Benefits of relocating circulator?


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Old 02-27-15, 12:56 PM
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Benefits of relocating circulator?

Hi Folks! Back with a new project!

Williamson OWT-3 installed in 2005, and it was pointed out to me that the
FLOCHECK VALVE "left in from the prior boiler with no zone valves" was isolating the Expansion Tank when the HWC was being heated; no zone valves open.
I've looked at the boiler piping and plan to do some maintenance, so I would like some suggestions about any benefit in removing the Flocheck, and relocating the circulator as well... When we finally get some decent weather!

For anyone familiar with my past issues, after opening the Flocheck manually, and
using the "thankless Coil" Lol everything seems to be running great! The ONLY
thing that bothers me still is that in order to use Aquastat settings of H=175, L=150, D=15 is that the dials on the aquastat are at H=151, L=145.

Ok, about the Circulator and Flowcheck?

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Last edited by Tyannt; 02-27-15 at 01:09 PM. Reason: add pics
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Old 02-27-15, 04:27 PM
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Hi Greg,

I would like some suggestions about any benefit in removing the Flocheck, and relocating the circulator as well...
If the system is running fine, and you don't have problems with hearing air gushing in the pipes, then there's no real advantage to re-piping anything.

If you decide that you want to take on the job and move some stuff around, what you would want to do is remove the flow check and install the pump AFTER the expansion tank, before the zone valves.

But like I said, if you don't have problems with air in the pipes, leave it be. The ONLY advantage to moving the pump would be more efficient air elimination.

The ONLY thing that bothers me still is that in order to use Aquastat settings of H=175, L=150, D=15 is that the dials on the aquastat are at H=151, L=145.
Is the operation REPEATABLE? In other words, no matter what the setting, it ALWAYS operates at the same temperature? It doesn't 'drift around' the settings?

Repeatability is MUCH more important than absolute accuracy.

AND, you may also have issue with the boiler thermometer... might not be as far off as you think it is.

What have you done so far? Refresh my memory...

I think you've pulled the aquastat and put some heat compound past on the bulb and made sure it was fully inserted into the well?
 
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Old 02-27-15, 05:38 PM
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Is there a problem you are wanting to solve? What is it?

You can read about endless optimum piping arrangements here on the internet. What is the problem you are worried about?
 
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Old 02-27-15, 06:13 PM
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Repeatability is MUCH more important than absolute accuracy.
Hey! That's my line.


Re-pipe the flow control to downstream of the expansion tank. You might need to change that second pipe on the expansion tank to downstream of the flow control. I would not advise doing any re-piping though until late spring to early summer.
 
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Old 02-27-15, 07:08 PM
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Hi Trooper,

If the system is running fine, and you don't have problems with hearing air gushing in the pipes,
I have noticed a new sound in a couple of the main floor baseboard heaters; which now that you mention it, sounds like a river rushing through. Not a loud nuisance though... which may be eliminated once i replace the purge valves.

Is the operation REPEATABLE?
The firing and shutoff temps are consistant, and yes I did remove and use ample heatsink compound. It is still possible I don't have the bulb in the full depth though, didn't measure the depth so i could check that again.

I replaced the boiler tridicator, auto air vent and the expansion tank, as well as add a 0-30psi guage on the drain tap. No problems in that area, boiler hasn't gone over 17.5psi, no relief leaks etc.
 
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Old 02-27-15, 07:23 PM
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gilmorrie,

Is there a problem you are wanting to solve? What is it?
I asked if there was a benefit in removing the Flowcheck valve, if i make the decision to
relocate the Circulator. Would you leave the Flowcheck installed?
 

Last edited by Tyannt; 02-27-15 at 07:24 PM. Reason: edit
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Old 02-27-15, 07:28 PM
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Furd,

Re-pipe the flow control to downstream of the expansion tank.
What reason is there for relocating the Flowcheck to "downstream" of the expansion?
No, I certainly won't be shutting things down until we don't need the heat!
 
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Old 02-27-15, 08:20 PM
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Hey! That's my line.
Yes Sensei, I have learned from the best!

Furd might not have seen the zone valves in the pic... and not noticed that the flow check is not needed any longer.
 
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Old 02-28-15, 12:30 PM
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1) The general concensus is, the Flowcheck can be eliminated ?

2) Any benefit, other than just better air elimination by relocating the circulator to the downstream side of the expansion tank? I think I remember someone saying I may have a problem eventually by
leaving the Flocheck in, something about the PSI eventually getting up around 18psi? Does that mean to imply that if I remove it, the psi will drop also, and, is that a good thing necessarily?
OR, did that have to do with the location of the circulator!

Umm, do i have to address Furd as, Sensei now? Lol
 
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Old 02-28-15, 01:49 PM
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The general concensus is, the Flowcheck can be eliminated ?
YES.

Any benefit, other than just better air elimination by relocating the circulator to the downstream side of the expansion tank?
None that I'm aware of.

I think I remember someone saying I may have a problem eventually by
leaving the Flocheck in, something about the PSI eventually getting up around 18psi? Does that mean to imply that if I remove it, the psi will drop also, and, is that a good thing necessarily?
I think you're disremembering something rbeck said about where the water fill line feeds into the system.

Has nothing to do with the flow check valve.

If you DO end up re-piping, move the water feed line to the bottom of the air scoop, above the new tank service valve.

do i have to address Furd as, Sensei now?
Absolutely! Not only has he EARNED it, he DESERVES it!
 
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Old 02-28-15, 06:27 PM
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Or you may refer to me as Joel as that is my real name.

I spent over thirty years in the design, construction and operation of commercial and industrial sized power plants including large scale high temperature hot water and steam. There is a lot I do not know about residential but those things I know I know well.
 
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Old 02-28-15, 06:52 PM
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Air scoops need 18 inches of full diameter straight pipe on the inlet.
 
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Old 03-14-15, 12:41 PM
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Hi all,
I'ts time to end this thread. My boiler is running great and I'm armed with
some other suggestions; "non critical" to follow up on, should I decide to
clean things up a little.

Once more, I would like to express my appreciation for all who have helped;
and I'm glad I made the decision to tackle this myself. It's knowledge that
will always come in handy and it was absolutely worth the time and effort.

I may be designing a personal webpage soon, so I would like to know if there
might be stipulations to adding a link to "www.doityourself.com" ?

Big thumbs up!
 
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Old 03-14-15, 01:25 PM
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I would like to know if there
might be stipulations to adding a link to "www.doityourself.com" ?
Read the rules and policys of the forum...

You can put a link in your profile though...
 
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Old 03-14-15, 04:01 PM
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Mike, I believe he wants to put a link to DIY on HIS webpage... not to put a link to his webpage here, although as you said, he can put it in his profile here.

I seriously doubt that there can be any objection to that from anyone. Who turns down free advertising?

There's even a wikipedia page about us:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DoItYourself.com
 
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Old 03-14-15, 04:31 PM
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Hey Trooper, how's it hanging! Lol
You were correct; Adding a link to DIY on MY webpage!

What! "free advertising"? I was thinking of charging per click; thought this was the good Ol US of A, land of opportunity! LOL
 
 

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