installing a hot water heating system.(New Member)

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Old 08-17-14, 02:09 AM
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installing a hot water heating system.(New Member)

First of all I would like to thank the hosts of this site for a very informative forum.
I have been reading with interest now for quite a while because we are in the process of installing a hot water heating system.
Although we do have a contractor doing the basic installation of the boiler, I have taken on the project of installing all the pex oxy/barrier tubing and all the baseboard heaters.
I am going to have many questions and hopefully I won't ask too many dumb ones. Thanks in advance, Iver.
 
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Old 08-17-14, 04:04 AM
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Welcome to the forum , you will find there are many willing to share there knowledge and experiences, with Tropper keeping everyone real and on subject and if you wanted to do the complete install yourself I believe there is enough help here for that.
 
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Old 08-17-14, 02:20 PM
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Iver, please go ahead and ask your questions if you have any at this time. Might as well get the ball rolling.
 

Last edited by NJT; 08-17-14 at 05:08 PM.
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Old 08-17-14, 10:37 PM
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Okay. First some background. After removing two gas fired hot air furnaces and all the ducting, I did a heat loss calculation for all the areas which will be serviced by the new boiler.
This was a manual calculation using my measurements and information acquired online to do the calculation. I did a surface heat loss and an air exfiltration and ventilation heat loss for each room including the basement areas and added them together to give me the total heat loss.
Although this method is quite detailed, there are SO many variables that could change the final heat loss btu number.
One zone has 880 sq. ft. and my heat loss is 18,800 btu which is close to the 25 btu/sq. ft. average. But another zone is 780 sq. ft. (basement area) and my heat loss comes to 13,000 btu. which is quite below the 25 btu/ sq. ft. average.

So, my question is....do I install the fin tube at @550 btu/ft. according to my heat loss or try to work toward the 25 btu/ average.
Thanks, Iver.
Lots more questions to com......
 
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Old 08-18-14, 05:41 AM
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So, my question is....do I install the fin tube at @550 btu/ft. according to my heat loss or try to work toward the 25 btu/ average.
IMO I would install the baseboard length based on a lower temperature..

First off what boiler are you installing? The quick calculation gets in the 40K btu range...

So if you have the room, add baseboard for 140F water. The max baseboard length on a loop is I think 65 ft..

65 ft x 330F = 21450 btu.. good for the 880 sq ft
60ft x 330f = 19800 btu " " " 780 sq ft


Lower water temps saves fuel... No need for outdoor reset

Others will chime in with their thoughts..


[ATTACH=CONFIG]36637[/ATTACH]
 
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Old 08-18-14, 09:45 AM
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Thanks for the reply. And the Chart.
Actually my total project is for 3700 sq. ft. which includes about 1300 sq. ft. of basement. I will have six zones in total.
The boiler is an Allied Mini-Gas with an output of around 105K. It is set up for 180*F.
Thanks, Iver.
 
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Old 08-18-14, 09:56 AM
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Its amazing they show no piping schematic...

Literature Downloads | Allied Engineering - Super Hot Boilers

So, my question is....do I install the fin tube at @550 btu/ft. according to my heat loss or try to work toward the 25 btu/ average.
I think I answered based on my opinion..

I assume you can pipe to 550F per ft and use the ODR that the unit could use...

They look like very good controls on that boiler....

What for another opinion.
 
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Old 08-19-14, 01:00 AM
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Thanks for the comments on the boiler. It was recommended to me as being fairly dependable and also that they are manufactured right here in our area.
I'm happy to hear you like the controls. Something I really don't know much about.
The control on this unit is set for 4 Zones only and an additional control board can be added for more zones.

I have been reading on this forum about the "Fuel Smart Hydrostat" and how it uses Thermal Targeting instead of ODR. It sounds like a good idea. Is this something which can be added to the boiler or does it have to replace something.
Still learning, thanks, Iver.
 
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Old 08-19-14, 06:23 AM
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"Fuel Smart Hydrostat" and how it uses Thermal Targeting instead of ODR. It sounds like a good idea. Is this something which can be added to the boiler or does it have to replace something.
It would replace the controls that are on the boiler now..

But as I stated, you can over radiate your home so the boiler can run at its lowest temp of 140f..You cant get much better then that.

So, my question is....do I install the fin tube at @550 btu/ft. according to my heat loss or try to work toward the 25 btu/ average.
Get a second opinion but as I said install the fin tube to 330 btu/ft.....



Over radiate.............set the high limit to 140f..............set the t stat to 70F..............and forget about it........
 
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Old 08-19-14, 10:00 AM
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Okay, I think I get it. Put in more baseboards and set control to lower the max. water temp.
Sounds logical. My problem might be not having enough wall space to extend lengths.
Also,probably keep the existing controls for now.
Thanks for all the advice, Iver.
 
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Old 08-19-14, 10:35 AM
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My problem might be not having enough wall space to extend lengths
Install as much as you can consistent with keeping the water temperature lower... BUT, what you need to do is install PROPORTIONAL amounts in each room. If you go 25% over in one room, you need to go 25% over in ALL rooms. This means you need a ROOM BY ROOM heat loss estimate.
 
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Old 08-19-14, 12:15 PM
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My problem might be not having enough wall space to extend lengths.
Then you get high output baseboard that produces the same heat at shorter lengths..

Use the same BB in all the rooms to keep it consistent..

And follow troopers comments below...
 
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Old 08-19-14, 08:45 PM
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Thanks guys....
Fortunately I did a room by room heat loss so I'll try to get max BB in the area where I have the least room and calculate the percentage over and adjust for all rooms.
Thanks again, Iver.
More questions to follow......
 
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Old 08-19-14, 09:02 PM
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Example....

550 btu/ft @ 150f water temp....


http://www.slantfin.com/images/stori...ak80_80_10.pdf
 
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Old 08-20-14, 11:08 AM
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Thanks for that link.....
I see Slant Fin has a range of element sizes.
However for the last few months I have been buying and collecting baseboard (mostly surplus from other people's heating projects) and it is all the Fine/Line 30 size.

Slant Fin chart says 610 @ 180*F. or 480 @ 160* etc...

So I guess I'll have to calculate based on that....
Thanks, Iver.
 
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Old 08-20-14, 04:12 PM
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If you use the Slant Fin calculator, you can enter the water temperature and the program will tell you how many feet of fin-tube you need.
 
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Old 08-21-14, 12:10 AM
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Thanks Trooper,
I will give it a try....
Iver.
 
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Old 08-23-14, 12:21 PM
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Air Vents

Not sure if I should start a new thread or not but I am about to start running pex lines for each zone. I'll install air bleeder vents at each radiator (on the return side?)but are there other places in the zone loop which should have air bleed vents?

For example, baseboard along basement wall where the pex comes down from the ceiling to the radiator and then back up again to the ceiling.

Or where a horizontal run steps up with a 90 and then goes horizontal again with a 90.

Thanks, Iver.
 
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