Is this the pressure reducing valve?

Reply

  #1  
Old 09-14-14, 06:36 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: NJ
Posts: 274
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Is this the pressure reducing valve?

Hi, At 4 a.m. in the morning, we heard an alarm going off. It sounded like the alarm from the water leaking detention alarms we put on the basement floor by the water supply and the boiler. These portable units have alerted us to pinhole leaks 2 times already. Highly recommend that everyone get one. This time, it was a leak from the boiler area. We discovered a valve that is attached to a cold water pipe is spurting water. From googling the internet, it looks like it is the pressure reducing valve. Please see pictures.

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...psd0591c9c.jpg
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...psb4607e4c.jpg
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...ps8f41f5f5.jpg
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...psda9eba99.jpg
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...ps57973719.jpg

The leak is coming from the top lever on pic 1.

1. Is this the pressure reducing valve?
2. Can I just buy a replacement? It does not look like soldering is involved (My husband has had it with soldering. But, at least this is accessible. ), so it should be screw off and on?
3. Does anyone have the instruction on replacing this valve?
4. We shut off the water to this valve. Will it damage the water boiler? Can we still use hot and cold water?

Our boiler is P-WGO-6 Weil Mclain.

Thank you for your help!
 
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 09-14-14, 07:27 AM
Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 2,876
Received 5 Votes on 5 Posts
Yes, that is the pressure reducing valve. There are mechanical unions on each side. You'll want a valve with the same unions and the same dimension between unions.

The PRV is a Watts model - the model number should be on it. Go to their website for instructions.

Is the leak around the stem or the gasket between the upper and lower halves of the valve? That gasket could be replaced or the cap screws tightened.

Shutting the ball valve from the city water supply is OK, at least until you get the PRV fixed or replaced.
 
  #3  
Old 09-14-14, 08:17 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: NJ
Posts: 274
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Thank you Gilmorrie. The water is spurting out from top of the stem where the little lever is. So this means we need to replace the whole valve not just the gasket?
 
  #4  
Old 09-14-14, 08:23 AM
NJT's Avatar
NJT
NJT is offline
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 23,539
Received 1 Vote on 1 Post
I would replace the whole thing myself.

0386450 - Watts 0386450 - S1156F 1/2" Union Solder Iron Pressure Regulator

so it should be screw off and on?
Yes.

3. Does anyone have the instruction on replacing this valve?
When you get the new valve it's pretty self explanatory, but unless there is a shutoff valve between the boiler and the pressure reducing valve you will have to at the very least drain the pressure from the boiler. You might have to drain more...

This brings up a whole new adventure in getting the boiler filled again and the air out of the pipes.

4. We shut off the water to this valve. Will it damage the water boiler? Can we still use hot and cold water?
Yes, you can still use the domestic water in the home.

Do you have a separate stand-alone domestic water heater?

There is a gauge on the boiler, can you tell us what the pressure reading on that gauge is?
 
  #5  
Old 09-14-14, 08:45 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: NJ
Posts: 274
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
NJ Trooper: There are 2 shutoff valves. One between the valve and the boiler and one between the valve and the rest of the pipe.
The first valve: http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...ps2bf999b6.jpg
Another view of the 1st valve: http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...ps46d768b3.jpg

The 2nd valve: http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...ps07d44d7c.jpg

We do have a separate stand-alone domestic water heater.

The gauge on the boiler reads about 12 or 13 PSI.
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...ps60019be1.jpg

Thank you!
 
  #6  
Old 09-14-14, 08:51 AM
lawrosa's Avatar
Super Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Galivants Ferry SC USA
Posts: 17,799
Received 10 Votes on 8 Posts
There are 2 shutoff valves. One between the valve and the boiler and one between the valve and the rest of the pipe.

It must be your lucky day today....
 
  #7  
Old 09-14-14, 08:54 AM
NJT's Avatar
NJT
NJT is offline
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 23,539
Received 1 Vote on 1 Post
One between the valve and the boiler and one between the valve and the rest of the pipe.
Perfect... that means that you can isolate the valve with no worries about having to do anything at all to the boiler. Just close both of those outside valves.

The big nut on the right side of the reducing valve is a 'union' connection. Loosen that first. Then you would unthread the valve from the other pipe.

BEFORE YOU INSTALL THE NEW VALVE! FLUSH OUT THE WATER LINE LEADING TO IT! 'Crud' builds up in water lines over time, ESPECIALLY when you are on a private well. That crud WILL break loose and get into the works of the new valve... and you'll have a 'paperweight' on a pipe. So rig up some way using a hose or something... even a bucket... to flush that line out as much as possible before installing the new valve. Try to flush the line out full force, and open and close the valve a few times to loosen and flush as much of the crud as possible.

Don't be surprised after this if the 9D backflow preventer starts dribbling out the drain valve either... that 'crud' will mess that up too. Maybe replace both at the same time? Up to you.

The gauge on the boiler reads about 12 or 13 PSI.
Which is 'probably' OK... but I see that the boiler is hot, you've been running the heat?

With a hot boiler I might expect a bit higher pressure, but we can talk about that after. The new valve may solve that issue, and your gauge may not be accurate (they rarely are).
 
  #8  
Old 09-14-14, 09:25 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: NJ
Posts: 274
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Lawrosa: Yes, lucky day. The alarm worked, leak happened while we were home, and the boiler was installed right

NJ Trooper: I was wrong about the having a water heater. I think what we have is a tank that holds the hot water. The boiler heats the water and sends it to the tank. If the water cools, the water tank triggers the boiler to run. It is hot because we ran the hot water (or I hope that is the case).
 
  #9  
Old 09-14-14, 09:34 AM
NJT's Avatar
NJT
NJT is offline
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 23,539
Received 1 Vote on 1 Post
I was wrong about the having a water heater.
No problem...

What you have is probably what might be called an "Aqua Booster" system.

Let us know when you get the reducing valve fixed up and we can look into possibly changing some settings that might save you some fuel... IF the settings are outta whack that is... they often are.
 
  #10  
Old 09-14-14, 09:58 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: NJ
Posts: 274
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Thanks NJ Trooper. How long can I keep the 2 shutoff valves closed? I called around and none of the stores carrying the part is opened. The earliest we can fix the valve is Monday night.

On the 9D backflow preventer, is that the one that has a pipe underneath it http://s48.photobucket.com/user/Novi...ml?sort=2&o=10? We have changed that valve at least 1 time. It sounds like we should change it again to prevent next future issues.
 
  #11  
Old 09-14-14, 10:09 AM
NJT's Avatar
NJT
NJT is offline
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 23,539
Received 1 Vote on 1 Post
As long as the pressure stays up in the boiler, you can leave the valves closed indefinitely...

BUT

If you do so, be prepared to MONITOR THE PRESSURE GAUGE (and also verify it's accuracy) while the valve is closed.

A boiler should be 'leak tight', and once the pressure is in there, it should stay... in a perfect world.

A boiler does not constantly 'use' water. That valve will only fill a trickle every now and then.

I personally have my valve shut all the time, but I walk past the boiler every day and keep a keen eye on the pressure gauge.

If you order from that link I posted earlier, you will probably have the valve on your doorstep the next day. They are very fast to ship and located on Long Island.

is that the one that has a pipe underneath it
Yes, that's the one.

I guess I wouldn't change it if it's not leaking, and you can wait and see what happens after you change the reducing valve. It might not leak...

As you know, that's even easier to change than the reducing valve!
 
  #12  
Old 09-14-14, 11:18 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: NJ
Posts: 274
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Thanks NJ Trooper. Unfortunately, the site you sent is out of stock. I am hoping the local places will have them but won't know till tomorrow. Will send update. Thanks again!
 
  #13  
Old 09-15-14, 06:32 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: NJ
Posts: 274
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
I bought the only WATTS 1156F the store had. I have a few questions:

1. The tag said set PST 15. The old tag said set PSI 12 - 15. Does this matter? Where can I find out what psi the boiler is supposed to run on? The boiler gauger currently says about 13 psi.

2. I noticed the pressure reducing valve is a NP unit. From what I read this means the unit has enough lead that it shouldn't be used for potable water or the dishwasher. From the piping, it looks like cold water passes through the 9D backflow preventer, the pressure reducing valve, the expansion tank, and finally the boiler. Does this make sense? The water going through the boiler should only be used for the baseboard heating only?

3. I realized I was wrong regarding hot water for the house. What I thought was the water tank is the water heater. There is no water exchange between the water tank and the boiler. However, there is some sort of electric connection between the two. But, after using hot water, I often hear the boiler ignite. That is why I thought the boiler heats water for the water tank. If the two are unrelated, why does the boiler ignite after using hot water?

Thank you.
 
  #14  
Old 09-15-14, 06:50 PM
NJT's Avatar
NJT
NJT is offline
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 23,539
Received 1 Vote on 1 Post
Does this matter?
No.

Where can I find out what psi the boiler is supposed to run on?
Right here.

Minimum 12 PSI.

The pressure will rise as the boiler gets hot. Allowable high pressure is about 27 PSI, but most systems are designed such that it usually won't go much above 20, and a 4 PSI increase from cold to hot is what I like to see.

The boiler gauger currently says about 13 psi.
IF (and that's a big IF) the boiler pressure gauge is accurate...

AND the boiler temperature is under 100F...

THEN that's fine.

IF the boiler is HOT at that time...

AND the boiler gauge is accurate...

THEN that's probably a little low.

BUT--------

Install the new valve first and then we'll talk about the pressure.

The water going through the boiler should only be used for the baseboard heating only?
That is correct. Water that passes through the reducing valve does not enter your potable water system, and that's another good reason for the backflow preventer.

If the two are unrelated, why does the boiler ignite after using hot water?
Good question.

What is the make and model of the water heater.

Can you show us more pictures of that please?
 
  #15  
Old 09-16-14, 01:50 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: NJ
Posts: 274
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
NJ Trooper. Here are the pictures:

Boiler with the electric control that the hot water tank connects to. The control is on near the top with the switch.
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...ps905a7918.jpg

Wire from the water tank to the boiler control.
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...psd41635f0.jpg

Water tank model information.
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...ps5ff27856.jpg

I am pretty sure when we use hot water, the boiler triggers. Maybe to send oil to the water tank?
 
  #16  
Old 09-16-14, 03:36 PM
NJT's Avatar
NJT
NJT is offline
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 23,539
Received 1 Vote on 1 Post
I see now...

What you have is called an 'indirect water heater'.

It DOES use the heat from the boiler to heat the water inside the tank, so yes, your boiler WILL fire up when the tank cools or when you use hot water.

What temperature do you have the water heater control set at?

Inside that tank there is a coil of copper pipe through which the hot boiler water flows. This coil being immersed in the domestic potable water will pass the heat from the boiler water into the domestic water. The two water supplies do not mix.

Indirect water heaters are a fairly efficient way of producing domestic hot water, but with oil going up up up, and electric rates reasonably controlled, it's close to becoming a 'toss up' between an electric water heater and the oil fired boiler heating the indirect water heater.
 
  #17  
Old 09-16-14, 03:56 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: NJ
Posts: 274
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Thanks for clearing it up NJ Trooper.

The water heater is set at 135 F. But, now, I am a bit concern. We are on a well system and the water is very acidic. Every year we have to fix a couple pin hole leaks on the copper pipe going to the PH balancer or to the water softener. Is there anyway I can check to make sure the non-potable water from the copper pipe in the water tank is not mixing with the potable water? We've had this water tank since 1998.

I've seen some of the tankless hot water heaters. Are those any good?
 
  #18  
Old 09-16-14, 05:45 PM
Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 2,876
Received 5 Votes on 5 Posts
Every year we have to fix a couple pin hole leaks on the copper pipe
That's not good, and probably will get worse. Seems like Pex or black steel pipe would be better for the raw well water, ahead of the softener.
 
  #19  
Old 09-16-14, 06:40 PM
lawrosa's Avatar
Super Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Galivants Ferry SC USA
Posts: 17,799
Received 10 Votes on 8 Posts
FYI its not usually the PH that corrodes the pipes. Its the softener that makes the water conductive....

This is cause of pin holes IMO....
 
  #20  
Old 09-16-14, 08:08 PM
NJT's Avatar
NJT
NJT is offline
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 23,539
Received 1 Vote on 1 Post
I dunno about that Mike, I've been running the softener since 1984, and the previous owners for about 20 years before that and not one pinhole.

PH is neutral to very slightly acidic.

If the pinholes have been adjacent to fittings such as elbows, I'm going with improper pipe prep (not reaming the pipe smooth) before assembling... this causes high speed 'eddy currents' in the flow which erodes the pipe from the inside.
 
  #21  
Old 09-17-14, 04:05 AM
lawrosa's Avatar
Super Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Galivants Ferry SC USA
Posts: 17,799
Received 10 Votes on 8 Posts
IDK. I guess Im talking my situation. My PH is adjusted. I cant get a water heater to last more then 6 years. IMO must be conductivity...

Causes of Corrosion
 
  #22  
Old 09-21-14, 01:21 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: NJ
Posts: 274
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
The pressure reducing valve has been replaced. And everything looked good. Thanks for all the help!

Regarding the PH, we don't know what to do other than continue with the PH neutralizer and the softener. Maybe we need to put in a whole house reverse osmosis system after the water softener to make sure the water we use is PH balanced and clear of excessive minerals and metals?
 
Reply

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Display Modes
 
Ask a Question
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: