Boiler won't shut off


  #41  
Old 03-01-15, 11:02 AM
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"Those two blue wire nuts... undo and disconnect one of them.

Does the boiler stop?"


Yes the boiler stops when I undid and disconnected the wire with the blue wire nut.
 
  #42  
Old 03-01-15, 11:12 AM
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The problem is OUTSIDE the boiler.

Then the readings you previously gave about terminals 2 and 3 on the zone valves are totally confusing to me... what you have described is basically physically impossible!

Is there any kind of a control panel between the zone valves and the boiler, or are the wires coming from the zone valves terminals 2 and 3 directly to those two blue wire nuts?
 
  #43  
Old 03-01-15, 11:49 AM
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Here is a link to the only other device/component wired into the zone valves. It appears to be a transformer to drop down household voltage to the needed 24 VAC the zone system uses.

karen_hoffman1's Library | Photobucket

If the readings I described on the zone valves are physically impossible it must have been an error on my end. I am going to take the readings again to double check the results and will post back shortly.

Thank you again.
 
  #44  
Old 03-01-15, 12:23 PM
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Yes, that is a (improperly installed) transformer. It must be the power for the zone valves.

You've probably already re-connected the wire nut, but if you haven't yet, do this instead, or in addition to...

Switch your meter to read OHMS or CONTINUITY.

With the wire still disconnected, put the meter across the two wires that come from the zone valves.

When they are NOT calling for heat and the valves CLOSED, you should read OPEN CIRCUIT, NO CONTINUITY between those two wires.

If you set EITHER of the zone valves to call for heat, you should read a SHORT CIRCUIT, ZERO OHMS between those two wires.
 
  #45  
Old 03-01-15, 12:25 PM
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NEXT, with the wires STILL DISCONNECTED, do the same thing at terminals 2 and 3 of the zone valves.

If you see a difference between the two ends, something is wrong with that wire that runs from the zone valves to the boiler.
 
  #46  
Old 03-01-15, 12:37 PM
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RE-checked my meter readings -

"Measuring between terminals 1 & 2 , you should see 24VAC when the thermostat IS calling for heat and zero when it is not."

Check!

When BOTH of the valves are CLOSED, you should read 24 VAC between 2 & 3

Negative - with both thermostats calling for heat and both valves closed I now read 0 VAC between 2 & 3

When EITHER ONE of the valves are OPEN, you should read ZERO volts between 2 & 3

Check!

I will follow up with the continuity check you described. Thanks!
 
  #47  
Old 03-01-15, 12:51 PM
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When BOTH of the valves are CLOSED, you should read 24 VAC between 2 & 3

Negative - with both thermostats calling for heat and both valves closed I now read 0 VAC between 2 & 3
I think you meant " with both thermostats NOT calling for heat, didn't you?

This was done with the wire that you removed CONNECTED again, is that right?

The OTHER test that I gave you with the meter set to OHMS was with the wire NOT connected.

OK, we're almost there.
 
  #48  
Old 03-01-15, 02:04 PM
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I think we are losing each other a little bit and I'm sure it's on my end.

I will work on the continuity tests and report back but there is a good amount of wires bundled and zip tied and it looks like the may take a bit to undo, untangle and get the proper readings.

Thanks
 
  #49  
Old 03-01-15, 02:28 PM
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OK, let's recap then:

Disconnecting the wire nut caused the boiler to stop firing.

That means the problem is outside the boiler, that I'm sure of.

Those two wires in the wire nuts inside the boiler should ultimately find their way back to terminals 2 and 3 on the zone valves.

Inside each zone valve, wired to terminals 2 and 3, is an ENDSWITCH.

When the valve OPENS, this endswitch CLOSES, MAKES CONTACT.

When that endswitch makes contact, it triggers the boiler to fire.

The endswitches are in PARALLEL, terminal 2 on one valve to terminal 2 on the other valve.

Same with terminal 3.

So EITHER valve opening will trigger the boiler. It's a logical OR condition.


This diagram may help...

 
  #50  
Old 03-01-15, 02:40 PM
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"Switch your meter to read OHMS or CONTINUITY.

With the wire still disconnected, put the meter across the two wires that come from the zone valves.

When they are NOT calling for heat and the valves CLOSED, you should read OPEN CIRCUIT, NO CONTINUITY between those two wires."
Check!


If you set EITHER of the zone valves to call for heat, you should read a SHORT CIRCUIT, ZERO OHMS between those two wires.
Check!


For the additional continuity check. of the two blue wire nuts I removed from inside the boiler one wire was red one was white. On the zone valve there is a white wire in terminal 1 and red wires in terminals 2 & 3. You said check continuity between terminals 2 & 3. So when I connect one end of the meter to the white wire(from blue wire nut inside boiler) what terminal (2 or 3) should I check on the zone valve because the white wire is actually connected to terminal 1? Also which zone terminal 2 or 3 should I check for the red wire(from blue wire nut inside boiler)?

Thanks
 

Last edited by NJT; 03-01-15 at 03:11 PM.
  #51  
Old 03-01-15, 03:05 PM
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When they are NOT calling for heat and the valves CLOSED, you should read OPEN CIRCUIT, NO CONTINUITY between those two wires."
Check!
Again, this is making no sense at all.

If when checking those two wires for continuity with NO heat call, you are measuring OPEN CIRCUIT, then connecting them to the wires on the boiler should not, can not, cause the boiler to fire!

For the additional continuity check. of the two blue wire nuts I removed from inside the boiler one wire was red one was white. On the zone valve there is a white wire in terminal 1 and red wires in terminals 2 & 3. You said check continuity between terminals 2 & 3. So when I connect one end of the meter to the white wire(from blue wire nut inside boiler) what terminal (2 or 3) should I check on the zone valve because the white wire is actually connected to terminal 1? Also which zone terminal 2 or 3 should I check for the red wire(from blue wire nut inside boiler)?
I'm not following this at all...

The WHITE and RED wires inside the boiler should go back to terminals 2 and 3 on the zone valves as shown in my drawing.

The WHITE wire on terminal 1 of the valve should be coming from it's respective thermostat, NOT from the boiler.

It can NOT, SHOULD not be the same white wire from the boiler on terminal 1 of the zone valve.

Physically follow that red and white pair from the boiler back to the zone valves.

Compare to the diagram I posted.

Pictures never do wiring justice, but try and show me the wiring in photos as best you can.

Identify the two wires coming from the two thermostats. I hope you find that the wire on terminal 1 is coming from the thermostat.
 
  #52  
Old 03-01-15, 03:07 PM
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By the way, you should also find that the red and white wire nutted wires from the zone valve are going to the R and G terminals in the boiler.

The drawing I posted of the zone valve wiring is for a different control with T T terminals on it.

Those T T terminals are analogous to the R and G terminals on your control.
 
  #53  
Old 03-01-15, 03:16 PM
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Yes I was trying to attempt to do this without undoing the bundled and zip tied wires which is never a good idea. I'll add some pictures of the wiring. I will have to revisit this tomorrow as I have a parent in the hospital that I have to deal with also.

http://s1383.photobucket.com/user/ka...=recent&page=1

Thank you again for baring with me and for your help! I'll check back in tomorrow when I unbundle the wiring and get the proper readings.
 

Last edited by Stratoman; 03-01-15 at 03:40 PM.
  #54  
Old 03-01-15, 03:36 PM
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No problem...

Sorry to hear about your parent, I hope all the best.
 
 

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