InFloor Heating System - HELp Identifying Valve.


  #1  
Old 01-03-15, 10:09 AM
R
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
InFloor Heating System - HELp Identifying Valve.

We have a InFloor system installed in our home and were trying to identify the valves and gauges in the system. We have this one

Can anyone help us with how does this one work and it name or Brand?

Thanks so much in advance.
 
  #2  
Old 01-03-15, 10:36 AM
S
Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: United States
Posts: 3,427
Received 127 Likes on 119 Posts
That is your automatic air release valve for your system. It is a spirovent and should not have a cap on the end. By having that capped you are preventing it from releasing air and doing its job. REMOVE the cap.
 
  #3  
Old 01-03-15, 10:46 AM
R
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Thanks so much, we bought this house with the system in, the cap did seem odd and has been tightened with pliers.

Will remove ASAP. Like right now !!

Is there a Manual somewhere to read about that valve?

Appreciate your help.

Regards.
 
  #4  
Old 01-03-15, 11:02 AM
S
Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: United States
Posts: 3,427
Received 127 Likes on 119 Posts
If you Google Spirovent you should find it. Basically its only job is to automatically remove any unwanted air that may get into the system. Any time frest water is introduced into a system it brings air with it and must be removed to allow the water to flow. This spirovent will remove the bulk of the air.
If you go on youtube and type in spirovent, go to Emerson Swan demonstration of air removal and you'll see how it works.
 
  #5  
Old 01-03-15, 11:09 AM
R
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Did Google the valve and found it. Thanks so much Spott for all the great info.

Superb help!!
 
  #6  
Old 01-03-15, 11:16 AM
PJmax's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Jersey
Posts: 71,620
Received 3,322 Likes on 2,983 Posts
Here is an informative piece on the valve.

supply house/manuals/1351092281444/85181_PROD_FILE.pdf
 
  #7  
Old 01-03-15, 12:11 PM
NJT's Avatar
NJT
NJT is offline
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 23,538
Likes: 0
Received 8 Likes on 6 Posts
OK... yes, for normal operation the cap needs to be removed.

There's a BUT...

Sometimes they leak. When they do, it is OK in my opinion to cap them... or better yet, buy a 1/2" threaded ball valve and screw it onto the vent valve.

Open the ball valve occasionally to release any air that's trapped and then close it again.

Basically what you are doing by adding the ball valve is turning it into a MANUAL air vent, rather than AUTOMATIC.

You could also purchase a new top piece and replace it...

This is ONLY IF it leaks water when you remove the cap.
 
  #8  
Old 01-03-15, 01:33 PM
S
Member
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: canada
Posts: 567
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Does your system have a bladder type expansion tank?
 
  #9  
Old 01-03-15, 06:47 PM
R
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Yes it does...

Also, is there a PEX 1/2" pipe that has copper inside? We have this, yes it is busted with Ice.



What kind of Piping is it?

Thanks guys.
 
  #10  
Old 01-03-15, 07:22 PM
NJT's Avatar
NJT
NJT is offline
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 23,538
Likes: 0
Received 8 Likes on 6 Posts
There is PEX with an ALUMINUM layer embedded in the PEX, but not copper.

I think what you've got there is copper tubing with a protective polyethylene coating.

Plumbing Coated Copper Tubing

What all does it say on the tubing? Can't read most of it...

Read this about your expansion tank... you will need to know this soon.

http://www.doityourself.com/forum/bo...sion-tank.html

That plastic 120V wire should NEVER have been used to wire that boiler.

There is no cover plate on that outlet and switch box... that's a hazard... and is that REALLY that close to the floor? What is that plugged into the outlet? What is the switch for?

Did the home inspector say nothing about this when you purchased the home?
 
  #11  
Old 01-03-15, 07:24 PM
NJT's Avatar
NJT
NJT is offline
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 23,538
Likes: 0
Received 8 Likes on 6 Posts
Please take a bunch more pics of EVERYTHING around the boiler.

We want you to be safe... let us inspect the system for you.
 
  #12  
Old 01-03-15, 08:00 PM
R
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Here is a better view of the writings on the pipes ....



Thanks. Will send more pictures ..

The Plug into the outlet is a Polarity Checker Probe.
 
  #13  
Old 01-03-15, 08:17 PM
R
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Here are some shots !
































 
  #14  
Old 01-03-15, 08:23 PM
R
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Here are some more Pictures ...





We were wondering: What is this for?

 
  #15  
Old 01-03-15, 10:34 PM
NJT's Avatar
NJT
NJT is offline
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 23,538
Likes: 0
Received 8 Likes on 6 Posts
Oh...

my...

goodness...

I'm almost speechless...

That's a first for me!

I'll spend some time looking these over tomorrow.

I do see one thing right off the bat that needs repair:

On the left side, that bottom circulator flange has been leaking for quite some time.

 
  #16  
Old 01-03-15, 10:39 PM
NJT's Avatar
NJT
NJT is offline
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 23,538
Likes: 0
Received 8 Likes on 6 Posts
Oh, and this... your SpiroVent ...



The reason it's capped is because I'm sure it was/is leaking.

They are supposed to be installed VERTICALLY.

They will not operate properly tilted like this!

There's a float inside that won't move properly if it is tilted.

So either leave the cap on, or put a valve on there as described previously.
 
  #17  
Old 01-03-15, 10:42 PM
NJT's Avatar
NJT
NJT is offline
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 23,538
Likes: 0
Received 8 Likes on 6 Posts
This is like that game "Can you find 10 things wrong with this picture"

One more and I'm done for tonight.

To the left of the gauge, there is a 'swing check' valve on the pipe from the water heater.

It can't work in the vertical position like this. These only work when installed horizontally.

[edit] Let me qualify this statement ... A swing check will work installed VERTICALLY IF the flow is UP. Look for the arrow, if it's pointing down, it's WRONG.

Also, when swing checks are installed vertically flowing UP, they can have a nasty habit of causing water hammer when they SLAM shut [end edit]

 

Last edited by NJT; 01-04-15 at 05:42 PM.
  #18  
Old 01-04-15, 01:41 PM
R
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Fantastic NJ Trooper!!! Will wait till you analyze the pictures and give us the great input before we start RE-working this old boiler. It was installed in 1996-98 and seems that maintenance was very little or none!.

We did open the Pressure Relieve Valve and found it CLOGGED.()

... Cleaned it and got the system back up FOR NOW .... until we fix ALL of you suggestions for sure.

I really appreciate all of you guys giving us this excellent feedback.

Thanks much !!
---------

Were wondering how does this valve work and how could I set it right?



--------

About that Switch ... It turns the Boiler ON and OFF

 

Last edited by rirussdoi; 01-04-15 at 02:38 PM.
  #19  
Old 01-04-15, 04:49 PM
NJT's Avatar
NJT
NJT is offline
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 23,538
Likes: 0
Received 8 Likes on 6 Posts
We did open the Pressure Relieve Valve and found it CLOGGED
You intend to replace it right?

Are you on city or private well water?

I'm still trying to get a grip on what all is going on there... but:

Were wondering how does this valve work and how could I set it right?
The appears to be a 4-way mixing valve. Is there any make/model information on it?

Looks like this one, doesn't it?

https://ecomfort.com/search?orderby=...ubmit_search=1

It's purpose is to control the temperature of the water going to the radiant floor tubing and still allow the boiler to fire to a higher temperature. It's not good to run super hot water to radiant floors, or to allow the boiler to fire too cold.

Those are thermometers above and to the right, yes?

What temps are they showing when the system is calling for heat?

About that Switch ... It turns the Boiler ON and OFF
Why on Earth would they have mounted it down there?

Do you know who installed this system? Pro or homeowner?

Typically that switch would have a RED cover plate and be mounted somewhere distant from the boiler, like the entrance to the boiler room, or at the top of the basement stairs... so that one could kill the power to the boiler in the event of an emergency and not have to walk up to it and kneel down in front of it.

Then, there's always the 'Wires Over Water' rule...
 
  #20  
Old 01-04-15, 05:03 PM
NJT's Avatar
NJT
NJT is offline
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 23,538
Likes: 0
Received 8 Likes on 6 Posts
Here is a better view of the writings on the pipes ....
That "ASTM F1281" is a specification number for PEX-AL-PEX, which is the PEX with the ALUMINUM oxygen barrier in it.

Strange that it sure does look like copper.

Is there a manufacturers name on the tubing anywhere?
 
  #21  
Old 01-04-15, 05:19 PM
NJT's Avatar
NJT
NJT is offline
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 23,538
Likes: 0
Received 8 Likes on 6 Posts


That's the connection from the tank's thermostat. The wire should be going to either the boiler or the Taco panel.

It looks as if it might not be pushed in all the way. Is the hot water heater working?

The red/blue knob you may already know is the temperature control for the hot water.
 
  #22  
Old 01-04-15, 05:22 PM
NJT's Avatar
NJT
NJT is offline
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 23,538
Likes: 0
Received 8 Likes on 6 Posts
None of this wire is allowed to be plastic by National Electric Codes...



You didn't answer about whether the home inspector said anything at all about any of this in his report... did he?
 
  #23  
Old 01-04-15, 05:31 PM
NJT's Avatar
NJT
NJT is offline
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 23,538
Likes: 0
Received 8 Likes on 6 Posts
I believe I've answered my question about city water / private well.

In the first pic in post #13 at the upper left I see what appears to be a pressure switch... so you are almost certainly on private well.

Thankfully that switch is up out of the way so curious fingers can't easily touch it... but it should have a cover on it.

There's 240VAC exposed on those terminals! Someone touches that and they can be KILLED!
 
  #24  
Old 01-04-15, 05:45 PM
R
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
--Yes, we will definitely replace that Pressure Valve entirely.

--We have well water.

The water Heater works if we MANUALLY open the Control Valve Connected to the Taco Control Panel and hold it locked until the water gets Hot, then we release it until we use the Hot water and repeat...

Water Heater Control was off Valve because it leaked (suspected) we placed it back on and worked it Manually with a little drip --For Now--






--What type of wire should we replace it with? The one on it is the white 12Gauge 'normal wire'


--Here is a better view of the Brand on the pipes. Can these be spliced with the SharkBite connector if there is enough slack?



--Mixing valve is one you showed us.

--Will completely MOVE the ON/OFF switch out of the Boiler Room.

--There is some paperwork which indicates that it was Installed by the Makers?? Not totally sure though.

Greatly appreciate your input, really. Thanks
 
  #25  
Old 01-04-15, 05:47 PM
NJT's Avatar
NJT
NJT is offline
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 23,538
Likes: 0
Received 8 Likes on 6 Posts
I added to post #17...

Because I see another vertically mounted swing check all the way up at the upper left, this one is on one of the pipes from your well. It appears to be flowing UP ... look for the arrow.

It will work flowing up, but you may experience water hammering when it slams shut.



Also in this pic, that black wire that goes from the Taco panel to the box with the transformer on it is not allowed. It looks like there's another piece of that black cable coming out and going down the wall ... waita minnit ! ... you moved that wire! What is that, an extension cord?
 
  #26  
Old 01-04-15, 05:58 PM
NJT's Avatar
NJT
NJT is offline
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 23,538
Likes: 0
Received 8 Likes on 6 Posts
--Here is a better view of the Brand on the pipes. Can these be spliced with the SharkBite connector if there is enough slack?
You may be able to use Sharkbite if the O.D. of that tubing is correct.

Hmmmm... Kitec eh? You might wanna read some of this... or maybe you don't:

Kitec Plumbing System Products Liability Litigation

Kitec Plumbing and Brass Fittings – Kitec Class Action and Repipe Information By Delta Mechanical « Kitec Plumbing

IPEX Kitec Plumbing Class Action Lawsuit Settlement

No... you didn't want to hear this... sorry.
 
  #27  
Old 01-04-15, 05:59 PM
R
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Amazing ............ You sure have very sharp vision. Yes, you are right. That cable that went down was the feed to the TACO panel and it was 'Plugged in' to an outlet that was behind the Water heater which was right below a drip, thus rusting out that outlet.. We immediately (and first thing) moved that feed to a 'better' source on the left side of the Boiler room which is DRY!!
 
  #28  
Old 01-04-15, 06:00 PM
NJT's Avatar
NJT
NJT is offline
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 23,538
Likes: 0
Received 8 Likes on 6 Posts
--What type of wire should we replace it with? The one on it is the white 12Gauge 'normal wire'
Should all be done in the metallic sheathed cable... type MC ... like the piece that runs from the pump on the wall to the transformer box.
 
  #29  
Old 01-05-15, 07:04 AM
R
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
You didn't answer about whether the home inspector said anything at all about any of this in his report... did he
We certainly went back and looked at the Home Inspectors Report and there is nothing about all of the REAL problems we are aware Now about all of this. The home is way out of City limits and we assume these are less strict when the inspection is done??? Will keep you informed.
 
  #30  
Old 01-08-15, 07:44 AM
R
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Another question: The Taco Panel has the Zones. I place the Meter Probe on the little screws (red arrow) to read voltage and I don't get a reading. Is there a readin off of these Terminals?

 
  #31  
Old 01-08-15, 07:54 AM
NJT's Avatar
NJT
NJT is offline
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 23,538
Likes: 0
Received 8 Likes on 6 Posts
You should see 24 V AC (note, NOT DC) at those terminals when the thermostat is NOT calling for heat.

When thermostat IS calling for heat, ZERO Volts is what you should read.
 
  #32  
Old 01-08-15, 09:46 AM
R
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Thanks so much... Was a bit confused because I was obviously reading it when it was calling and got nothing (0)!

That makes sense now.

Regards.
 
 

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
 
Ask a Question
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: