wiring honeywell 6006 aquastat to a L8148

Reply

  #1  
Old 10-05-14, 06:34 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 33
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
wiring honeywell 6006 aquastat to a L8148

I just installed a outdoor wood boiler. Its connected into a existing fuel oil boiler that has its own Honeywell aquastat L8148 aquastat on it. It has a dial in it that tells it what temp to turn the burner off and the lowest that number goes is 180. My new wood boiler is going to run around 180 according to the manual so guessing by the time the water goes through all the pipe, a side arm exchanger on the water heater, and transfers the heat to the fuel oil boiler water its going to be 160-170? I'm thinking the fuel oil burner will turn on for a bit until it circulates some water through the heat exchanger then through the boiler. I bought a Honeywell 6006 aquastat that's supposed to strap onto the incoming line from the outdoor boiler and tie into the old 8148 aquastat that will keep the oil boiler burner from coming on, but still needs to let the zone valve and circulator pump operate. Just wondering how I go about doing this and what wire I use? I will try posting pictures of the aquastats later. Thanks.
 
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 10-05-14, 08:27 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 33
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
I should have said in the first post that the two waters in each of the boilers don't ever touch eachother, they are transfering heat through a 80 plate water to water heat exchanger. First picture is of the wiring instructions found on the inside cover of the L8148A aquastat thats on the existing fuel oil boiler. Second picture is of the wire connecting points inside the new L6006C aquastat. Third picture is of the L8148A. Fourth is the installation instructions that came with the L6006. Fifth is the info sticker on the inside cover of the L6006.Name:  wiring diagram on 8148a cover plate.jpg
Views: 9495
Size:  38.9 KBName:  DSCF0445.jpg
Views: 8757
Size:  34.7 KBName:  DSCF0447.jpg
Views: 10486
Size:  35.1 KBName:  DSCF0449.jpg
Views: 8040
Size:  34.8 KBName:  DSCF0451.jpg
Views: 3995
Size:  21.3 KB
 
  #3  
Old 10-06-14, 06:15 AM
NJT's Avatar
NJT
NJT is offline
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 23,539
Received 2 Votes on 2 Posts
What oil burner is installed on the oil boiler? More specifically, what PRIMARY CONTROL is on that burner?

Just to clarify with one sentence;

You want to sense when the wood boiler is hot and disable the oil burner but not the pumps and zone controls.

Is that correct?
 
  #4  
Old 10-06-14, 03:53 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 33
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
That is correct. I have a feeling that since the fuel oil aquastat cut off is so high at 180 and my outdoor boiler water temp will be around that temp at the outdoor boiler by the time it gets through the pipe, side arm exchanger on the water heater, and to the water to water exchanger its going to be at a lower temp so the burner will run for a bit until it can catch up. I'm not using a wrap around pump as central boiler calls it. Only time water will circulate through the water to water exchanger on the indoor boiler side of things is when the circulation pump comes on on the existing fuel oil boiler. The outdoor boiler side of the heat exchanger will always be circulating through it 24/7 with the pump thats on the back of the outdoor boiler. Attached is a picture of the primary control. Thanks.Name:  DSCF0453.jpg
Views: 4070
Size:  29.4 KB
 
  #5  
Old 10-06-14, 04:25 PM
NJT's Avatar
NJT
NJT is offline
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 23,539
Received 2 Votes on 2 Posts
Well dangit, your oil primary doesn't allow the easiest solution because it doesn't have a set of " T T " terminals on it as the newer ones do...

If you had that all you would need to do is remove the wire jumper that would be there and run some low voltage thermostat wire from those terminals to the R-B terminals of the 6006. When the wood boiler pipes are hot, the 6006 would open those contacts and the oil burner would not fire... all the other controls would still work... pumps, zone valves, etc.

You could change out the oil primary to a newer one... OR ...

You COULD use the 6006 to interrupt the " B1 " wire from the aquastat to the burner... it would work the same way but is a bit more difficult because this has to be 120 VAC wiring and must be the MC cable with the metal sheath.

So, to go that route, run a cable from the R-B terminals of the 6006 to the aquastat. Remove the RED wire from the B1 terminal and connect it to one of the wires from the 6006. Connect the other wire from the 6006 to the B1 terminal.

When the 6006 opens, it will prevent the aquastat from calling the burner to fire. Everything else will still work normally.

Burner will automatically re-enable if the wood boiler cools with either setup.

I'm not using a wrap around pump as central boiler calls it.
That would be the pump that circulates through the boiler and keeps it hot at all times, correct? It is a HUGE advantage to have that setup with a wood boiler as it allows you to store a large amount of heat in the boiler itself, ready to go when the thermostats call. There is MUCH less 'lag' in heat delivery to the home.
 
  #6  
Old 10-06-14, 05:06 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 33
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Is this 6006 ok to use with just thermostat wires if I was hooking into TT terminals? I thought when I contacted Honeywell they said that's more for the 4006 aquastats and this one needs 120volt power to operate.

I have researched this some before and I think your answer about taping into the B1 terminal is what the general consensus was. No one was able to give me an answer about what wire to use though, so glad you were.

Is the metal sheath you referred to the flexible conduit stuff? The wiring in the old aquastat is 16 gauge solid copper, not the stranded stuff. Can you provide a link to the exact wire I'd need? Thanks.
 
  #7  
Old 10-06-14, 05:17 PM
NJT's Avatar
NJT
NJT is offline
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 23,539
Received 2 Votes on 2 Posts
Yes, you can use the 6006 for low voltage switching.

Yes, flexible conduit... FMC ... or just MC ... 14 gauge would be fine.

The wire on the B1 terminal is 16 gauge? Sounds kinda smallish to me ... but if it's not melted I guess it's OK.

Make sure to use the correct connectors with the MC cable... on aluminum jacketed cable only use the compression clamp type.

Be sure to understand the difference... they look the same for the most part. Do NOT use the type where the screw threads in and jams the metal jacket. Those are ONLY for the STEEL jacketed cable.

Also you should use ANTI-SHORT bushings on the end of the cable.

Shop Gampak 35-Pack BX-MC-Flex Bushing at Lowes.com

Of course you don't need 250 feet, but this is the stuff. I think they sell it by the foot as well.

Southwire 14/2 X 250 ft. MC Lite Cable-68579201 at The Home Depot
 
  #8  
Old 10-06-14, 06:13 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 33
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
So I will need a certain footage of wire, two antishort bushings, and two compression clamps?

I looked at the L1 wires in the aquastat and it looked like a 16 on the wire but will check again.

The power for the oil boiler is on its own circuit. Its a 20 amp breaker with 12/2 wire running into a old fuse box with a single old style round glass fuse that's 15 amp, from there it runs into the on/off switch that came on the oil boiler, and I think its stranded wire, if I got pictures of this do you think you could help rewire it? I'd like to do away with the old 15 amp glass fuse, but its right next to the thing that converts it to 24 volt for the t-stats.
 
  #9  
Old 10-06-14, 07:07 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 33
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Is any special spade connector needed on the B1 terminal? That one isn't a screw connection like the rest of them.

Do you think I should take off the red B1 wire, cut the spade end of it off, wire nut or solder it to the cut off red wire?
 
  #10  
Old 10-07-14, 05:26 AM
NJT's Avatar
NJT
NJT is offline
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 23,539
Received 2 Votes on 2 Posts
Well... that does pose a small issue.

I wouldn't cut the connector off myself, just in case for some reason, whatever, I wanted to reverse the modification in the future and go back to standard.

You could cut it off and wire nut if you wanted to.

One issue with crimp type connectors is that they should not be used with solid wire. They WILL loosen up in time and cause problems, ESPECIALLY if they are not crimped with a proper tool. If they don't loosen, the wire often breaks right at the point of the crimp.

If you must (and it seems you must) use a crimp connector on solid wire it's probably best to solder the lug on... this isn't ideal either, but it won't loosen up. It could still break but there isn't a whole lot of vibration to worry about on a boiler.

You could crimp a lug onto a piece of stranded wire and pigtail it onto the solid wires with wire nuts. That's kinda 'kludgey' though.

They do make 'male' spade connectors... so one of the incoming wires could be fitted with one of those and plugged into the existing one.

By the way, those are 1/4" " FASTON " or " SPADE " connectors.
 
  #11  
Old 10-07-14, 07:39 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 33
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Whats the reason for needing this special wire? Why wouldn't normal 14/2 have worked?

Both covers on the aquastats have a note that says to use copper conductors. does this mean I need to find a copper spade connector?
 
  #12  
Old 10-08-14, 05:24 AM
NJT's Avatar
NJT
NJT is offline
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 23,539
Received 2 Votes on 2 Posts
Whats the reason for needing this special wire? Why wouldn't normal 14/2 have worked?
You mean the flexible metal conduit wire? I wouldn't call it 'special'. By 'normal' do you mean the plastic jacketed "NM" cable? It's not acceptable to National Electric Code...

Both covers on the aquastats have a note that says to use copper conductors. does this mean I need to find a copper spade connector?
No, that's referring to the wire itself. The aquastats aren't acceptable for use with aluminum wire.
 
  #13  
Old 10-08-14, 01:55 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 33
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Yes, I'm calling the flexible metal conduit wire special and the plastic jacketed wire normal, or what ever goes in the walls of homes that run to the outlets and light switches. Could you use that wire and run it in your own flexible conduit?

Do you think stranded wire in the metal jacket conduit would be a better choice?

Could you check out the last paragraph in post #8 and see if you think its possible to do away with the secondary fuse? Could i email you some pictures of the setup?
 
  #14  
Old 10-08-14, 02:48 PM
NJT's Avatar
NJT
NJT is offline
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 23,539
Received 2 Votes on 2 Posts
Could you use that wire and run it in your own flexible conduit?
No, that's against electrical code.

Do you think stranded wire in the metal jacket conduit would be a better choice?
You can use the correct wire inside FMC (aka GREENFIELD). I think you want to use THHN type wire for that purpose.

if I got pictures of this do you think you could help rewire it?

Could i email you some pictures of the setup?
Sure I'll help... why not just post the pics here as you've been doing?
 
  #15  
Old 10-08-14, 04:01 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 33
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
If I went with stranded it would be to make it easier to connect the spade connectors. Is there a way to tell if B2 has power when a room is calling for heat? If it did I could cut the B1 connector off and use solid wire with a wire nut and not use B1 terminal on the circuit board at all.
 
  #16  
Old 10-08-14, 04:41 PM
NJT's Avatar
NJT
NJT is offline
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 23,539
Received 2 Votes on 2 Posts
Is there a way to tell if B2 has power when a room is calling for heat?
B2 will never have power.

In the aquastat, the terminals L2, C2, and B2 are all connected together, and are all 120VAC NEUTRAL, the WHITE wire.

I do not understand why Honeywell went and changed B1 to a spade terminal. It was a screw terminal for eons... and for some reason it changed.

No, you need to connect to B1.
 
  #17  
Old 10-08-14, 07:36 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 33
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
I'm not finding the stranded stuff in flex conduit, menards has it but its 12/2. The THHN I can only find in single pair wire.

How do you cut the conduit without damaging the wire inside?

This boiler/old aquastat are probably from the early to mid 90s.
 
  #18  
Old 10-09-14, 04:03 PM
NJT's Avatar
NJT
NJT is offline
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 23,539
Received 2 Votes on 2 Posts
You won't find the flexible conduit with the stranded wire already in it. You need to buy the conduit (Greenfield) separately and pull your wires through it. THHN wire is just single wire, not sure what you mean by 'pairs' ?

The smallest you will probably find THHN is 14 gauge.

You should be able to buy it by the foot at HD or Lowes... the Greenfield too...

How do you cut the conduit without damaging the wire inside?
Carefully.

A hacksaw is not the best choice because it's easy to cut the insulation and your fingers.

There are special tools for this, but they are pricey for a one time use, so most homeowners when faced with this will opt for a hack saw and just be careful.

Practice on scrap pieces.

Basically you only need to cut through one 'wrap' of the metal. you don't need to cut all the way around. Once you cut through one of the wrap spirals, you can bend it once or twice and it comes right off.
 
  #19  
Old 10-09-14, 07:24 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 33
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
That pairs wasn't supposed to be there, your right could only find the THHN in single wire.

Since this 8148 is 20+ years old and towards the end of last winter it was overshooting the cut off temp do you think I should buy a exact relacment for it only get one with a lower cut off temp than 180. This would maybe solve a couple problems and simplify things.

The over shooting issue...the dial is set at 180 which is the lowest it goes and when it did finally turn off the temp gauge would say 195 or so and it used to be 180 almost right on. Also around this time I could hear the boiler make a sizzling/percolating noise when the burner shuts off. wondering if the probe for the aquastat and the rest of the boiler for that matter is getting build up on it affecting the accuracy of the aquastat reading? Temp gauge is a couple years old.

If replacing the 8148 is the way to go, can you link to a good replacement? Thanks.
 
  #20  
Old 10-14-14, 07:58 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 33
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
So I want to use the terminals R and B on the 6006 aquastat which would open on temp increase?

or terminals R and W close, there is a picture of the instructions below.
 
  #21  
Old 10-14-14, 08:04 PM
NJT's Avatar
NJT
NJT is offline
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 23,539
Received 2 Votes on 2 Posts
So I want to use the terminals R and B on the 6006 aquastat which would open on temp increase?
Correct. When the wood boiler is hot you want those contacts to open to prevent the burner from firing.
 
  #22  
Old 10-14-14, 08:20 PM
Member
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: canada
Posts: 568
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
I have a method that works well to cut the outer sheathing is to bend the wire to kink it and then twist it which exposes a single piece of sheathing out so it can be cut with your wire cutter then pull sheathing off the wire.
 
  #23  
Old 10-31-14, 06:01 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 33
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
A two part question, first part is a question I asked earlier in the post and am now getting around to posting pictures, Can I remove the old knife type switch and glass fuse from the wiring all together? The white wire coming into the top of the glass fuse box is coming from a new 200 amp circuit panel and it is protected by a 20amp breaker there. There are 4 wires going into the box behind the transformer, two I belive power it and the other two bring power to the on/off switch that cam attached to the fuel oil boiler.

Second is I want a zone valve to open when the outdoor wood boiler starts to over heat. The boiler is a heatmor 200 and they have it wired that when it overheats at 200 degrees it sends power back into the house on the red wire in a 12/3 wire. The black/white wire is bringing power out to the boilers pump and fan. Right now the red wire is capped off with a wire nut in the crawlspace.

Attached are pictures of the knife switch and glass fuse and I believe the 24v transformer below it. A couple close up pics of the zone valves, I'm only wanting to power one during a over heat. pics of the existing aquastat on the fuel oil boiler, two thermostat wires come into this in the upper right of it. Hand drawn diagram of the wiring in the crawlspace where the 12/2 wire attaches to the 12/3 wire for power out to the outdoor wood boiler.
 
Attached Images        
  #24  
Old 11-01-14, 10:23 AM
NJT's Avatar
NJT
NJT is offline
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 23,539
Received 2 Votes on 2 Posts
There are 4 wires going into the box behind the transformer
When you say '4 wires', you literally mean 4 individual wires, correct?

You do NOT mean 4 'cables' with 2 wires each I presume... yes ? no ?

So you have inside that transformer box 2 white wires and 2 black wires, right?

In that first picture, what is very conspicuously absent is a SAFETY GROUND wire. All I see coming into the top of that box is a cable with a single white and black wire. I don't see a ground wire at all.

Is there a ground wire that can't be seen in the photo?

If there is no ground wire, this is what I consider a major safety issue.

You have a new electric service panel... how difficult would it be to run a new cable with a full size ground wire back to that new panel from the box with the fuse?

In my opinion, that needs to be done. No exceptions.

So, show me the ground wire first.
 
  #25  
Old 11-01-14, 01:16 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 33
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Yes, 4 individual wires, 2 blacks, 2 whites.

Its been awhile since I had the transformer off, but I think one black and one white power it, and the other black and white go to the on/off switch on the front of the oil boiler.

I don't see a ground wire anywhere which is strange because it looks to me like its somewhat new wiring, its not the old black wire that I've found through out the house that does not have a ground, maybe the ground is snipped off short so I can't see it. Might wait till it warms up at the end of the week and turn power off and see if there is a ground, if there was where would it connect to?

I bet its been this way for 20 years.
 
  #26  
Old 11-01-14, 04:21 PM
NJT's Avatar
NJT
NJT is offline
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 23,539
Received 2 Votes on 2 Posts
I think one black and one white power it, and the other black and white go to the on/off switch on the front of the oil boiler.
That's probably correct. I bet the 2 white and 2 black that are coming up from the bottom are those two wires. Hot and Neutral to transformer, hot and neutral to boiler.

I presume that the hot and neutral to the boiler are going down into that piece of conduit coming out the bottom of the transformer box.

Can you show me where that conduit goes on the boiler please?

maybe the ground is snipped off short so I can't see it. ... if there was [a ground wire] where would it connect to?
You may be right... The ground wire should be grounded to the box itself, firmly attached under one of the mounting screws, and it should continue all the way to the boiler. If the piece of conduit travels all the way to the boiler, that can serve as a ground from that point on, but ONLY if it's FIRMLY attached to the box and to the boiler.

I don't see a ground wire in the aquastat picture either, it should go to that green screw at the upper left, there may be another green screw but the bottom of that pic is cut off.

So... to answer the question about getting rid of that fuse and disconnect switch:

As long as there is a switch on the boiler with the typical red cover, you could remove that box and run a new wire directly into the transformer box... but that's not what I would do. I would mount an extra deep 4" steel utility box there, run the new wire into it, and make the connections from the transformer box inside the new box. I personally would also put a second red plate on the new box and mount a 20A switch (do NOT use one of those cheapazz 99cent specials at Home Depot. Look for a SINGLE POLE 20A switch. Yes, they are more money, probably 5-10 bucks, but it is what you want to use.) on that plate. Run the wire from the panel to one terminal of the switch and connect the other two black wires from the transformer box to the other terminal of the new switch.



Don't put both of the blacks on the switch terminal, instead, cut a short piece of black wire and connect this with the two existing wires. Connect the short piece to the other terminal of the switch.

This is a good example of using a pigtail, but ignore the labels on the wires. The SINGLE wire on the bottom is going to be the one coming from your panel. The other two in the wire nut are going to be the two going down into the transformer box below. You can run the wire from the panel to the top screw of the switch, and the pigtail off the bottom screw.

The reason for this is that you NEVER want to put TWO wires on one screw.



All of the WHITE wires get wire nutted together.


In this pic, see that 'tail' of wire that appears extremely close to the terminal next to it? Bend that out of the way so it can't ever touch:

 
  #27  
Old 11-01-14, 09:18 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 33
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Here is the conduit going into the on/off switch on the boiler. Its solid conduit along the brick wall, then goes to flex conduit a short distance where it attaches to the left side of the switch.

Which aquastat is missing the ground, the one on the oil boiler, or the strap on? The one on the oil boiler I think came factory wired, but I could be wrong.

The current setup there are 3 ways to turn off the boiler which seems overkill but maybe thats code, starting with how power comes into the house. The 20amp circuit breaker in the main panel, the knife type switch with glass fuse, then the on/off switch on the front of the boiler. I would like to remove the knife switch and glass fuse setup.
 
Attached Images  
  #28  
Old 11-01-14, 09:38 PM
NJT's Avatar
NJT
NJT is offline
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 23,539
Received 2 Votes on 2 Posts
Its solid conduit along the brick wall, then goes to flex conduit
That's a junction box hiding behind the piping, isn't it?

Yeah, I think you might be ok with that as far as ground. Just make sure all the connectors are secure where they connect to the boxes so you have good solid electrical connections.

Which aquastat is missing the ground, the one on the oil boiler, or the strap on? The one on the oil boiler I think came factory wired, but I could be wrong.
The one on the boiler. I think you're correct about factory. Since all the chassis are electrically in contact with the boiler jacket, I believe that's OK per NEC code.

You DO need a ground from the breaker panel though... so that should be remedied.
 
  #29  
Old 11-02-14, 05:40 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 33
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
I took the cover off it, the black wires are spliced and wire nutted, I didn't see a splice in the white wires.

With having 3 different ways of shutting off boiler do you think it would be wise to remove the knife switch and glass fuse set up?
 
  #30  
Old 11-02-14, 08:19 AM
NJT's Avatar
NJT
NJT is offline
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 23,539
Received 2 Votes on 2 Posts
With having 3 different ways of shutting off boiler do you think it would be wise to remove the knife switch and glass fuse set up?
You could certainly completely remove it as long as there is an 'emergency switch' to shut it off, and a circuit breaker at the panel.

In general, building codes require a shut off switch at some distance from the boiler. Let's say for some crazy reason that the boiler is on fire and you can't get to it to reach through the flames to hit the service switch on the boiler... of course you can go to the circuit panel... but a 'big red switch' at some distance from the boiler is usually called for. They are usually found at the top of basement stairs, or at the entry door to the boiler room.

If you're OK without another switch, I would still say to install a 4" box above the transformer box, use the same bushing that is now connecting to the fused disconnect switch, run your new cable with ground (I would use an MC (armored) cable myself) from the breaker panel into that box and make the connections to the White and Black wires. Install a cover on the new box and done.
 
  #31  
Old 11-02-14, 02:46 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 33
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Yep, all makes sense, do you think new wire from the 4" box to the switch on the front of the boiler needs to be run as the old stuff appears to be stranded aluminum both to the switch on boiler and to the 24v transformer.

Can you elaborate on how to make the dump zone work?
 
  #32  
Old 11-02-14, 03:09 PM
NJT's Avatar
NJT
NJT is offline
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 23,539
Received 2 Votes on 2 Posts
appears to be stranded aluminum
ALUMINUM? probably what they call 'tinned stranded'. If that's what it is, it's copper, but be sure.

Change it if you are uncertain or uncomfortable.

You should use THHN wire only inside of that solid conduit. That can be bought at HD or Lowes by the foot.

If you can take some closeups of the wire I might be able to tell more.

Can you elaborate on how to make the dump zone work?
I can, but I don't think you're going to like what I tell you!

A 'dump zone' is supposed to OPEN when there is a power failure, in addition to when the wood boiler overheats.

For that, a NORMALLY OPEN zone valve is typically used. One that will OPEN and FAIL SAFE in the event of power loss.

MOST zone valves can not be used for this purpose as they are designed for INTERMITTENT duty. If you were to power a normally open Honeywell or Taco zone valve continuously closed (remember it's a normally open valve and needs to be closed until boiler overheats or power fails) it wouldn't be long before that valve failed on you.

AutoMag is one zone valve I know of (maybe the ONLY one?) that can be continuously powered closed to use as a dump zone.

See: AUTOMAG

Your dump zone must be situated ABOVE the level of the wood boiler in order that gravity flow (aka thermosiphon) will occur when the dump zone valve opens.

That zone must be big enough to shed heat fast enough to do the job of cooling the boiler as quickly as possible.

Hopefully with this information you'll be able to engineer something that keeps you safe.
 
  #33  
Old 11-02-14, 08:58 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 33
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Should the THHN wire I buy be stranded or solid?

I don't think my dump zone needs to be activated in the event of a power outtage, just when the red wire comming back into the house is charged because of the high limit aquastat is tripped. If the power goes out, nothing is going to work anyway, the pump out at the boiler won't work, the fan that blows into the fire box will quit, thats the only thing that feeds the fire with oxygen so flame will go out.

The plan to heat the house if power is out will be 20 gal propane tanks and a MR. heater, while I try to rig up a generator to power everything back up. Cook stove is propane so can give off a little heat.
 
  #34  
Old 11-04-14, 05:35 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 33
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Since I'm not needing a dump zone for when the power goes out is there any other way to do this? Such as a 24v transformer that gets powered by the red high limit wire, then the two tstat wires on the transformer go to whichever of the three zones I want to use as the dump? Only problem I can foresee here is what happens if a over heat occurs right when the thermostat calls for heat, the zone valve would get power from two different places at the same time.

If I hooked a relay inline of the upstairs thermostat wire thats power by the 120v red wire, is that a possibility?
 
  #35  
Old 11-05-14, 07:28 PM
NJT's Avatar
NJT
NJT is offline
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 23,539
Received 2 Votes on 2 Posts
That red wire is bringing 120VAC back from the woody when it overheats?

All you would need is a simple relay with a 120VAC coil that gets powered by that red wire.

The normally open contacts of the relay would wire in parallel with whatever zone thermostat you wanted to use as the dump zone.

If you used a double pole relay you could even fire two zones by wiring the normally open of the two relay poles across two of the thermostats.

I'm not needing a dump zone for when the power goes out
I don't agree, but it's your system!
 
  #36  
Old 11-06-14, 07:31 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 33
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Yes, red is power back into the house from the outdoor wood boiler that gets powered during a overheat.

Can you find a link to a relay that would work?

Maybe even one to a double pole.

I don't understand the wiring needed to make two zones work for a dump. You've seen the zone valves I have, is it possible you could draw a wiring diagram quick on how I'd need to hook it up?

Maybe I'm missing something on the dump zone when the power is out? What is the reason behind it?
 
  #37  
Old 11-07-14, 02:19 PM
Member
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: canada
Posts: 568
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Were I am from a wood boiler must have a dump zone which is N. Open and when the power is lost the spring opens the zone valve to allow the hot water to circulate to a zone that is above the boiler big enough to keep the boiler safe even without the pump operating . It is also wired so that when the boiler reaches 220f the dump zone opens and the circulator pump runs .
 
  #38  
Old 11-07-14, 02:44 PM
NJT's Avatar
NJT
NJT is offline
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 23,539
Received 2 Votes on 2 Posts
Should be the case where everybody is from! The truth is that I bet most aren't designed so they will thermosiphon anyway, especially the outdoor ones... think about it... how are you going to get underground pex runs into a flat plate heat exchanger to thermosiphon? And without pumps to flow through the heat exchanger, no heat is going anywhere anyway. Since outdoor woodys aren't pressurized, it probably doesn't matter as much though.

Can you find a link to a relay that would work?
I can think of a bunch of them... perhaps the R8845 might be the easiest to use:

R8845U1003 - Honeywell R8845U1003 - Universal Switching Relay w/ Internal Transformer

You connect 120VAC neutral to L2, the red 120VAC HOT from the woody to L1.

Put a JUMPER across the thermostat inputs of the 8845, you won't need them because you want the relay to trigger as soon as the red wire goes HOT.

Wire X1 and X2 across the THERMOSTAT you want to open for your dump zone.

If you want TWO zones to open, wire A and B across another thermostat.

You aren't connecting to the zone valves, you need to connect to the THERMOSTATS. When the relay closes, it will appear that the thermostats are calling for heat and the valves will open, pumps will run, etc.
 
  #39  
Old 11-08-14, 05:36 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 33
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Is the power outtage dump zone for safety or so you can still heat your house with no power?

Wish they showed pictures of the inside hook ups of that relay. I thought I didn't need a transformer, just a relay, or can that item be both or just one? Aren't the thermostats already getting power from the current transformer?
 
  #40  
Old 11-08-14, 08:18 AM
NJT's Avatar
NJT
NJT is offline
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 23,539
Received 2 Votes on 2 Posts
Is the power outtage dump zone for safety or so you can still heat your house with no power?
Safety first, yes, if you can establish thermosiphon flow (which as I said is doubtful) then you could theoretically heat the home too... but don't count on it.


Wish they showed pictures of the inside hook ups of that relay.
What do you mean? download and read the install instructions.

I thought I didn't need a transformer, just a relay, or can that item be both or just one?
"... just a relay ..."

You can get individual relays with 120VAC coils. BUT...

How would you mount that relay? You would need some enclosure for it because you can't just wire 120VAC power to something that's tacked onto the wall.

Then, you can't (shouldn't) wire low voltage control circuits inside the same enclosure without a proper 'divider' separating the two classes of wiring.

After all is said and done, buying a premade item that already has all the terminal strips and is rated by UL for the use, and is SAFE, isn't $50 a small price to pay?

Aren't the thermostats already getting power from the current transformer?
Yes they are. The relay contacts on the 8845 are not providing any additional power to the thermostat circuits.
 
Reply

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Display Modes
 
Ask a Question
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: