pipe enter the boiler. Is this OK, or should I pipe it into a tee between the expansion tank and the air separator?
This would be the 'ideal'. It's probably 'ok' where it is though. Where you do NOT want to connect it would be on the suction side of a circ pump that was pumping TOWARD the expansion tank connection. The pressure differential across the pump can cause the feed regulator to piss it's pants and feed a little water, raising the system pressure.

Since you are going to be pumping away from the expansion tank on the supply side, there won't be that much pressure differential between there and the point that it's connected now, so if all that piping is OK, you can probably save yourself a little work.
 
  #13  
Old 04-01-14, 07:55 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: USA
Posts: 8
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Everything is installed and wired up, one major problem

OK- I have everything put together, I powered it up, and the only problem is the boilermate is not heating up- The green light (indicator that it is calling for heat) flashes on, fires the boiler for 5 second and goes out.

the hydrostat is set for indirect, the taco controler is set for prioroty heat zone 4,

i am at a loss to figure this out

help (please)

Hank
 
  #14  
Old 04-01-14, 08:25 PM
NJT's Avatar
NJT
NJT is offline
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 23,539
Received 2 Votes on 2 Posts
The green light (indicator that it is calling for heat) flashes on, fires the boiler for 5 second and goes out.
What happens if you disconnect the wires from the indirect to the Taco and JUMPER the thermostat input to the Taco?

You didn't remove the voltage supply from the BoilerMate control, did you?
 
  #15  
Old 04-01-14, 09:33 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: USA
Posts: 8
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Status-

OK- if i jumper the thermostat leads, the boiler fires like it should.

I remember that this happened once in the past after shutting down power to the system,and I resolved it that time by manually pulling the aquastat coil to power the burner.

I did (sort of) the same thing and it worked- (i jumpered the thermostat leads at the taco, and after a minute of the boiler heating, the green light on the boilermate came on, and is now behaving normally. I am not sure if this is a "feature" of the boilermate, or something going wrong with my controller. Either way,it is working for tonight and after a 15 hour day, I am hittinng the sack.

I will post pix and a wiring diagram of the final product, if someone else has the same question, youcan point them to the wiring diagram.

Thanks for the help!

73s
hank
 
  #16  
Old 04-02-14, 07:01 AM
NJT's Avatar
NJT
NJT is offline
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 23,539
Received 2 Votes on 2 Posts
I am not sure if this is a "feature" of the boilermate, or something going wrong with my controller.
I don't think 'feature'... Amtrol did have problems with some of the digital thermostats, I believe it was the electrolytic capacitors on the PC board that were failing. That doesn't sound like what you are seeing though... It almost sounds as if the relay contacts aren't 'making' reliably. You might try the other set of N.O. contacts... I believe that's the blue wire pair?

I will post pix and a wiring diagram of the final product
That would be great! Thanks!

73 OM
 
Reply

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Display Modes
 
Ask a Question
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: