Taco Relay Switching Box Problem


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Old 02-10-15, 08:11 PM
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Taco Relay Switching Box Problem

Hi,
First time poster and new member here, I would like to ask if anyone might be able help me with my relay box problem? I heat with wood and usually donít use my oil heat. Now I am going on a family vacation soon, my heat wont come on and I cannot leave my house without heat, up here in New England.
So here it is, I am having a problem with my Taco SR 506 EXP 6 ĖZone switching relay box. My heating system is an oil burning furnace with forced hot water heat, my furnace is working fine. I have hot water for my sinks and bathrooms but none of the circulators for the 4 zones will go on from the box without manually shorting out the terminals in the Taco box.
On the Taco box the green power light is on and the zone lights are red, calling for heat. There is 24Vac coming off the coil. The relays switch when the t-stat wires are shorted but the circulator pumps do not come on. However, when I short out the terminals below the relays, the circulator for each zone being shorted will kick on without hesitation.
I cannot figure out why this box will not kick the circulators without being shorted, can anyone help me with this problem.
It is probably something easy or obvious that I am overlooking.
Thanks in advance,
Tom
 
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Old 02-10-15, 08:37 PM
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Welcome to the forums.

I'm not the pro here but I have one thought. Is the controller set up for a priority zone for the domestic hot water ?

If it is.... try turning the priority switch off.
 
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Old 02-10-15, 08:50 PM
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Thank you for the response, the priority zone is off. Good call though. The box was installed about two years ago it replaced a not relay system. I may not have ever used it since being installed. I wonder if the wiring to circulators is wrong?
 
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Old 02-10-15, 08:58 PM
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Is it possible to shoot a nice, clear, bright picture of it and post it here ?
http://www.doityourself.com/forum/electrical-ac-dc/534445-how-insert-images.html
 
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Old 02-10-15, 09:04 PM
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I can post pictures, but I will have to post in the morning. I will take a picture of the Taco box and board and the circulators. Is there anything else I should include?

Thanks,
Tom
 
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Old 02-10-15, 09:09 PM
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Not that I can think off. I may not be online in the morning but the forum pro, NJ Trooper, should be around.

What did you short to check the circulators ?

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Old 02-10-15, 09:31 PM
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Do you have a tankless? Looking at the control all your switches except the last one should be pushed to the right. The bottom one (low limit) to the left.
That's something you can check..
Schematic got posted while I was typing.
 
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Old 02-11-15, 04:13 AM
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PJmax; I shorted out the H and N terminals of the zones in the 120 VAC Circulators. When a set of terminals are shorted the circulator will come right on.

At present I have only one thermostat calling for heat

spott; I have a Boileermate hot water maker attached.

Thanks for the replies.
 
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Old 02-11-15, 06:39 AM
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I shorted out the H and N terminals of the zones in the 120 VAC Circulators
WHAT? ! ! ! ?

There must be a wiring problem of some sort because what you did was EXTREMELY DANGEROUS! and you are lucky it didn't electrocute (kill) you, cause severe arc flash burns, start a fire, destroy the relays in your 506 panel, or worse...

Please, if you don't know that one must NEVER, EVER short together the 120VAC HOT and NEUTRAL terminals, then you should not be working inside that panel...

DON'T DO THAT AGAIN!

Call a qualified electrician to sort this out for you. Do NOT CALL BACK the party that installed this panel.

The fact that you DIDN'T have a catastrophic event occur tells me that the person that installed this in the first place totally screwed up. He probably has the pumps incorrectly wired. If he was able to make that error, then who knows what else is screwed up.

From what you have already told us, I suspect that the 506 panel has already been damaged.
 
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Old 02-11-15, 06:43 PM
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Thanks for the warning and advice NJ Trooper.

First off, my apologies for posting a dangerous act. I was aware of the 110 VAC and used precautions (goggles, thick gloves and insulated wire).
Do you really think the board is damaged? The relays still switch and the light and voltage still seem correct and the board seems pretty basic. I am no expert but, have a decent working knowledge of electronics. just wish there was a way to fix it in a timely fashion. The oil company we have a contract with installed it, and they were definitely a soup sandwich.
Any suggestions for a replacement? Should I go with a relay box or different. I would like to be able to tell the next oil company what kind of box I would like. Btw the circulators are Taco also.

Again, thank you for the diagnosis and advice,

Tom
 
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Old 02-11-15, 07:33 PM
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have a decent working knowledge of electronics
I'll accept that, but really, that being the case, you should have known that it is NEVER OK to short 120VAC HOT to 120VAC NEUTRAL. Not for any reason... all that PPE you had on makes me think you expected fireworks.

OK, no more harping, what's done was done... just please, don't do that again... I'm done preaching.

On to the problem:

What it appears to me has happened there is that whomever installed that system has the 120VAC HOT tied to what he thinks is the 120VAC NEUTRAL on the pump.

So, one side of the pump motor is always connected to 120VAC HOT.

When you brought that other wire to 120VAC NEUTRAL, you completed the circuit and the pump ran.'

What is especially troubling with this is that if he was that careless to do it at one spot in the system, he may have done it at others.

If he has the 120VAC HOT and NEUTRAL reversed, you, and anyone around that boiler is IN DANGER! Seriously... don't take this lightly!

It is possible that parts of that system that one can easily touch could be HOT ! with 120VAC and people can be KILLED!

If you wish to continue to troubleshoot this, I will help, but you know what you have to promise!

Do you own a multimeter and know how to use it?

Do you know that 120VAC HOT is the BLACK wire, and the NEUTRAL is the WHITE wire? If you didn't, you do know.

A series of photographs would help the cause.

I need to see where the 120VAC comes to the boiler, and how it is routed to the pumps.

Where does the OTHER pump wire go?
 
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Old 02-11-15, 07:36 PM
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Looking at the photo of the panel, I think I see TWO BLACK wires on the 120VAC terminal at the lower right. Did the installer really use all black wires? If so, what a doofus.
 
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Old 02-11-15, 07:38 PM
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What do the labels on the black wires say?

Please read the printing on the wires themselves and tell me what they say. I want to know the type and gauge of that wire.
 
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Old 02-11-15, 08:45 PM
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T,
How many zones do you have.
Where are you getting your 120v from. That should be line voltage on there. I see 2 black wires. What's that tape on there, what does it say.
I see 4 zones and a wire on the priority zone. Your pumps have a hot and a neutral from your pumps. I only see a wire on the hot, no neutral.
 
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Old 02-11-15, 09:01 PM
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Actually you were lucky the relays weren't activated or you would have seen fireworks.
H=120vac hot and N=neutral. You created a dead short.

The person that wired your pumps connected one side of each pump to neutral and then relied on the board to switch on 120vac. Sort of an unorthodox way of wiring but is one way of doing it. Makes troubleshooting a little dicey.

Your in good hands with Trooper so I'm just going to watch from the sidelines as one chef in the kitchen is enough.
 
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Old 02-12-15, 06:23 AM
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Wow! Look's like 2 blacks on the input,your best bet would be to start all over with that install,get you circ. feeds straighten out ,black and white from each back to the relay terminals,bring the correct feed onto those input terminal,once that controller has the correct feed everything else will fall into place.
Those controls are so nice to work with,I can't believe that Dufuss made such a mess.
You could can check the status of those relays with your meter,once you get the correct feed to the input terminals, remove the black wire from the neutral terminals ,put your probes between H-N,when your Tstat for that zone is calling you should see 120VAC.I doubt the relays are damaged.

Geo
 
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Old 02-12-15, 08:42 AM
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.I doubt the relays are damaged.
That's probably true... but ONLY because doofus wired it wrong. Had the HOT been HOT and the relay was pulled in, there would have been big fireworks... and damage... and maybe dead bodies on the floor.
 
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Old 02-12-15, 10:24 AM
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My apologies for the late response, work + two kids = -time.

Thanks for the great responses and advice. As you all had determined the board was in fact hooked up wrong. The neutrals were tied off together in a box next to the Taco box and no neutral lead was hooked in to the AC side of the Taco box.

After discussing the issue with the same oil company they offered to fix it for free, since they saw that the job was incomplete. Of course when they got there they wanted to work on the circulators and so on. I was able to describe the issue in depth, thanks to the great advice given here. The tech realized the problem and ran all the neutrals into the Taco box and it immediately worked as it is supposed to.

So the problem is solved thanks to the great folks here.

Side note: After the tech left one zone wouldn't shut of and another would not come on, sort of an insult to injury thing. It took a few minute but realized that two tstat were hooked in to the wrong zones. It is laughable now

So, a sincere thanks to all on this board who contribute to fix the problems of those in need.

Tom

This is the before shot for reference, I can post an after shot tonight or tomorrow.
 
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Old 02-12-15, 10:26 AM
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It's unbelievable how someone could screw up a job like that,those controls make a boiler a breeze.
Geo
 
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Old 02-12-15, 10:30 AM
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Good, glade to know you got it all working.
Geo
 
 

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