Slant/Fin Monitron EH electric boiler problems

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Old 02-28-15, 11:06 AM
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Slant/Fin Monitron EH electric boiler problems

Hi everyone, looking for some help here since I've contacted 3 professionals over the past 2.5 months without a response from any of them to come do some work on my electric hot water boiler.

I have a Slant/Fin Monitron EH hot water boiler system with a 3-zone system. In December I had someone come look at it because it was constantly bleeding water from the relief valve (filling a 5 gallon bucket every 2-3 days or less if it was colder). He looked at it, and determined that it was installed improperly and needed a change in set-up. He drained my expansion tank which was full of water, and the dripping has since stopped. A new issue arose however, where it basically sounds like my house is a raging river.

I've compared my pictures to the diagram and can't seem to determine the problem, but I've included some pictures. I have noticed that I don't seem to have a "diaphragm compression tank and fill valve" as per the installation diagram, and it instead looks like the water is piped directly into the system.

I'm not having any issues with the zones or the producing heat (other then being inefficient) but just the fact that there is a lot of air getting into the system somehow. I've checked the expansion tank which is situated above the boiler itself and it is always hot (as if it's pumping excess hot water into the expansion/overfill tank rather then the system).

Any help would be appreciated, and if you need more pictures let me know.


expansion tank above the boiler
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Temp/Pressure gauge when on
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circulator heading into the bottom of the system
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Three zone set up, literally just hanging out in the middle of this room occupying a fair amount of space.
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Apparently it won't upload the picture of the inflow, but you can see it at the right side of the picture of the monitron itself. The bottom pipe heading up leads to the expansion tank, the middle out to the rest of the system, and the top is the inflow from the city water.
 

Last edited by NJT; 02-28-15 at 11:30 AM.
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Old 02-28-15, 11:29 AM
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the fact that there is a lot of air getting into the system somehow.
It's coming 'out of' the fresh water that was added when the system was serviced.

On the top of the boiler there is a brass can with a 'tire cap' on top. Is that cap screwed down tight? Or is it loose? It needs to be loose to allow the air to escape. If it leaks water when the cap is loosened, it needs to be replaced.

Yes, from what I can see it is indeed a very poor installation.
 
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Old 02-28-15, 11:37 AM
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I was looking at the installation manual. They show 1-1/4" pipe connections to the boiler but it looks like 1/2" or 3/4" is being used with no/minimal bypass piping.


orthernplumbing manuals slantfin Feh.pdf
 
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Old 02-28-15, 11:42 AM
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Yes, that's probably the worst part of the install because it means that ultimately the boiler will be damaged, if it isn't already.

There is a MINIMUM FLOW REQUIREMENT on ALL electric boilers that can not possibly be met with the piping that we can see.

Whoever installed this had no clue... don't mean to insult Tamba, if it was you that did this.
 
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Old 02-28-15, 11:47 AM
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MOUNTING
The Monitron is intended for wall mounting, utilizing the wall
brackets attached to the boiler (see Figure 1). Allow sufficient
space for piping and service. The boiler may be installed in an
enclosed space (see Figure 1). The boiler must be INSTALLED
LEVEL.
It appears that almost no part of the manual was adhered to.

While it might be the picture crooked, it sure don't appear level to me!
 
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Old 02-28-15, 12:23 PM
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Hi,

Thanks for the help. I've opened the valve (it was tightened and I distinctly remember the guy who came and looked at it playing with it when he was here) and it released a hiss of air, followed by a tiny little squirt of water. I've jacked the heat up in each of the zones now to see if it will do anything else (hiss more air or leak water) but it hasn't done anything yet. I also noticed when I upped the temperature that it was drawing water in from the main line. I can understand a little being replaced, but should it be drawing water every time it cuts in (adding air and cold water to the system)?

No worries about the installation part. I didn't do it, and the guys who's sticker is on it claimed that they didn't install it, so I'm not exactly sure. Last owners never put it in, so maybe the owners previous to them installed it? There are only 3 companies where I live that service/install Slantfins none of them seem to think they installed it.

Not to be a bit suspect of the guys I had come look at it, but is it possible that they're just waiting for it to fail catastrophically so they get the job of replacing the boiler itself? I already want them to set it up properly i.e. do a fresh install but apparently they're "really busy" doing other jobs and don't seem to want to do the ~8-10 hour job to fix the install and replace the hot water boiler with a larger one.

Just checked and despite my ridiculous picture it is actually level, so that is not an issue.
 
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Old 02-28-15, 05:03 PM
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The install is indeed very bad, the pipe that comes from expansion tank will not allow the air that is circulating to return to the top of the tank were it belongs , also expansion tanks with out a bladder do not require automatic air bleeds to be operating once the pump can circulate the water around the system.
 
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Old 02-28-15, 06:42 PM
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Air sould be returned to the bottom of the tank, never eliminated.
Air Control

The air control method has been around for more than 40 years and has proven quite successful. It uses a standard steel tank in which the air and water actually touch. The air inside the tank acts like a spring pushing down on the water to keep the system pressurized.
. . .

Air Elimination

The air elimination method has also proved to be quite effective. This method uses a diaphragm or bladder-style expansion tank instead of a standard steel tank. The tank is pre-charged with air on one side of the membrane that separates the system water from the air.
"Proper Air Management in a Hydronic Systems[sic]"

Installing Expansion tank using B&G ATF [PDF] See drawings starting on page 4

The piping to the pump inlet should be 1"D x Minimum 6" straight pipe (1.25"D for EH-40.)
 
 

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