Circulator pump just burned out, need advice for replacement


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Old 12-31-14, 05:36 PM
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Circulator just burned out, need advice for replacement

Hello everyone,

The circulator pump on my hot water boiler burnt out, literally, I saw flames from the inside of the pump unit.

I want to do the replacement myself, but have some questions.

What is a recommended pump to replace? My boiler is a Weil McClain CGM-4 Series 7 with DOE 83000 BTUs. The current circulator pump is a Taco 1/12 HP 2.20A pump. I would rather pickup locally as I am in Philadelphia and it's cold outside right now. If I ordered online, I won't get the product until Monday 1/5/15.

I don't have any shutoff valves before the pump, so I will have to drain the system (not a problem).

Is re-wiring complicated?

Also, my house still has some shared knob/tubing wire and the electrical wire that supplies power to the boiler is on a 20A breaker with a 15A Buss fuse in-line. I want to run a dedicated 12/2 wire with 20A breaker directly to the panel box for this heater. Will I still need the in-line fuse if I re-wire and is this sufficient wiring/breaker capacity for this heater?

Also, would it be beneficial to add a shutoff valve for the circulator pump to make it easier to change in the future?

I can't add two shutoff valves (on each side of the pump) because one side of the pump is connected to the boiler drain connecting pipe.

Here are some pics. Please let me know if there are any additional questions. Thanks in advance.

Circulator pump:

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Wiring:

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Last edited by supersnake83; 12-31-14 at 06:02 PM.
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Old 12-31-14, 06:02 PM
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This is the model circulator I have: 110-24 - Taco 110-24 - 110 Cast Iron Three-Piece Circulator Pump, 1/12 HP

Do I need to keep the same pump or can I change the size?

I could order the motor assembly, but would rather replace the whole circulator it as it's not worth the hassle if the motor assembly doesn't fix the problem.

Thanks.
 
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Old 12-31-14, 06:09 PM
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Nowadays, the preference is for a wet-rotor pump, such as the Taco 007 instead of three-piece pumps, Make sure that the flange-to-flange distance is the same.

To a reasonably experienced DIYer, the wiring should be obvious. Best to call an experienced pro.
 
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Old 12-31-14, 06:16 PM
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Thanks. I know I can handle the replacement, so the wiring of the circulator won't be a problem.

For the Taco 007 model, is there a specific model I should buy based on the performance of the old one?
 
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Old 12-31-14, 06:53 PM
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No, the 007 pump is pretty much all-purpose, and is the lowest cost. If you have just a single pump, probably no need for the one with a built-in check valve (IFC). Go with cast-iron pump, not bronze, etc. Should cost about $75 or less.
 
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Old 12-31-14, 07:07 PM
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Thanks. I've been looking based on the flange size and the spec sheet for the 110 specifies a 6 5/16 flange size. The Taco 007 is 6 3/8.

I'm still looking for an exact fit. I won't modify the piping and add a shut off vavle. It will make this too complicated. I am, however, interested in running a dedicated power line for the heater, but will wait for the question in my original post to be answered.

Having hard time finding an exact fit Taco replacement by flange size.
 
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Old 12-31-14, 07:20 PM
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Hate to tell ya this, but you may have another issue...



It appears that you've got some serious 'rollout' issues. That scorched paint and overheated metal isn't normal.

The 007 will surely do the job, the pump curves are quite similar in the range that your pump will be operating.

Also, would it be beneficial to add a shutoff valve for the circulator pump to make it easier to change in the future?
I can't add two shutoff valves (on each side of the pump) because one side of the pump is connected to the boiler drain connecting pipe.
Adding just one valve isn't going to help much as gravity would still push water up and out of the boiler.

Also, my house still has some shared knob/tubing wire and the electrical wire that supplies power to the boiler is on a 20A breaker with a 15A Buss fuse in-line. I want to run a dedicated 12/2 wire with 20A breaker directly to the panel box for this heater. Will I still need the in-line fuse if I re-wire and is this sufficient wiring/breaker capacity for this heater?
I can't guess at why they did that with the separate fuse...

Yes, 12/2 on a 20A breaker is fine, no you won't need the in-line fuse.
 
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Old 12-31-14, 07:22 PM
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How is this boiler vented?

When was the last time it was cleaned (or at least inspected) ?

Do you have functioning CO detectors in the home?
 
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Old 12-31-14, 07:38 PM
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How is this boiler vented?
Flue pipe to the chimney.

When was the last time it was cleaned (or at least inspected)
We had it inspected last year when we had a plumber add the auto fill valve. He noticed the scorched metal and watched the heater after it was on for a while and thought the rollout might have been a problem in the past and was fixed. Any way for me to determine if it is still a problem now?

Do you have functioning CO detectors in the home?
Yes, one on the first level and one on the second level (at the recommendation of the fire department).
 
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Old 12-31-14, 08:17 PM
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Yes, 12/2 on a 20A breaker is fine, no you won't need the in-line fuse.
Thanks for answering this. I assume I should stick with armored cabled? Is regular 12/2 NM allowed to be wired that close to a heater?

Also, for removing the 110 with 6 5/16 flange space and going with the 007 with 6 3/8, do I have to modify the pipe to accommodate the 1/16" space difference?

My Taco 110 is also installed with the two 1/8 rubber gasket (http://www.supplyhouse.com/pex/contr...t_id=110-023RP).

Can I reuse these and would this solve my 1/16" space issue

Also, is using the old flanges okay or should I purchase a new pair?

Thanks.
 

Last edited by supersnake83; 12-31-14 at 09:25 PM.
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Old 01-01-15, 05:38 AM
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For me to install the Taco 007, it looks like I may have to modify the pipe. The 110 is installed with only one of the 1/8 rubber gaskets. The total space between the flanges is 6 9/16 (what I measured). With all the simple math I did, something is not adding up, but here are the few calculations I did:

Taco 110 distance between flanges is Factory spec at 9 5/16 (I also did do a physical measurement and got the same thing).

I measured 6 9/16 between flange mount bolts (between the copper pipe and the boiler drain mount).

6 9/16 - 1/8 (accounting for one rubber gasket) = 6 7/16. The extra 1/8" space isn't making since to me as to how this is a tight seal. The physical numbers also add up to 6 7/16 (the taco 110 flange distance of 6 5/16 + 1/8).

Lets say I purchased 2 new 1/8 gaskets, my numbers would be: 6 3/8 (taco 007) + 1/4 (2 x 1/8 gaskets)=6 5/8.

Or 6 3/8 + 1/8 (using one gasket as currently installed)= 6 1/2.

Why all the numbers, for me to hope I did not have the inevitable task of modifying the pipe. The piping around my boiler is also mixed. It's mainly iron pipe with some copper mixed in, so I don't have that much flexibility.

I know rubber gaskets help tighten the seal, but installing both would make the space tighter, which I hope the rubber can compress enough to make the taco 007 fit without me modifying pipe.

I am probably over complicating matters, but I like to do things once and avoid errors.

Thanks.
 
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Old 01-01-15, 05:52 AM
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Your over thinking this.Get new gaskets make sure old flange and bolts are clean and replace circ. Pipe will drop or pull to take up difference.Body of new circ. will just point a different way.Looks like bx will even reach. Good luck.
 
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Old 01-01-15, 06:32 AM
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Thanks. That was my plan to go at it. Luckily, one Home Depot in my area has all three items (circ, flanges and rubber gasket). I'm now waiting in the parking lot for the store to open. Forgot they have modified hours for New Years.

Thanks and happy new years. I'll post results.
 
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Old 01-01-15, 06:39 AM
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Don't think you need the flanges. Get a bolt set if yours are beat.Happy New Year to you too.
 
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Old 01-01-15, 08:32 AM
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I assume I should stick with armored cabled? Is regular 12/2 NM allowed to be wired that close to a heater?
In general most codes will allow NM if it's adequately protected from physical damage, i.e. it comes out of the breaker panel and runs along a framing member to a box.

Any places that the cable runs unsupported should be MC (armored), like from the box to the boiler, or the boiler to the pump... you should never 'hang' NM cable.

Yes, the heat issue is also a factor... but in addition to above.

So, if you have a junction box on the wall with say an 'emergency switch', you generally can run NM up to that box, then switch to MC to the boiler.

Can I reuse these and would this solve my 1/16" space issue
No, never reuse a flange gasket.

The 110 is installed with only one of the 1/8 rubber gaskets
Huh? no gasket on one side? How is it NOT leaking?

You need gaskets on both sides.
 
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Old 01-01-15, 11:02 AM
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Crisis averted.

Picked up the new circulator, got home and went to work.

Drained the system (30 minutes); turned off electricity to boiler; disconnected old circ and removed; cleaned flanges of stuck rubber; rotated the motor on the new 007 to put on the outside, installed new red gaskets, new circ, tightened bolts to light to moderate tightness, connected electrical wire; then restored electricity. This all took about 20 minutes.

Turned on the water, bled the system, lit the pilot, and started the boiler.

Simple $90 repair. Priceless advice!

I did over-complicate the measurements as I had some give with the copper. I am always thinking to precision.

NJ, there was a second gasket, just not the red type. It was a small circular gasket, but not like the new one with the 007. It was unnoticeable until I was at eyesight view with the flange.

I am also interested in investigating the rollout. Any advice on what to monitor?

Also, I will run dedicated 14/2 if that is ok. The circ uses .71A. Not sure what the heater requires, but is 14/2 and a 15A breaker sufficient?

Pic of new circ:

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Thanks.
 
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Old 01-01-15, 03:01 PM
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Simple $90 repair. Priceless advice!
Ekskellent... ya done good Snake!

I am also interested in investigating the rollout. Any advice on what to monitor?
I think first thing I would do is take a mirror and flashlight and see if I could eyeball UP inside the boiler to examine the flue passages. Look for any big rust flakes blocking them.

Has the unit ever been brushed down?

Here is a link to the manual for that boiler:

http://www.weil-mclain.com/en/multim...gm7install.pdf

Page 6 explains how to clean.

Your boiler does not have the safety devices that newer models do, namely a ROLLOUT and a BLOCKED VENT switch.

You might consider adding them. They would be wired in series with the 24VAC to the gas valve. I'm sure you can use the items from later CGM models... you might need to fashion a mounting bracket though...

512-050-230 - Weil Mclain 512-050-230 - Rollout Thermal Fuse Element, 228C

510-300-014 - Weil Mclain 510-300-014 - Spill Switch w/ Manual Reset, 240F for CG, CGA, CGx Boilers

Is the boiler located in a fairly 'airtight' area? Are there other items such as clothes dryer, or anything that will pull air from the home in the same area?

How is the draft in the chimney? Take a cigar, cigarette, incense, joint, or whatever that makes smoke and hold it near the atmospheric hood. Do you get a good strong draw up the chimney?

If you do have a clothes dryer in the area, do the same test with the dryer running.

Also, I will run dedicated 14/2 if that is ok. The circ uses .71A. Not sure what the heater requires, but is 14/2 and a 15A breaker sufficient?
While I'm sure that you can use a 15A circuit, better check your local codes... they might require a dedicated 20A circuit.
 
 

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