Weil-McLain 78 Boiler Maximum firing rate & residential home heating contracts?

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Old 10-23-14, 01:13 PM
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Lightbulb Weil-McLain 78 Boiler Maximum firing rate & residential home heating contracts?

Hi, I'm a homeowner with a Weil-McLain 78 Boiler, could anyone confirm its maximum firing rate..does the attached photo that lists input of 7.5 gallons per hour suggest a maximum firing rate of 7.5 gph? A home heating contract we're considering mentions it is for "residential oil heating equipment with a maximum firing rate of 2.5 gallons per hour"?

The Weil-McLain 78 Boiler was installed by another residential home heating company so it seems odd this boiler would be an issue for residential home heating contracts? I'd like to understand the meaning of this before contacting this oil company & Weil-McLain hasn't responded & we need a reply asap, many thanks..

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Old 10-23-14, 01:25 PM
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I'm confused...

You say that this boiler is installed in a RESIDENCE? as in SINGLE FAMILY HOME?

If so, then something is terribly, terribly wrong.

That boiler is large enough to heat at least a TWENTY FIVE THOUSAND SQUARE FOOT building. That's right, not 25 HUNDRED, but THOUSAND.

It's rated at 886 THOUSAND BTUH. A typical residential boiler is around ONE hundred thousand BTUH, more or less, and most of those are oversized.

That 886K is not the gross input even... the Gross input to that boiler is OVER ONE MILLION BTUH!

This can't possibly be in a single family residence. It must be heating an entire apartment building, right?

So a direct answer to your question is that yes, the firing rate for that boiler is in fact 7.5 GPH

Just how big is the building it's installed in?
 
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Old 10-23-14, 02:12 PM
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Subscribed to thread - Curious to see where this monster is installed.
 
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Old 10-23-14, 02:22 PM
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We had 3 of those babys I used to maintain as a kid in a North Jersey Jail annex...

Biggest house I did up north was 11,000 sq ft.. We put two 225 K's cascading.. I cant fathom a house being bigger then that monster we built..

Curious to find out too....

But your question has been answered...
 
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Old 10-23-14, 03:20 PM
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Lightbulb

Appreciate the replies, Weil-McLain did call back & asked about the burner which I identified as Beckett Model CF1400 with a firing range of 4.0-13.6 GPH with a max nozzle size of 8 GPH. I'm hoping to find out more about its origin but apparently it was installed around 2001 in the middle of the winter when the 1930 home's original coal to oil converted bioler failed with the service company claiming that's all they had in stock for the emergency..?

This is all new to me & I'd appreciate a better understanding of the implications from you all. The prior homeowners claimed there haven't been issues with it since installed but does this mean it's less efficient or more dangerous and that it should never have been installed in a residential single family home?

We recently had the home appraised to contest its assessed value & the sq ft living area is ~5,000 sq ft (appraiser took pictures of boiler room with no comment on this apparent commercial bioler-burner). The 1930 home uses water radiators in White Plains NY & uses ~3000 gallons/yr.

Regarding the home heating contract we're considering that mentions it is for "residential oil heating equipment with a maximum firing rate of 2.5 gallons per hour", would you suggest I clarify if this boiler indeed would be a disqualifier for their superior rates?

No other home heating company (including the associated boiler service contracts) that have serviced the home have ever had that limiting term in the contract but maybe that's why this company's offered price cap plan is the lowest? They have been told the property uses ~3000 gallons/yr so how much of an issue is this firing rate..?

Please advise, many thanks
 
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Old 10-23-14, 03:53 PM
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does this mean it's less efficient or more dangerous and that it should never have been installed in a residential single family home?
Less efficient, yes, definitely. Dangerous? No. Never been installed? absolutely. Even in an emergency they should never have installed a boiler let's say FIVE times as big as needed. In White Plains there are a fair number of supply houses within 25 miles that would have had a proper sized boiler in stock and ready to go. The installers saw a chance to off-load their 'white elephant' and they probably got a good steep discount on it because the supplier wanted it out, and gouged the he77 out of the POs.

the sq ft living area is ~5,000 sq ft
Which means that you probably need a boiler in the 150K to 175K range.

appraiser took pictures of boiler room with no comment
No, of course not. He probably hasn't a clue about what's 'proper' for heating. He's an appraiser after all.

uses ~3000 gallons/yr.
How's the insulation and air tightness of the home?

I would not be surprised at all if that fuel bill could be cut nearly in half with some energy efficiency improvements and a properly sized AND INSTALLED boiler system.

I'm not far from you and I burn about 750-800 gallons to heat a 2000 sq ft home.

How do you produce domestic hot water for the home?

Did you mention if the system is ZONED? That is, more than one thermostat in the home?

would you suggest I clarify if this boiler indeed would be a disqualifier for their superior rates?
You can try... but the terms seem pretty clear. Maybe they'll make an exception if they inspect and see that it's in good condition. Worth a shot I guess, can't hurt to ask.

If you upload a bunch more pics, we might be able to offer some other advice based on what we see...
 
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Old 10-23-14, 03:54 PM
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By the way... are there any 'hang tags' from previous service on the system anywhere? These should be filled out with what was done and often will list the nozzle size installed. That will tell us for sure what the system is firing at.
 
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Old 10-23-14, 03:58 PM
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The 1930 home uses water radiators in White Plains NY & uses ~3000 gallons/yr.
I find that very hard to believe.



You probably need max size 175K btu IMO...

Regarding the home heating contract we're considering that mentions it is for "residential oil heating equipment with a maximum firing rate of 2.5 gallons per hour", would you suggest I clarify if this boiler indeed would be a disqualifier for their superior rates?
Yes it would be disqualifier.

They have been told the property uses ~3000 gallons/yr so how much of an issue is this firing rate..?
Again I doubt it.. And if so thats about 12,000 bucks in fuel a year...

IMO first thing I would do is rip that monster out asap....

Others will chime in...
 
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Old 10-23-14, 04:06 PM
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sry posted after trooper...
 
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Old 10-23-14, 04:17 PM
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How much water is in the boiler and yes I know it is full . If it has a large volume of water and with the right size of nozzle may be able to get long on burner times with long burner off times and if the steady state efficiency is 80% or more the boiler could be very efficient as it will act as a storage battery for the btu produced , little short cycling.
 
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Old 10-23-14, 04:44 PM
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I dunno saves... I see where you are going with your thinking, but the fuel usage is contradicting your logic.

And that's IF the fuel usage that he was told is truth.

DIYSQ, was the 3000 gall / year hearsay? or did you see the cold hard facts?

By the way, there's 95 gallons of water in the boiler alone, not to mention what's in the 4" mains and all the radiators.
 
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Old 10-23-14, 04:48 PM
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To add insult to injury, just think of all the air inside the home (which you just paid to heat up) that is getting sucked through the boiler and up the chimney during it's 'off' cycle!

DIYSQ, is there at least a motorized damper on the flue pipe that closes when the boiler is OFF?


image courtesy supplyhouse.com

I don't know if these are available for the 10" flue that thing has.

Nope... sorry, only up to 8"

• Available in sizes 4"– 8"
 
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Old 10-23-14, 05:19 PM
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Lightbulb

Another reason I love the internet, that I could get such feedback..

I spoke with the POs & they said the installers of it told them this was more efficient..perhaps relative to what they had..but not what should have been installed..poster "saves" suggests it could be efficient & lawrosa-I was actually shown their usage that did correspond with ~3000 gallons/yr.

I did look at the many tags & noticed they replaced the burner in 2010 but most of the rest of the writing is not very legible..

NJ Trooper asked:

>How's the insulation and air tightness of the home?

Poor insulation with original 1930 windows, needs a lot work but there are some removable plastic double windows that seem ~20 years old..chimney was SS lined in 2010 with chimney cap that I'll try to locate more details but it doesn't look like the flue pipe is motorized.

>I would not be surprised at all if that fuel bill could be cut nearly in half with some energy efficiency improvements and a properly sized AND INSTALLED boiler system. I'm not far from you and I burn about 750-800 gallons to heat a 2000 sq ft home.

>How do you produce domestic hot water for the home?

Amtrol WHS80Z

>Did you mention if the system is ZONED? That is, more than one thermostat in the home?

Heating is not zoned.

would you suggest I clarify if this boiler indeed would be a disqualifier for their superior rates?
>You can try... but the terms seem pretty clear. Maybe they'll make an exception if they inspect and see that it's in good condition. Worth a shot I guess, can't hurt to ask.

Too bad because their rates are much better like 40-75 cents/gallon better than others, I'll try to see if they'd make an exception considering it seems to be in working condition & has never been an issue with other residential home heating companies & their service agreements..maybe get lucky there.

So how much would a new boiler-burner as recommended installed be & how long would it take to install & thoughts on natural gas (just asked a couple neighbors who use natural gas)?

Many thanks for this great forum,
 
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Old 10-23-14, 05:41 PM
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So how much would a new boiler-burner as recommended installed be & how long would it take to install & thoughts on natural gas (just asked a couple neighbors who use natural gas)?
Call the gas company and ask if NG can be run to the home. Often they will install a meter for free. You then have one yr to get a gas appliance installed..

If you can get gas then thats a whole new ball game... That is what you want...
 
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Old 10-23-14, 05:49 PM
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they said the installers of it told them this was more efficient..perhaps relative to what they had..but not what should have been installed
Yes, I'm sure relative to what they had...

Poor insulation with original 1930 windows
Insulation and air infiltration sealing should be on your agenda. These items will give the most bang for the buck when trying to improve energy efficiency of the home. Air infiltration is actually a larger proportion of heat loss than insulation believe it or not.

Attic insulation should be brought up to R40.

Spend some quality time with cans of that expanding foam and a caulking gun. If using that foam stuff, WEAR EYE PROTECTION! and nitrile gloves, and old clothes! If it gets in your eyes, you are on the way to the hospital. On your hands and it will be on there for a week or more. Clothes will be ruined.

Windows and doors should be the LAST thing on the list unless they are so bad that you literally can feel gust of air coming in. The installation cost of windows and doors is so high that it takes a LONG time for the ROI to come back.

Amtrol WHS80Z
Phew! I am glad you didn't say you were using a 'thankless coil' in the boiler.

But, this does bring up another issue. With a boiler that size, during the summer when you are only using it to heat domestic water, you are going to have to heat up that HUGE mass of cast iron and 100 gallons of water every time the water tank calls for heat.

Not as bad in the winter as the boiler will be warm most of the time anyway.

As efficient as indirect water heaters can be, this is not one of the situations in which it will be.

Then, add to this fact the BTUs that the boiler is going to shed after the tank is satisified. This adds load to your A/C system, and as the boiler cools after the tank is hot, there go dollars up the chimney.

Heating is not zoned.
In my opinion, this is a good thing with that much of an oversized boiler. I have no doubt that it 'short cycles' now, but imagine how badly it might short cycle if it were zoned and small zones were calling for heat.

Too bad because their rates are much better like 40-75 cents/gallon better than others
You may be able to find a 'maverick' oil dealer in your area that does COD delivery. Their prices are often low also.

So how much would a new boiler-burner as recommended installed be & how long would it take to install & thoughts on natural gas (just asked a couple neighbors who use natural gas)?
I'm not even going to try and guess a cost for replacement. Getting a ton and a half of boiler out of your basement is going to be a large part of the cost. It absolutely won't come out in one piece, it will have to be broken down (read smashed with sledgehammers) and brought out in pieces.

Switching to gas is almost a no-brainer. If you have gas available, that's what you want to do.

Make no mistake though, you need TOP NOTCH installers to do this job correctly.
 
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Old 10-23-14, 07:47 PM
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Lightbulb Great forums thanks

Thanks NJ Trooper, regarding air infiltration, it's windy right now here & you can actually feel it indoors including some doors & windows so I'd agree as well as with the summer water tank inefficiency issue.

The kitchen actually uses natural gas so shouldn't that make it easier..we have carbon monoxide detectors but if switching to a natural gas boiler, is that hazard more of an issue? An acquaintance who converted to natural gas I recall complained about gas leaks..

We've used COD oil delivery in another home but those always charge the going rate without any price cap plans. The price of oil has been dropping & projections I've seen expect that to continue but you never know about unexpected geopolitical events that could spike prices dramatically.

NJ Trooper wrote:

>I'm not even going to try and guess a cost for replacement. Getting a ton and a half of boiler out of your basement is going to be a large part of the cost. It absolutely won't come out in one piece, it will have to be broken down (read smashed with sledgehammers) and brought out in pieces. Switching to gas is almost a no-brainer. If you have gas available, that's what you want to do. Make no mistake though, you need TOP NOTCH installers to do this job correctly.

Did they bring this oversized boiler in in pieces? They told me they were charged about $12,000 back in 2001. Should a complaint be made against the installers-everyone here sounds so shocked by their actions? If this boiler lasted over a dozen years without issues apparently, we should be able to get through this season (possibly with a focus on efficiency elsewhere) or should it really be done asap? Could anyone recommend fair professional installers including energy efficiency evaluation of this matter serving Westchester NY?

Will call around tomorrow to see if other home heating companies have an issue with this boiler's firing rate before calling them back on their last day of their cancel period before the ETF takes effect to clarify what I discovered today & if they will cancel or amend their contract conditions of coverage limiting to 2.5 gph given the circumstances..

Again, really appreciate all the feedback
 
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Old 10-23-14, 08:13 PM
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The kitchen actually uses natural gas so shouldn't that make it easier.
It might... providing that the gas line from the street is large enough to support the kitchen AND the boiler.

we have carbon monoxide detectors but if switching to a natural gas boiler, is that hazard more of an issue?
If the boiler is properly installed, no.

An acquaintance who converted to natural gas I recall complained about gas leaks..
That's why it's so important to shop your installers VERY carefully.

Did they bring this oversized boiler in in pieces?
Yes, more than likely. It was probably a 'knock down' and assembled on site. The manual for the boiler has extensive instructions for assembly.

Should a complaint be made against the installers-
No, it would get you nowhere. There's no regulations or codes that I'm aware of that say anything about properly sizing boilers.

we should be able to get through this season (possibly with a focus on efficiency elsewhere) or should it really be done asap?
What you don't want to do is have a boiler replaced at the start of heating season. As long as it's in good shape, you won't have any issues (other than paying for some extra fuel) getting through the winter.

Could anyone recommend fair professional installers including energy efficiency evaluation of this matter serving Westchester NY?
Sorry, rules say we can't do this on the forum.
 
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Old 10-23-14, 08:17 PM
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Did anyone do a steady state efficiency test and if so what were the results . Why I am even talking about this is I have had great results taking a large boiler originally fired at 1.75 gal and by installing a new firing chamber to accept a 0.4 to 0.75 and firing a 0.75 nozzle I was able to get a stack temperature of 350f for a efficiency of about 85% . It gave me firing times of over 20 min. which is considered not to be shot cycling . I then installed an out door reset , insulated all the 3/4 copper heat pipes and this cost me a lot less than a new boiler. All I am trying to say is to not scrap a perfectly good boiler on the assumption a new boiler is going to automatically cut your heat bill in half as most of the time it doesn't happen. I believe you are allowed to reduce the flue size to match the fir rate as new flame retentions head burners produce a lot less volume of gas for the breaching to handle.
 
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Old 10-23-14, 08:36 PM
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But saves, how far do you think you can reduce the firing rate of a boiler that currently is firing at SEVEN AND A HALF GPH and has a combustion chamber of TEN CUBIC FEET?

I might tend to agree with you if the boiler were only say maybe two or even three times as large as needed, but this is an EIGHT SECTION, 2700 pound MONSTER BOILER! It's almost TEN TIMES as big as it needs to be.
 
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Old 10-24-14, 07:45 AM
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Cool

NJ Trooper wrote:

>What you don't want to do is have a boiler replaced at the start of heating season. As long as it's in good shape, you won't have any issues (other than paying for some extra fuel) getting through the winter.

Could anyone recommend fair professional installers including energy efficiency evaluation of this matter serving Westchester NY?
>Sorry, rules say we can't do this on the forum.

Thanks again NJ Trooper, we'll aim for addressing the potential replacement of this surprisingly oversized boiler after the heating season which does sound like a big job given its size. Feel free to PM me regarding recommending fair professional installers including energy efficiency evaluation of this matter serving Westchester NY if forum rules permit.

No steady state efficiency test that anyone's aware of has been done but before I call them today I'd still like to have a better understanding of why you think their home heating contract would uniquely have that limitation under conditions of coverage "for residential oil heating equipment with a maximum firing rate of 2.5 gallons per hour" when no other oil provider they dealt with & I've verified by looking at their contracts have such a condition of coverage considering the property seems to consistently use ~3000 gallons a year (+/-200 gallons depending on thermostat setting & weather)?

Would this boiler be significantly more likely to fail-malfunction-have service issues (was told ~2-3 service calls/yr, 1-2 for hot water issues, 1 for boiler that may not respond to reset button all apparently easily correctable without additional charges not covered in standard service plans of other home heating companies)?

I've also heard this company handles big commercial business like the local hospital so it doesn't sound like they could only handle smaller residential equipment & this oversized boiler is apparently not having a lot of service calls & the company did not seem to have an issue supplying 3000 gallons/yr so we're hoping they'll make an exception given our circumstances but I'd like to go into the conversation with a confident understanding of why they'd have such a unique limiting condition of coverage..

Lastly this boiler had its annual tune up-cleaning in March 2014, if given the choice should we have its annual tune up-cleaning asap closer to the beginning of the heating season or is once a year near the end of it ok assuming all seems currently functional?

Many thanks in advance,
 
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Old 10-24-14, 02:03 PM
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Thumbs up

I called the home heating oil company & was told by their customer service that they may put the service contract as commercial given the larger max firing rate but that they would follow up on the specific models with the technicians & get back to me.

So would this larger 7.5 gph max firing rate just fire 1/3 as long-often as 2.5 max firing rate to heat the same area or since-if less efficient perhaps fire 1/2 as long-often as 2.5 max firing rate?

Should also mention the last home heating company did suggest to the prior owners replacing "a circulator" for $895+tax but POs said that had to do with the Amtrol WHS80Z to get the hot water circulating faster to the higher floors & while it could definitely be faster it does work, any thoughts?

Thnx
 
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Old 10-25-14, 08:48 AM
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That is a big boiler and if there is no way to by pass some of the heat exchanger to maintain a stack temperature of at least 350f it could not be done. I can not believe no one has done an efficiency test on its installation and during annual cleaning not too professional. Since the stack temperature is not known there may be room to down size nozzle some . Removal of some of the cast iron sections may be an option.
 
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Old 10-25-14, 09:07 AM
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Should also mention the last home heating company did suggest to the prior owners replacing "a circulator" for $895+tax but POs said that had to do with the Amtrol WHS80Z to get the hot water circulating faster to the higher floors & while it could definitely be faster it does work, any thoughts?
Kinda sounds like a salesman's cow-poop 'upsell' to me.

That boiler would or should already have a huge circulator on it.

Can you take some pictures of the installation so we can see what you have?
 
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Old 10-25-14, 11:00 AM
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prior owners replacing "a circulator" for $895+tax but POs said that had to do with the Amtrol WHS80Z to get the hot water circulating faster to the higher floors & while it could definitely be faster it does work, any thoughts?
Probably there is a recirc line for DHW...Maybe the one there is bad, or they wanted to add one..

I wonder if the boiler is a warm start boiler as it would take ions to heat all that water. Can you take a pic of the controls on the boiler?
 
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Old 10-25-14, 03:40 PM
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I think yer right Mike, sounds like a domestic hot water recirc...
 
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Old 10-26-14, 09:55 PM
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Lightbulb

So after calling the home heating company about the firing rate issue they have instead offered a commercial coverage contract M-F 8AM-5PM for our Weil-McLain 78 Boiler with its Beckett Model CF1400 burner for $229 plus tax (an annual tune up cost would be $159 plus tax) & for the conventional Amtrol WHS80Z Indirect-Fired Water Heater would be $164.95 plus tax. Service calls beyond 8am to 5pm Monday - Friday would be subject to an additional diagnostic fee of $98 plus tax. Sound reasonable to you as it does to us given the circumstances? It would take >8 weekend service calls to not beat the next best offer considering their cap price & typical use of ~3,000 gallons/yr. If it doesn't violate forum rules & if helpful I could attach pdf files of what the contract covers & does not cover.

NJ Trooper wrote:

Kinda sounds like a salesman's cow-poop 'upsell' to me.

That boiler would or should already have a huge circulator on it.

Can you take some pictures of the installation so we can see what you have?

Photo attached-let me know if it helps- Many thanks
 
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Old 10-27-14, 12:47 AM
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Would have been nice if you had told us in the beginning that you have a STEAM boiler. This definitely skews much of the previously given advice.

What I would suggest is a firing rate much closer to that actually required for the heat loss of the house, best would be variable but that may also be economically improbable, along with a reduction in the flue size and the incorporation of a flue damper. Limp along with this while you do the other energy saving measures such as air sealing and insulation. Then think seriously about the boiler replacement. More likely as not you can get a gas conversion burner for that boiler and I would look for a variable firing rate burner. This work WILL take a highly competent technician.
 
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Old 10-27-14, 05:50 AM
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told us in the beginning that you have a STEAM boiler. This definitely skews much of the previously given advice.
Indeed... this info is somewhat of a 'game changer'.

The 1930 home uses water radiators
I suppose we should have questioned further... but this early statement is what led us down the wrong path.

One thing in particular that changes is the way a replacement steam boiler should be sized.

They aren't sized according to heat loss per se, but rather they need to be sized in order that the boiler matches the installed radiation. The square footage of the radiators should have been calculated and a boiler with appropriate ratings installed.

There is NO WAY that you can possibly have 2771 square feet of radiation in that home!

Since you have a steam system, I need to recommend some required reading. There is a fair amount of knowledge you need to have about your heating system.

http://www.amazon.com/Got-Steam-Heat.../dp/0974396001

This will be the best $25 you can spend on your system.

At this point, I would like to see a closer photo of the controls on the front of the boiler.
 
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Old 10-27-14, 01:11 PM
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In addition to the pictures requested by Trooper I would like to see some pictures of the radiators and the piping to-from the radiators.
 
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Old 10-27-14, 02:42 PM
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Lightbulb

Sorry steam radiators-boiler-e.g. Honeywell vaporstat etc, juggling a lot of balls lately.. Appreciate all the feedback..I'll be speaking with the company at 7PM about the aforementioned proposed service contracts, sound reasonable to you all in the interim?

Since a photo speaks a thousand words, here's some more & will post requested additional when I get the chance:

Name:  1BOILER CONTROLS.jpg
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Old 10-27-14, 03:29 PM
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Can you get close ups of the two control boxes please? I want to be able to see the settings.

If you're game, slide the cover off the control to the right, the one with the gray cover, and either photo, or tell us what the inside dial is set to as well.

Is that gauge sitting at zero PSI ? that's a 'compound' gauge, right? Reads vacuum to the left and pressure to the right?

Furd, is that proper to have no 'pigtail'? Does that lower pipe fill with water and prevent the live steam from hitting the gauge and the controls? Looks like a major PITA to take apart and clean when it gets all filled with crud.
 
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Old 10-27-14, 04:28 PM
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Furd, is that proper to have no 'pigtail'?
It is barely acceptable. I would prefer to see a bit longer nipple to allow for a greater depth of water seal, though. I would also replace all the elbows with plugged tees as well as a union in the vertical nipple to the boiler.

I want to see closer pictures as well. Especially the black nameplate to the right of the gauge glass and the black box sticking straight out of the pipe for the indirect water heater. That box appears to be a low-water cutoff and I want to see how it lines up with the lower gauge glass valve.

Another item is that there is no drain piping from either the gauge glass or the McDonnell-Miller model 67 low water cutoff. I wonder how long it has been since either was properly blown down.
 
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Old 10-27-14, 04:28 PM
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You should be able to remove that huge burner and replace it with a Rellio that will match the installed radiation.
 
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Old 10-27-14, 04:58 PM
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He has gas available but we don't know if it is of suitable volume. If he is going to replace the burner a gas burner makes more sense than a Ferrari (Reillo) oil burner. Downfiring with gas is much easier than with oil.
 
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Old 10-27-14, 07:21 PM
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I wonder just how far one could downfire a 10 cubic foot combustion chamber though?

makes more sense than a Ferrari
That's funny!
 
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Old 10-27-14, 08:07 PM
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The "furnace" (firing chamber) size is much less critical for gas than it is for oil. With oil you need a hot combustion area to help ignite the fuel. That isn't necessary with gas. There will, of course, be a lower overall efficiency factor than if the boiler was "right-sized" to the burner but not a huge penalty like would occur with oil.

Oh, Riello and not Reillo.

IF this system has a two-pipe distribution with steam traps at the individual radiators then thermostatic valves could be installed on the radiators for individual control. At that point the boiler could be fired to, say, 10-12 psi and shut down. The stored hot water would supply steam for quite some time and then fire again at about 1 or 2 psi. This would give long, but less frequent, burn times which would increase efficiency somewhat. A significant reduction in the flue outlet would also help and as I stated earlier a modulating burner would make this almost a decent system, one that could almost endorse. And you know how I feel about residential steam!
 
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Old 10-27-14, 08:33 PM
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IF this system has a two-pipe distribution with steam traps at the individual radiators then thermostatic valves could be installed on the radiators for individual control.
Thought you can use them with any piping scheme furd???
 
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Old 10-27-14, 08:44 PM
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I dunno, Mike. Since the condensate needs to exit the same way the steam enters on a one-pipe system I would think that a thermostatic valve would be a serious impediment.

Maybe this is yet another time I am wrong.
 
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Old 10-27-14, 10:10 PM
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I am not steam savoy... but I know they make them for any system...

Thermostatic Radiator Valves , Danfoss Thermostatic Radiator Valves , Danfoss Valves - SupplyHouse.com

How do they work with different systems???? ( Piping schemes)

I could not tell you....LOL/...
 
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Old 10-27-14, 11:36 PM
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Flame retention burners like Riello can fire into large steel firing chambers as the flame is kept at the end of the burner ,hence the name Flame Retention Burners. The old cast iron head burners needed to fire into a chamber that heated up to support the flame that's why it took 15 minutes or more to clean up the flame. A chamber can be bought that can be put into a 10 cubic chamber if using a Beckett burner that may need a smaller chamber to fire into to achieve a suitable flame. Riello may benefit also from such a chamber , I have always used them when down firing a large boiler.
 
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