Oil burner swapped out now boiler runs like crap

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Old 06-25-14, 07:17 AM
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Oil burner swapped out now boiler runs like crap

I own a Valliant Model # F75-W-55 PP oil burner.
Burner Capacity, GPH 1.25
Heating Capacity OR 1.25
Net rating MBH 131.30
It had a Beckett AFII 150 (0.75 - 1.50 GPH) MP1192 burner.

It ran for years with absolutely no troubles at all. I did a complete tune up on it yearly with a new oil filter, nozzle and contacts. I never had ANY issues with it. BUT the burner motor bearings started to really get loud. I wanted to replace the burner motor and be done with it. BUT I got 'talked into' a newer Beckett burner.

My oil boiler has not run properly since. It is making tons of soot that blows back through the damper and the inside of the boiler is filthy.

I think this new gun is way too large for my boiler. The blast tube was 9"(?) long mine is about 4". That got swapped out by the 'burner tech' who worked on it. And he installed a .60 nozzle to keep my oil bills low.

Here is what it's label says
MFR'S SETTINGS
ATC AF44X0
FIRE RATING: 1.10-2.00 GPH
HEAD: F12
STC PLT: 2-3/4U
NOZZLE 1.50 X80B DLVN SLD
(MESSED UP WRITING): 140 PSI

The installer is now 'in the wind' and the oil guy says I don't know what to tell you man. BUT, I know another guy....I thanked him but deferred. :NO NO NO:

I want to know which SPECIFIC make AND model number of burner one would recommend to replace what I currently have?
 
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Old 06-25-14, 07:40 AM
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JSOG,
I can't get into it now but it's not the burner but the numb nuts who installed it.
The first thing is your F12 head. You cannot fire a .60 nozzle with it. Every head has firing rate limits. For a .60 you need an FO head.
Check this sight and it may help understand. I will get back tonight.
The soot means you're burning rich and very poor combustion which is all fixable.

Hindsite is 20/20 but the motor would have been just as good except the guy wouldn't have had as much beer money.

Beckett Corp. | Welcome
 
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Old 06-25-14, 08:31 AM
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More beer money...it's a hell of a motivator. In any event he installed a f/0 head. I am going to attach some pictures or links to some pictures I just took. My gut tells me that there is too little air entering this boiler and that is causing poor combustion. It looks like there are TWO air settings on this burner. One, the large one (?) is closed completely. The smaller one is set to ~ #4 setting or so.


http://home.comcast.net/~laybackman/A_5742.JPG


http://home.comcast.net/~laybackman/B_5744.JPG

http://home.comcast.net/~laybackman/C_5745.JPG

http://home.comcast.net/~laybackman/D_5749.JPG



Hope these pictures help you....help me!!
 

Last edited by justsumoldguy; 06-25-14 at 08:48 AM.
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Old 06-25-14, 08:56 AM
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double post by me so I deleted this one
 

Last edited by justsumoldguy; 06-25-14 at 09:20 AM.
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Old 06-25-14, 09:09 AM
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You didn't see the posts because they were 'moderated', which means that when a new member posts pics they have to be approved by a moderator, which I just did.

I hate Vaillant ... they are by far one of the most difficult boilers to clean properly... and speaking of which, how do you know that the boiler has been properly cleaned all these years?

It's possible that your combustion issues are due to plugged up flue passes between the combustion chamber and the heat exchanger.

I say to replace the entire boiler and get that POS outta your house, no matter how much you like it.
 
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Old 06-25-14, 09:19 AM
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Didn't think of that! I'll delete the double posting
 
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Old 06-25-14, 09:33 AM
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HI MNJ Trooper,
Actually I found it easy to clean. The top comes off then there are some fiber mats covering clean out slots on each side of the inner workings. With a long handled clean out brush you can clean this area down into the fire box. Then you can access the upper chamber from the flue outlet. Last but not least the fire box gets cleaned through the front door that has the burner attached to it.
This boiler ran fine until the new gun installation. I still think the gun is not adjusted to allow enough air into the fire box to get good combustion. I will never trust another 'boiler technician' again. They NEVER clean the boiler our as completely as I have and often left the old contacts in etc.

I want to sell this home. Replacing the boiler is not a good economic option at this point. I would gladly buy a new Beckett burner gun just like the original one if they are still available. It had a single air control. It was a, set it and forget it, burner gun. This new gun has two air settings. The 'tech' who worked on it closed what looks like the main shutter and only has the secondary shutter adjusted open. It does not smoke but I still think the lack of air flow is what the incomplete combustion is all about.
 
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Old 06-25-14, 02:29 PM
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Did he use combustion test equipment to set the air shutter , and draft control , what was the co2 reading and smoke number when completed . Do you have your old burner , which you could reinstall with a new motor and be back to where you were happy.
 
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Old 06-25-14, 02:57 PM
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Hi Saves,
I have no idea to be honest with you what he used to set this new gun up. I do not know what the co2 reading was either. It does fire and run. There is no smoke coming out of the chimney BUT this new gun has what appears to be two air shutter controls. One is closed and the other is open some. I get some 'puff back" when it shuts off I think. Never saw it actually happen but there is always a small amount of very 'fluffy' soot on the top of the boiler. Over time it adds up. I had a good friend who was a licensed boiler technician set up the old one for me and give me some guidance on the basics BUT that only applied to the old gun I got talked into replacing. The old gun is gone...unfortunately. If I could find the exact same gun again I would buy it in a heart beat!
 
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Old 06-25-14, 06:16 PM
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By the looks of your nozzle pic you have poor combustion most likely due to lousy setup.
On your two air adjustments the one that he set @ 4 is the one you open first and then the other. It's not unusual to have the air band closed on low firing rate nozzles but you do have a problem. You said the pressure is set @ 140 psi which makes that .60 about a .71 firing rate which means nothing if the burner is set up right. That's just to let you know what the burner is actually firing.
If your getting puff backs it may be due to misaligned or positioned electrodes. You could possibly even have a wrong nozzle, by that it could be the wrong spray pattern or spray itself, for example hollow or solid. It's not only the gph that counts in nozzle selection.
You air adjustment is marked so If you feel comfortable opening that up some to get a better burn it wouldn't hurt. You can always put it back. That does seem low but the ONLY true way to tell is with a combustion anylizer. It is impossible for anyone to say if it's right or not without instruments.
Get somebody in with a tester to set it up properly and all you problems will be just a memory. There are good techs out there but I'll admit sometimes they can be hard to find.

There are independent service companies out there that just do service. Not a plumbing company. They can install but as far as service goes in most cases you're better off doing it yourself. Find a Heating Company and you'll find your problems aren't as bad as you think.

Blood Luck,
 
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Old 06-25-14, 06:50 PM
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Thanks for the information! I need to get someone here to put some instruments on this boiler and set it up properly. Maybe the nozzle is the wrong spray pattern. I can check on that. The electrodes do look a little crooked but they are even in reference to the face of the nozzle.

I marked the air settings after it was set and running for my future reference. I thought about buying the instruments needed and do it myself!
 
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Old 06-26-14, 09:01 AM
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Your first pic shows soot on your nozzle and head. Soot is unburned oil which means your getting oil spray on these parts and not getting into the chamber unobstructed. Besides the nozzle angle you might want to check if the nozzle line is positioned correctly. Is it far enough down the tube or too far back.
This is called your Z setting and it is adjusted by loosening the screw that holds the noozle line in place on the the burner housing.
Google Beckett Z setting. One choice will be " check/adjust Z setting for Beckett. Click on that and follow.

This sight will explain more. There is also a gauge that will help you set this measurement.
If you have a heating supply house in your area they could help you.
 

Last edited by spott; 06-26-14 at 09:19 AM.
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Old 06-26-14, 01:57 PM
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Hello Again Spott!

I have one of those flat gauges with all the measurements on it. I will check this tomorrow morning take some more pictures and get back to you.

Again I want to thank you for your help.

EDIT!!! I THINK I have one of those gauges....I have to look through all my 'stuff'
 
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Old 06-27-14, 11:54 AM
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Hi spott,
I have a Beckett T501 gauge. I placed it in the end of the blast tube to check the depth of the nozzle. The gauges tapered edges were against the F0 head and end of the gauge touched the face of the nozzle. Then as best I could, I checked the spacing on the electrodes without pulling the nozzle assembly out of the burner. (I am in a bind for time today.) I wonder if I have enough down angle on the blast tube as it enters the burner fire box? I think it call for 2 degrees. I attached some more pictures for you expert eyes to see. The nozzle is a Devalan .60 70B which means .60 gallon/hr at a certain PSI and .71 gal/hr at my oil pressure, with a 70 degree solid spray pattern.


http://home.comcast.net/~laybackman/E_5757.JPG


http://home.comcast.net/~laybackman/F_5758.JPG

http://home.comcast.net/~laybackman/G_5759.JPG

http://home.comcast.net/~laybackman/H_5760.JPG
 
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Old 06-27-14, 02:14 PM
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JSOG,
AF11 is different from AF or AFG. You need a T231 gauge.

Oil Burner Electrode & Nozzle Assembly: Inspection, Cleaning, Adjustment

Maybe this will help.
 

Last edited by spott; 06-27-14 at 02:33 PM.
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Old 06-27-14, 03:27 PM
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That could be the issue. It was left behind when first installed...... So my first goal is to get my hands on a T231 gauge. Once I have that in hand I can check the nozzle position again.

Thanks for the link and all your help!!
 
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Old 06-27-14, 04:52 PM
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Hi spott,
Just did a search for a BECKETT T231 gauge. It appears that BECKETT does not offer them anymore, and the T501 is the replacement gauge.
I looked at a picture of the gauge. I could be wrong but the T231 gauge looks like it would set the face of the nozzle back further into the blast tube than the T501 gauge does. I thought the face of the nozzle should be at the point where the F0 head flanges end in the center opening or just a tiny bit before that point.
So does the face of the nozzle need to be flush, just before or just beyond that point on the F0 head?
 
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Old 06-27-14, 05:33 PM
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With the 231 gauge you put the gauge on the face of the FO head unlike your other one that measures from the inside. Once you get the gauge you'll see the difference.
The nozzle should be back a touch from the head opening. You don't want your electrode tips to be near any metal that can interfere with the spark between the tips. If they're too close to the head the spark has a chance to go to the head instead of the other tip causing a delay or even a no ignition situation.

That's also where the spray angle comes into play. If it's not correct then the oil spray goes onto the head and results in unburned oil and soot accumulation. You had an 80° in your other burner. Why a 70° in this one.
The 70° is a more straight shot. Is the fire hitting the back of the firebox. If your original boiler called for an 80° it's because of the dimensions of your chamber. I'm not saying it's wrong, just curios why he would change it.
 
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Old 06-28-14, 04:43 AM
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I looked at the placement of the face of the nozzle this morning. It is exactly where you are saying it should be. As far as the spray angle? I forgot to measure the firing chamber which I will do as soon as I can later on today. It is a small chamber and the refractory is a cup shaped affair. I wander if the refractory is the right one? It is the one for my Valliant boiler and was replaced several years ago, before the new gun was installed. Thinking about it the end of the gun to the inside of the cupped shaped refractory is really close to each other. I wonder if that is the problem?
 
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Old 06-28-14, 02:39 PM
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Hello everyone! I found the original manual for my burner gun in the boiler room on top of one of my fuel tanks. It mentions a low firing rate baffle part # 5880. Because I am running a .60 nozzle 70 degree nozzle which the manual says is OK to run, (so is an 80 degree nozzle).

In any event do I need that LFRB? My thoughts are the fuel rate is OK BUT my air flow rate is low. Does the baffle they mention #5880 need to be installed in this boiler? There must be enough air flow for proper turbulence. IS this my problem?

My Z setting look good and so are the gaps according to this manual also. I posted what was printed in this manual.

http://home.comcast.net/~laybackman/I_5762.JPG

http://home.comcast.net/~laybackman/J_5763.JPG

http://home.comcast.net/~laybackman/K_5764.JPG

http://home.comcast.net/~laybackman/L_5765.JPG

http://home.comcast.net/~laybackman/M_5766.JPG

http://home.comcast.net/~laybackman/N_5767.JPG

http://home.comcast.net/~laybackman/O_5768.JPG
 
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Old 06-29-14, 07:40 AM
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There's a limit to how much you can 'downfire' a burner and it's [to a large extent] based on combustion chamber size.

If the chamber is too large, there is insufficient heat reflected back to the flame to allow proper combustion.

You may in fact need the LFRB, but it may not solve the problem.

I tried extensively with my POS Vaillant for years to downfire and was not successful, with similar results to what you are seeing.

Take a look at the chart on page 10 of the following PDF download:

http://www.delavaninc.com/pdf/total_look.pdf
 

Last edited by NJT; 06-29-14 at 08:35 AM.
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Old 06-29-14, 11:28 AM
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I'll have to check the dimensions of my fire chamber. Maybe I need to go up in nozzle size, say to and .85 or even a 1.00.

What makes me crazy is the fact that IF I had not replaced the original burner BUT instead replaced the burner motor I would be good to go.

Right now I am thinking that I would REALLY like to SWAP out this burner for one that is suited for my boiler and be done with it. The original unit had a single air control and was mated to my boiler. It never gave me any crap at all.

IMHO this new burner is too big for my boiler and that is the problem.

Any recommendations for my Vaillant F75-W-55 oil boiler?

It had a BECKETT AFII (0.75-1.50 GPH) MP1192 burner in it.
 
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Old 06-29-14, 03:32 PM
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What's the firing rate on the data plate on the boiler?
 
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Old 06-29-14, 04:09 PM
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Hi NJ Trooper
Is this the information you want?

I own a Valliant Model # F75-W-55 PP oil burner.
Burner Capacity, GPH 1.25
Heating Capacity OR 1.25
Net rating MBH 131.30
It had a Beckett AFII 150 (0.75 - 1.50 GPH) MP1192 burner
 
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Old 06-29-14, 05:13 PM
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So do you suppose your original burner got junked . . . . or might it be getting recycled ?

I know it's not your 1st priority; but I think I'd still be organizing a posse' to hunt that "installer" down to settle up.
 
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Old 06-29-14, 05:20 PM
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Oh my... that's the first thing in your first post! What I get for being lazy and not reading back!

OK, so your boiler 'wants' to be fired at 1.25 GPH ( not sure what the " OR " means though? ), and my assumption is that it calls for a 1.25 80° B nozzle.

Your guy is putting a 0.60 nozzle in and jacking up the pressure... so firing at what did you figure? 0.7 or maybe 0.75 ? That's barely over half what the boiler is designed for.

Was that old burner ALSO downfired this same amount?

By the way, that single 'air adjustment' you seem so fond of really doesn't mean anything. One way or another you need to have the proper air being drawn and the air doesn't care if it comes in one opening or two, as long as the proper amount comes in.

The newer burners (and I'm sorta surprised that your old one only had one adjustment) all have two settings:

The SHUTTER; which is the 'coarse' air setting,

and the BAND; which is the 'fine' setting.

The idea is to first set the BAND at say 6-7 or so, then USING INSTRUMENTS, adjust the SHUTTER to get 'in the ballpark', and fine tune with the BAND from there.

The bad thing about them boilers is that the combustion chamber is almost impossible to replace because the only access you have is through that itty bitty burner opening.

The so-called replacement that was installed was likely not the same design as the original (which IMHO was a nightmare) and is probably compounding problems.

You also could easily have 'unknown' air leakage into the combustion chamber. The seals between the sections start leaking over time. Once you start getting 'unmetered' air, that is, air that enters the combustion chamber from somewhere OTHER than the burner inlets, you get crappy combustion.

FURTHER, the 'wall' between the combustion chamber and the heat exchanger directly above is THIN. The seal between the sections at that point is known to go bad due to the fact that it is right above the fire. If you pull the plates on top, and put a bright light into the chamber below, I would not be at all surprised if you can see that light from above.

I know you don't want to replace it, but for starters I would go to no less than a 10% reduction from factory on the firing rate. You might try a 1.00 nozzle, 80° B at 140 PSI and fire around 1.10 or so. You won't save nearly as much as you think you will by down-firing as much as is being attempted. In fact, you may even find it ends up burning MORE oil.

The firing rate has to match the combustion chamber size or you'll have problems.

There's no reason at all that if it's properly set up, and there are NO AIR LEAKS, the new burner should not be able to function properly.
 
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Old 06-29-14, 07:02 PM
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No problem! I often ask questions that have already been answered...way too often in fact ;-)

I do not want to modify this boiler at this point it isn't cost effective.

I might tune this boiler with an .85 nozzle and see what happens. I haven't got my buddy to set me up like he did years ago for my original gun and now I trust no one to help me with this unit.

The new burner is definitely not the right one for my boiler. I do believe it was for a larger boiler.

The old burner was 'downfired' the same way and ran as clean as could be for years with an annual cleaning, filter replacement , new nozzle and contacts. My friend used to be a boiler tech but got rid of all his equipment..... ;-(

It is a 1993 unit and had one air controller as far as I remember. A simple black dial with some white numbers on it 1 to ?

This problem has been there since the new burner gun was installed BUT the soot issue didn't crop up until I started to use it in the following Fall several months after the gun was replaced. The boiler gets shut down in the warmer weather when heat isn't needed. I have solar hot water and have the tankless coil in the boiler for when the solar is not working.

The boiler fires right up. And shuts down nice and neat. It runs as smooth as what one would expect from a proper running gun. The soot issue is cumulative if you know what I mean. It shows up after several days of colder weather running 24 hrs a day. I have attempted to open up the shutter some but it seems to knock off the flame. So the shutter is closed and the band is set at around #4.

I have done the light thing in the past to clean it out and never saw any light except down the sides where the upper chamber is open to the lower chamber BUT I intend to clean this boiler hopefully this week and check it out again real good.

As soon as I do start the cleaning process I will take pictures of what I find as I proceed and whatever I do as far as the nozzle and contacts.
 
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Old 06-29-14, 07:12 PM
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Hi Vermont
Who knows at this point? I thought about a 'hunt' but it would serve me no good even if I ran into this guy now would it?
 
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Old 06-30-14, 07:01 AM
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Just found this unit on eBay;
Beckett Afii 150 Series Oil Burner Unit Complete New Pull Look | eBay

Here is a picture of it. It looks virtually like the one I did have. Note the single air controller on the right hand side of the gun.

http://home.comcast.net/~laybackman/BECKETT.jpg

It sounds pricey and it is supposed to be new, but that is up for debate IMHO.
 
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Old 06-30-14, 07:38 AM
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I would definitely stay away from that ebay burner. You can buy them BRAND NEW from Patriot Supply (and I'm sure others) for about $350 or so. You have to wonder where that has been that it hasn't been used, why was it pulled, why it's so dusty. If I were selling new old stock, I would at least wipe the thing down from all the dust before photo'ing it...

I say again... the AFG will work properly if set up properly, and no other problems with the boiler.

That 'cup' refractory is the so-called replacement that Lynn Mfg sells for your boiler because there is no other way to get a 'proper, original style' chamber into that thing.

My old Vaillant (installed '84, replaced 2 years ago) had an AFG and it ran FINE with the proper setup for most of it's life. (the last few years became problematic because of air leaks, etc)
 
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Old 06-30-14, 10:45 AM
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NJ Trooper,

I hear what you are saying. One thought was to go with a .85 GPH nozzle and increase the air intake.

Another thought I had was, if my current gun is too big for my boiler, running that gun at it's lowest GPH rating may not be low enough for my boiler and still be efficient. AND I like the single air control my old burner had. Are they even making them like that anymore? If they didn't it doesn't make sense except to complicate a simple process of achieving a good air/fuel mix IMHO. To use your wording in a fashion. "If you don't build it simple enough, it won't run well" ;-)

I asked this seller for some pictures of the side of the burner gun where the nozzle assembly comes out of the burner body. There might be a label there noting the exact model # of the burner if it was like my old unit.

I also asked for pictures taken from the FRONT of the gun showing me the blast tube and nozzle assembly inside of it.
He seems to be the eBay guy and his buddy is the more tech savvy one boiler wise has these for sale.

Here was his reply to my question about how/why was it installed but not used;

"I do know these were from new starts at the Radford Army Ammunition Plant and (about 9 miles from here...) never pressed into action... These came from the military "Staff Village" that they opted to completely dismantle recently..."

He is at $199.00 now I may be the only one that is even slightly interested in it. We shall see if he can come up with those pictures.

You think that I could buy a new burner that is the right size for my boiler for $350.00 or so? I have to check locally. Why do I see prices much higher than that on the 'net'? My head is hurting...time for lunch!
Thanks again for all your help
 
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Old 06-30-14, 03:48 PM
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If you had an AF II 150 :

Patriot Supply - B7203

Since there is no picture I can't be 100% certain this is a complete burner assembly, but I'm fairly sure that it is. I'm sure some research on beckett part numbers will verify, but the people at Patriot are very helpful too... when you call you actually talk to people that know what they're dealing with.

My goal is not to encourage you to replace the burner because as I said, you should be able to get the old one firing properly.
 
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Old 06-30-14, 04:01 PM
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Thanks NJ Trooper! If I could replace my original burner with the exact same unit I would pay a premium for it. It worked flawlessly. The original burner motor developed a bearing noise, hence my poor decision to have a recommended but unknown idiot swap it out for the one I have ;-( ;-( I'll call these people tomorrow and see what they can tell me. I'm also going to swing by local plumbing supply company soon and talk with one of their guys who acquired an original refractory for me. I will not make no sudden moves unless I feel good about any final decision I make. What I have in my head is IF I could find an exact replacement or one very similar I could set the damn thing up from memory!
 
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Old 07-01-14, 07:02 AM
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I sent this in an email to Patriot Supply last evening;

Hello;
I have a Vaillant F75-W-55 oil fired boiler.

BURNER CAPACITY, GPH 1.25
HEATING CAPACITTY OR 1.25
Net rating MBH 131.30

It had a BECKETT AFII (0.75-1.50 GPH) MP1192 burner.

The burner motor bearings got noisy and instead of simply replacing the burner motor I was talked into replacing the whole gun assembly.

The burner tech installed a BECKETT;

ATC AF44X0
FIRE RATING: 1.10-2.00 GPH
HEAD: F12
STC PLT: 2-3/4U
NOZZLE 1.50 X80B DLVN SLD



There is no doubt in my mind that this burner is too big for my boiler. He ‘downsized’ the nozzle but it is not running right. There is a soot issue. Now he is, shall we say ‘in the wind’

In a perfect world I would want the exact same model BECKETT burner that it came with mentioned above, but would settle for a great replacement that is right sized for my oil boiler.

I asked around over at diydotnet what they thought and was pointed in your direction. They told me you are a great group to help someone...like me!

I have been told that your BECKETT B7203 may be the proper replacement unit for my original burner.

I noticed you also have a BECKETT B7210. What are their differences?

There are no pictures, and no other information or technical specifications listed for these units on your webpage. Could you help me with this please?

Which one more closely emulates the OEM unit I had?

Are these complete units to include the electronic controls, nozzle assembly, and blast tube?

The air controls: Are they a single control or a dual control set up? The OEM unit was a single control unit and worked like a charm!



Thank You for any help in advance.

I received this reply already!

Hello,

The Vaillant F75 series boiler is a very sensitive boiler. It needs to be set up very precisely or it will soot up fast. Beckett takes these boilers and test fires them in their laboratory and puts out something called an OEM spec guide. Below is what Beckett recommends form their testing. If you have a 1.50x0B Nozzle in there, I agree that is probably not correct. I have highlighted in yellow the AFII burner which is what you state was originally there.

The B7210 and the B7203 are virtually the same burner, the only difference is the B7210 has a post purge.

If you want to go back to the AFII, the parts you would need are the B7210, the HLX70HB air tube and a 51840 Mounting Flange. They show a 1.10 60B nozzle below but that can be downsized depending on the application.

As I stated before, this is an extremely sensitive boiler. I have known mechanics who were in the Oil business a long time who has issues getting these set right. I would suggest you try and find a real good oil heat guy and get them to set it up properly.

Best Regards,


OK! I have one question What is a post purge??

I am leaning heavily towards buying a new unit at this point in time and selling the other one I am dealing with currently.

Again, Thanks for all your help.
 

Last edited by NJT; 07-01-14 at 12:25 PM.
  #35  
Old 07-01-14, 10:14 AM
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Yes... VERY sensitive to proper setup, I learned that myself from my attempts to down-fire mine.

POST PURGE - is what I refer to (which I believe is more accurate) as a " MOTOR OFF DELAY ".

Newer burner controls have some added features:

1. OIL VALVE ON DELAY - Which works with the newer oil pumps that have oil 'on/off' solenoid built in. This feature allows the motor, blower, pump, to spin up to speed BEFORE introducing oil. The net result is cleaner light offs.

2. MOTOR OFF DELAY - (aka POST PURGE) allows the burner primary control to shut off the oil and CONTINUE to run the motor for a period of time (some controls are fixed time, some are adjustable). What this does is allow the chamber, heat exchanger and flue to be 'purged' of gases before shutting down. It also serves to cool the nozzle line assembly a bit and this will cause less 'after drip' at the nozzle due to heating of the oil in the tube and nozzle after the fire stops.

Going back to my attempts to down-fire my system. My system was spec'd for a 1.25 80B nozzle at 100 PSI. No matter what I tried, different static plate, different retention head, LFRB, whatever... I was not successful at getting a clean combustion at anything less than 1.10 GPH firing rate. As I recall the last setup that was 'ok' was a 1.00 nozzle at some elevated pressure to get to the 1.10 GPH.

I really am hoping that if you do spring for the new burner that it goes according to your plan, that you don't end up back where you started.

How is the door gasket? Are you sure you've got a good seal?
 
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Old 07-01-14, 10:33 AM
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I thought I knew what post purge meant (running the fan after the fuel is shut off to rid the fire chamber of fumes BUT I want to make sure that I am on the right track. I see nothing wrong with the using the B7210 that has the post purge in it. Now I have to get time to clean the burner and inspected.
Once I do that I'll get back to you all.

I like the idea of a NEW burner that is sized for my oil boiler.
Again this site is great......because of its members.
 
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Old 07-01-14, 11:01 AM
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I will first decide what I am going to do with this boiler/burner. It is 21 years old. If I find anything that looks like a crack in a seal/gasket/chamber...whatever it is going bye-bye And I'll not what your issues were with downsizing the nozzle. Oddly enough mine ran sweet they way my buddy set it up BUT if I have to go up in nozzle size to get a good clean burn then that is what I will do.
 
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Old 07-03-14, 10:49 AM
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UPDATE: Yesterday I decided that the boiler was going to get cleaned which got done. Then I took a big break!

Next I sat down and just kept eyeballing this unit. It has been stated that any burner can be set up to run properly. In my mind I am thinking, if that is so, what is preventing MY burner from doing so.
I simply saw nothing so I decided to install a 0.85 -70 nozzle and open up the large air band some then fire it up. Damn thing ran like crap! No matter what I did with the air band settings it would not stay lit. Then it dawned on me. I have an F0 head installed in it and need a F3 head don't I? So out comes the nozzle assembly and I replace the 0.85 with a 0.06 nozzle and reinstall the nozzle assembly. After I do that I am again just looking at everything that is in front of me and wondering what is not right here?

So I get on my hands and knees and look inside the firebox since I have the burner door still open after reinstalling the nozzle assembly. I can see that the freestanding cup shaped refractory is not sitting in the back of the fire chamber. It has two slotted feet that friction fit into the grooves of the burner floor. I always thought that it was pushed to the back of the firebox. I never removed it when cleaning my boiler BUT it was now moved forward a couple of inches. It had to be the idiot who installed the burner that moved it when he cleaned my boiler and I never noticed it before! I am getting old and don't bend or kneel too well......;-)

The only other thing I noticed was the damper was adjusted to the left of center and it was always adjusted to the right of center. So I loosened it up and moved it back to where it used to be according to the scratch marks on it.

OK, time to fire her up. So I do and she first primes herself and she fires up. I forgot that I still had the large air band adjustment open a 1/4" or so which was never opened at all until now. It was running but running a bit rough. So I used the small air band adjustment to cut back on the intake air a bit. The damn thing is running as smooth as a singer sewing machine. No smoke out chimney. Quick start ups and clean shut downs! Damn!! It has been running for 18 hours and there was just three or four small bits of soot on the top of the boiler today. I figure that could be residual soot from me cleaning the boiler.

I am going to check for soot on the top of the boiler every 24 hours and if you do not hear from me again on this subject, then it was the cup refractory out of position and the small adjustment to the barometric damper that got it running properly!

I have to thank everyone for all their input. You fellow DIY'ers got me to thinking that this can be solved, IF, I can find the problem that appeared since the burner upgrade.
 
  #39  
Old 07-03-14, 01:43 PM
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it was now moved forward a couple of inches
This goes back to something that Spott said earlier in #18:

Is the fire hitting the back of the firebox?
He asked this because any time any part of the flame touches (impinges) on ANYTHING, small amounts of soot are formed and collect over time.

It sounds as if the flame was 'licking' that cup refractory and causing the sooting.
 
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Old 07-03-14, 05:06 PM
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CORRECT! And I believe that it was mentioned that any burner could be tuned properly if all the proper parts are there and in so many words the environment is correct. I am happy that as of 30 minutes ago this bad boy has been running clean as could be. I do not usually run the boiler in warm weather since I do have solar hot water BUT I am going to let it run for a while and check it daily. Heck I may allow it to run all the time. It is an old boiler and I thought about allowing it to cool off. That allows the metal to shrink and possibly open up gasket issues. Keep your fingers crossed!!
 
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