Damper closing on call for heat

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Old 11-15-14, 07:45 AM
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Damper closing on call for heat

I have a Burnham P204 natural gas boiler. It stopped working, and so far I have replaced the transformer/relay, the thermostat, the damper, and the ignition module. (Honeywell s8610u3009) I wired the module just as specified, and I get no led on a call for heat and the damper closes. I did replace the damper harness as well with the specified plug for the s8610u. Reading other forums, I removed the 24v wire and hooked it to th-w. Damper opens, unit fires, works great, just doesn't cut out at 180. Led on ignition control indicates proper operation. I've been told that connecting 24v to th-w bypasses the safeties. More than frustrated! It's personal now! Lol. Can anyone help?
 
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Old 11-15-14, 08:59 AM
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I removed the 24v wire and hooked it to th-w. Damper opens, unit fires, works great, just doesn't cut out at 180.
What is the exact model of the control that you replaced?

Not cutting out at 180 is not a function of the ignition control.


and I get no led on a call for heat
Is your system zoned? with electric zone valves?
 
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Old 11-15-14, 09:31 AM
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Thanks for your reply. It's a Honeywell S8610U3009. The damper was replaced with a fields gvd6pl and the transformer/relay was a Honeywell R8285D5001. System is not zoned. Single zone and single igniter
 

Last edited by juniors05rk; 11-15-14 at 09:34 AM. Reason: forgot a answer
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Old 11-15-14, 10:10 AM
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OK, but what model ignitor did you REPLACE? What was there originally?

I believe you are probably correct in wiring the 24V wire to TH-W, but as I said, the fact that it doesn't cut out at high limit is not a function of that.

You've either miswired something, or your high limit control is defective. (or possibly the GVD damper was not a direct replacement... plug might be the same, but wired differently...)

What type of damper did you REPLACE?
 
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Old 11-15-14, 10:55 AM
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Sorry about that. It was a Honeywell S8610M1029.
 
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Old 11-15-14, 11:29 AM
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And damper was a Honeywell D80D which superceded to a d896, so the fields should have been a direct replacement. I also purchased the wiring harness that came with 6 adapters. I used the adapter for the honeywell. There was only one option for the honeywell igniter control
 
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Old 11-15-14, 04:59 PM
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Based on this from the install, your wire does need to go to TH-W on the new control.

If the old module had a vent damper connector but a vent damper was not installed, or if it did not have a vent damper connector, then connect the 25V (2) or 24V wire from the old module to the TH-W terminal on the S8610U. Do not use the 24V terminal on the S8610U.
Yes, you do have a vent damper, but it's not plugged into the control, therefore, TH-W is correct.

It is NOT bypassing any of the safety controls to do so.

I did replace the damper harness as well with the specified plug for the s8610u.

And damper was a Honeywell D80D which superceded to a d896, so the fields should have been a direct replacement. I also purchased the wiring harness that came with 6 adapters. I used the adapter for the honeywell. There was only one option for the honeywell igniter control
Wait... your old damper was NOT plugged into the ignitor control, there was a separate plug on the boiler wiring for that.

Did you plug the damper into the new ignitor control then?

You should have connected the new damper to the existing plug, NOT to the ignition control.

What did you do with the existing damper connector?
 
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Old 11-15-14, 05:06 PM
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The old damper had a 4 pin molex plug on the damper side and a 5 pin on the igniter side that plugged into p1 on the igniter control. The new damper has the same setup, but the igniter control didn't work with the existing honeywell harness, so I bought the fields harness thinking the wiring was different somehow
 
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Old 11-15-14, 05:21 PM
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What you're telling me isn't jiving with the Burnham wiring diagram I'm looking at.

Give me all the information from the boiler data plate please... full model number, any 'series' number, whatever can absolutely ID the model boiler you have so I can make sure I'm looking at the correct wiring diagram.

What I'm looking at shows that the boiler has this:

Ignition Module, Honeywell S8610M3009

and that this module does not have the damper connector on it.

The 1029 that you removed apparently DOES have the damper connector.

So, either I'm looking at the wrong manual, or someone in the past changed the 3009 to a 1029 and rewired the damper.

This may change what I've said previously about TH-W being the correct connection.
 
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Old 11-15-14, 05:23 PM
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One thing you can do to determine if it's a wiring error or a defective high limit is this:

Remove one of the wires from the high limit control and tape so it doesn't short to anything.

Turn boiler on and call for heat.

The burner should NOT fire with that wire disconnected. Does it?
 
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Old 11-15-14, 09:53 PM
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Give me all the information from the boiler data plate please... full model number, any 'series' number, whatever can absolutely ID the model boiler you have so I can make sure I'm looking at the correct wiring diagram.

It's a Burnham P-204A-WNI natural gas firing unit.


I disconnected both wires going into and out of the aquastat, and the boiler still fired.
 
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Old 11-16-14, 08:47 AM
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I disconnected both wires going into and out of the aquastat, and the boiler still fired.
Are you calling the HIGH LIMIT the aquastat? Does this aquastat look like this?


image courtesy supplyhouse.com

You disconnected both of the wires on the HIGH LIMIT switch?

If that's so, then you definitely have a wiring error.

I'll see what I can find on that model number, but I believe I was looking at the correct manual. This leads me to believe that either someone previously, or yourself, has made a DANGEROUS! wiring error.
 
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Old 11-16-14, 09:00 PM
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Ok, let me see if i can explain the wiring.

I wired the new transformer/relay just the same as the old one, black to black, white to white, yellow to yellow.

Coming out of the transformer, we have yellow going into the high limit switch, not aquastat, and red coming out of high limit that runs to the flame rollout sensor.

Other side of flame rollout sensor goes to blocked vent switch.

Other wire from blocked vent switch goes to th-w on the ignition control.

White wire "R" from the transformer to 24vgnd on the ignition control.

Black wire "C" from transformer to 24v on the ignition control.

Burner ground goes to gnd on ignition control.

Mv, mv/pv, and pv all are correct at the gas valve and ignition control.

The thermostat "R" goes to "R" on the transformer, and thermostat "W" goes to "G" on the transformer.

Given these to be the correct connections, I have no led on a call for heat, and damper closes.

However, if I hook 24v to th-w, damper opens, unit fires, led gives 9 flashes, then steady on for 4 seconds, then 9 flashes, steady on for 4 secs, and continues like that. Normal operation.

But the high limit doesn't cut the flame out at 180, and you know the rest.

The only conclusion I can come to, as you said earlier, is the damper harness isn't wired for the s8610u ignition module, unless you can figure something else.

I'm going to call fields tomorrow to see if they have run into this situation before.
 
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Old 11-16-14, 09:09 PM
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Just another side note: when i disconnected the high limit switch earlier, I had 24v hooked to th-w. Which if I'm reading correctly, shouldn't be hooked that way with a damper, only without.
 
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Old 11-16-14, 09:26 PM
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Here's what I'm looking at. Note that the damper is on a separate plug.

I'm going to modify this diagram (but maybe not tonight) to show what it should look like (regardless of actual wire colors) if the damper is plugged into the ignition control.



You said:

yellow to yellow.
According to this diagram, that's not correct.

Coming out of the transformer, we have yellow going into the high limit switch
This diagram calls that an ORANGE wire.

White wire "R" from the transformer to 24vgnd on the ignition control.

Black wire "C" from transformer to 24v on the ignition control.
This sounds whack too.

If this is the way you found it, then someone has definitely been hacking at the wiring.

Lemmee get to work on that revised diagram. When I post it, I'm going to leave the wire colors as is, so if they aren't the same colors, ignore them as long as the wire actually goes from the correct point to the correct point.
 
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Old 11-16-14, 09:59 PM
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OK, here's the way I think it should be wired.

Not 100% certain, but I believe with the damper plugged into the 8610, you should run the wire to the 24V terminal (6). I'll check this to be sure later.

 
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Old 11-17-14, 08:23 AM
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Not seeing a diagram on either post.
 
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Old 11-17-14, 09:03 AM
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They're there... do you have something set to not show images in your browser or something?

Try refreshing your browser maybe?
 
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Old 11-17-14, 01:47 PM
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No, I got the image of the high limit switch you attached the other day, but no diagrams came up. I also double checked my settings under my profile and it is set to accept images and attachments
 
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Old 11-17-14, 01:58 PM
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Weird... they show up fine here.

Try going to photobucket and snag them from there:

Original from Burnham manual:

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/d...psb4d7ff75.jpg


Modified:

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/d...ps9fcfb490.jpg
 
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Old 11-17-14, 02:27 PM
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I'll have to wait til I get home. Photobucket is blocked on my work computer.
 
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Old 11-17-14, 04:10 PM
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That's why the pics aren't showing up then... if PB is blocked, it would also block the links that are in the messages.

By the way, according to the install sheet for the 8610, I believe that after you get the wiring corrected you will in fact connect the wire from the BVS to the 24V terminal, and not the TH-W, as shown in the second diagram.
 
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Old 11-17-14, 05:54 PM
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Ok, let me ask this. According to the diagram, C on the transformer goes to 24v ground on the ignition control. Now, on this transformer, that wire is hot. Even coming into the junction box from the house, black is hot. If I'm reading the schematic correctly, white is hot and black is ground. Maybe this would be my problem? Wtf! Lol
 
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Old 11-17-14, 08:02 PM
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So, after switching the wires feeding the transformer, and following the diagram, I still didn't get anything. Remembering others posts, I moved the 24v wire to thw on the ignition control and voila! Turned thermostat all the way up, Call for heat was received, damper opened, unit fired. Turned thermostat all the way down, unit shut down. It's working perfectly again. I've been beating my head against the wall because of three wires. I'm not a total moron when it comes to repairing appliances, I've been fixing my own stuff for twenty years. My problem is i tend to over think things. Thank you for your patience, time, and knowledge. You made me go back to the basics and figure it out. Thanks again. This forum is great!
 
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Old 11-17-14, 08:17 PM
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Now, on this transformer, that wire is hot
Hot with respect to what? The 24VAC secondary of that transformer has C as the common (note that there is a wire to GROUND from the C terminal) and the R is the 'hot' of the 24VAC. The transformer secondary is isolated from the 120VAC primary.

It's working perfectly again.
BUT, the question is: Does the burner shut off on high limit now?
 
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Old 11-17-14, 09:01 PM
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Yes, I tested the high limit and it cut the unit of at 180. Like I was saying, with the hot and common being backward feeding the transformer, it made the ground, c, on the transformer hot, and r on the transformer common, which is what was causing all of my issues. With it wired correctly, it's now feeding 24 volt power through the safeties like it should. Before I switched the wires, the only way i could get power to the ignition was a direct wire from what was hot, c, to th-w, which was bypassing all safeties, hence no cut off from the limit. I hope that makes sense.
 
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