Expansion tank question

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Old 03-10-15, 07:42 AM
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Expansion tank question

Hi,

Firstly, I appreciate you taking time to read this and i am extremely Sorry for sounding in HURRY and urgent.

I noticed that my expansion tank was leaking and the problem is i have to travel due to an emergency for two weeks and I want to be completely sure that leaking tank will not pose any danger to my family.

Your reply is very much appreciated.

I am also not clear what kind of tank i need to buy. Home depot has many different listed HERE

I also read NJ Trooper post on Expansion Tank but i see that there is no room for optional valve. is there any trick to make that happen (perhaps buy tank in smaller size than one i have ?)

I am also not sure how to drain water from the tank since there is no valve and tank is hanging on the pipe directly going into the boiler.

Also, do i need to replace anything else while replacing the tank ? I noticed that something looks like air valve where tank is mounted is rusted.

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Old 03-10-15, 08:06 AM
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Where on the tank is the leak?

The brass can on top is NOT part of the expansion tank.

If that is the part that is leaking, just screw down the cap on top tight and wait until the spring time.

If you order on the internet, Expansion Tanks , Amtrol Expansion , Extrol Tanks , Therm-X-Trol Tanks , Boiler Expansion Tanks - SupplyHouse.com is a MUCH better place to order from.

You should not reduce the size of the tank, the size is chosen according to the needs of your system. Using a smaller tank may cause other problems.

Your tank appears to be a #90 size tank from what I can see. This means that you probably have cast iron radiators throughout the home?
 
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Old 03-10-15, 11:18 AM
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NJ Trooper thank you for reply.

Leak is from the circular raised point "Where the sticker says "STATE Therm -o-flex"

I have baseboard heat (not cast iron radiators).

What would be my tank type ?

Thank you
 
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Old 03-10-15, 11:37 AM
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What's the model no. on tank.
et-2,5,7 or 14. ET 2 looks like it would be the equivalent of an amtrol #15. #5=#30, #7=#60, #14=90.
You most likely have a #30 unless as trooper stated you have cast iron rads, in which case you should have at least a #60.
ET-14 which is an Amtrol #90 is the largest that State makes for heating.
If your system has been running trouble free, replace with the same size tank as it was hopefully sized for your system initially.
Your tank has a 1 yr. warranty. Amtrol has a 3 yr. warranty and in my opinion a much better tank.
 
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Old 03-10-15, 11:56 AM
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Spott, you think that tank is a 30 ? Go back to the pics and look at it again... that's not a 30 I don't think, look how tall it is?

Leak is from the circular raised point "Where the sticker says "STATE Therm -o-flex"
\

Sorry, I don't see it. Are you sure it's not water leaking from that air vent on top and it's dripping down?
 
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Old 03-10-15, 04:46 PM
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Probably a 90 but state does not size with those type #'s..

ET 5v -1 or 7-1.. I may think 7.... ( The 1 because of 3/4 threads.. The 2's have 1" threads but are same tank...

http://www.statewaterheaters.com/lit...SPMSS00206.pdf
 
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Old 03-10-15, 05:48 PM
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Troop,
It probably didn't come out as I meant it which was to say on a regular system it may be a 30, unless CI rads would be larger.
From the closeup pics and no model no. I can't tell.It does look large but I didn't know if it was because of the closeups. That's why I mentioned to replace with what he had.
Lawrosa,
How I came up with the sizes were the tank quantities.
For ex. ET-5 = Amtrol 30, with about 4 gal. capacity, and so on.
 
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Old 03-10-15, 06:05 PM
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Model seems to be: ET-7
----------------

if i ordered online from the link provided by NJ Trooper (Thank you) it will take few days to get hold of it. Since I am travelling due to an emergency tomorrow night, would it be safe for my family to continue for two weeks without changing it ?

Also what would be its replacement. from Homedepot or Lowes ? Since they are local and i can pick it up

My boiler is Utica - 225 AGB GAS
 
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Old 03-10-15, 06:19 PM
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if i ordered online from the link provided by NJ Trooper (Thank you) it will take few days to get hold of it.
Not so.

The "Fast Track" items if ordered by 6PM will be at your house the next day.

Also what would be its replacement. from Homedepot or Lowes ? Since they are local and i can pick it up
If you think that they are going to have that tank (which I highly doubt) you would need the #90 size to replace with the same size.

You said you have baseboards? Copper fin-tube? or CAST IRON? If you do have copper fin-tube baseboards, I can't see the need for that large of a tank, but there may well be something we don't know, so I would also say to replace with same size.

I still don't see the leak that you said is there.

Are you sure that it's not dripping from the vent on top and running down the tank? You didn't answer my question.

would it be safe for my family to continue for two weeks without changing it ?
Can't see the leak, really can't tell.
 
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Old 03-10-15, 06:30 PM
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I am also not sure how to drain water from the tank since there is no valve and tank is hanging on the pipe directly going into the boiler.
This is another problem.

You are going to have to learn real fast how to drain, refill, and then PURGE ALL THE AIR out of the system.

You don't only need to drain the tank, you need to drain the BOILER and the SYSTEM.

In my opinion, you are risking not being able to get the system back up and running.

In this case, if the tank really is leaking, and you're sure it's from the tank, and because you don't have the luxury of time, you should have been on the phone yesterday scheduling a tech to come in and fix it up for you.
 
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Old 03-10-15, 06:31 PM
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Air vent leaking right there at cap... I see drop of water........

[ATTACH=CONFIG]47821[/ATTACH]
 
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Old 03-10-15, 06:40 PM
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Thanks everyone for your replies

Trooper
Are you sure that it's not dripping from the vent on top and running down the tank?
Even though air vent on top of air scoop is dripping (little) but i am NOT sure if that is the main source of leak.

it seems Leak is from where paint is bubbled on two spots and is dripping water. Please see pictures.

you would need the #90 size to replace with the same size.
From the link provided by lawrosa (Thank You) ET7 is 7.3 gallons and replacement suggested by NJ Trooper # 90 is 14 Gallons, shouldn't replacement be same or less size.

and because you don't have the luxury of time, you should have been on the phone yesterday scheduling a tech to come in and fix it up for you.
I just noticed the leak today and i am trying to see what options I have, if its dangerous then i will tell my family to use electric heater instead. otherwise i will get this fixed as soon i return.
 
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Old 03-10-15, 06:46 PM
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OK, I see it now! Yeah, that should be done pretty soon, if not immediately.

In the future, don't take the heating system so much for granted.

ET7 is 7.3 gallons and replacement suggested by NJ Trooper # 90 is 14 Gallons, shouldn't replacement be same or less size.
Yes, it should, but please do not confuse the TOTAL volume with ACCEPTANCE volume, they are two completely different numbers.

I'm gonna check again though just to be sure...

But, you need to call someone, I don't see this ending well for you if you try it yourself. Something ALWAYS goes wrong for first timers... just being realistic.

And while the guy is there, have him replace the air vent at the same time.
 
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Old 03-10-15, 06:53 PM
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I think you can use the #60 size.

Especially in view of the fact that you said you have baseboards and not radiators...

as long as they are COPPER TUBE WITH ALUMINUM FINS and NOT cast iron baseboards.
 
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Old 03-10-15, 07:39 PM
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Trooper, Thank you for your constant help

I lightly scratched off the paint and got the clear picture of source of leak

please see below. Can it be used for heat lightly for two weeks or is it a DANGER ?
 
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Old 03-10-15, 08:04 PM
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I can't give an answer to that.

I will say that it is highly unlikely that it would blow up, but it might rupture and spew water, flood your home, and there would be no heat.

Just some possible scenarios.

It's also possible that nothing will happen.

It's a gamble, you decide.
 
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Old 03-11-15, 11:47 PM
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I was able to workout and postpone my travel arrangements and now ready to focus on problem at hand and with all your help ready to replace the tank.

You are going to have to learn real fast how to drain, refill, and then PURGE ALL THE AIR out of the system.

You don't only need to drain the tank, you need to drain the BOILER and the SYSTEM.
Yes Troop, I am very confident with a great teacher like yourself and help of others at this forum (like lawrosa and spott) I will learn fast and will be able to replace tank without any problem.

I am attaching another picture with details of piping and water flow. I have labeled it for my convenience.

I searched for thread for "Step by Step" replacement of expansion tank but didnt find which could answer my question. So hopefully this thread will help many others.

This Thread helped me but not fully I read Pressure Relief Valve leaking? Service your bladder type expansion tank!


Per NJ Trooper I have ordered #60 and Air Vent should i change anything else while I am at it ? It seems like i will not be able to add Optional Valve since there is no room there.


I understand I need to:
A- drain (Boiler & System)
B- refill,
C- PURGE ALL THE AIR out of the system

I would appreciate if you can have patience with me and walk me through step by step.

As you can see water is traveling into the boiler passing through "valve 1, Pressure reducing Valve, and Valve 2, Passes through Booster/Motor into the boiler.
if attached image is not clear please click HERE

Question #1 == Before draining do i Close Valve #1 and Valve # 2 and Valve # 3 or just one ? What about Pressure Reducing Valve- Do i do anything with it ?

Question #2 How to drop the pressure to zero in the system ?

Question #3 == Drain is from Drain labeled as #1 (Below booster) OR Drain 2 (above Booster) ? and how System and Boiler is drained ?

Question #4 == Do i need to do anything with Return valves (Labeled return valve 1st floor and return valve 2nd floor)

Question #5 == After draining is there anything else (i.e. uncharge/depressurize tank) anything else I need to do before unhooking the old tank ? if yes what ?

Question #6 == After removing the old tank is there anything else I need to do before mounting new tank ? (Charging the tank etc)

Question #7 == After mounting the tank what is the immediate step after that ?

Question #8 == How is refill Done ? When refilling what valves need to be open and what valves need to be closed (Please refer to the picture)

Question #9 == How is Purge Done ? ( what valves need to be open and what valves need to be closed)

Question #10 == Lastly, Gauge is readin 30 PSI when running, is that ok ? Should I replace the gauge as well just to be 100% certain i have a working gauge

I hope my experience will be as one of the member here said :
I'm a complete 'noob and I replaced my tank and air vent in about an hour in the middle of winter in Maine. Works like a charm now and made such a difference!


Thank you for your patience and help.
 
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  #18  
Old 03-12-15, 05:30 AM
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N,
1) To drain the boiler.
You have ball valves on your supply & return lines. Shut them all off. 2 supply's & 2 returns.
2) Shut off valve #1 to the boiler..
3) Drain system from bottom of boiler or put a bucket under the relief valve and drain until water stops coming out and that will take the pressure off the boiler and get the water down below the tank and also check your relief valve at the same time.
Slowly remove your air vent first to make sure the water is out. If nothing comes out then chance the tank covering and controls that might get wet.
Using pipe dope install new parts and leave the cap on the air vent loose to bleed air automatically.
Before installing tank with an air gage check the pressure in the tank and make sure you have 12-15 psi.
When everything is completed you can refill the boiler.
Open up valve #1 only and let water enter the boiler. As it's entering open up the relief valve and that will get the lions share of the air out. Leave it open until you get a good stream of water and you may not have to bleed the system.
When water comes out of relief valve close it down and make sure it doesn't leak.
You now should have 12-15 psi in the boiler.
When the water stops feeding you now open up all the other valves to your supply and return lines.
Everything should now be stabilized.
You can now turn on your boiler and test. If all goes well I don't think you'll even have to purge the system.
If you do elect to change your boiler gage the only thing different is you will drain from the bottom of the boiler instead of the relief valve to get below the gage port.
In case I forgot you do this with the boiler off obviously.
Good Luck,
 
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Old 03-12-15, 02:55 PM
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You have ball valves on your supply
I don't think I see ball valves on the supply side...

I DO see red and yellow wires at the top of the pic and these are probably going to zone valves.

Are those zone valves on the SUPPLY side?

What is the red valve in the distance (not labeled)?

Question #1 == Before draining do i Close Valve #1 and Valve # 2 and Valve # 3 or just one ? What about Pressure Reducing Valve- Do i do anything with it ?
You can leave valve 1 open, or close it... at LEAST valves 2 and 3 must be closed.

If the zone valves are on the supply side, that's a good thing... are there any more valves on the supply side? If so, you will close them also.

Question #2 How to drop the pressure to zero in the system ?
After you close the appropriate valves, you will open a drain valve on the boiler to let only enough water out to drop the water level in the pipes below the level of where the tank is connected. This should only be a couple gallons or so.

Make sure the cap on the air vent above the boiler is LOOSE so that air can be drawn in. You will probably HEAR it sucking air as you drain. Otherwise a vacuum will be pulled and you may not be able to drain enough water to get below the level of the tank. (finger on the drinking straw analogy)

Question #3 == Drain is from Drain labeled as #1 (Below booster) OR Drain 2 (above Booster) ? and how System and Boiler is drained ?
This goes with #2 above...

With valve #3 CLOSED, you can't use drain #2 because it's on the wrong side of the isolation valve. You COULD use drain #2 if instead of closing #3 you closed the blue handled valves on the two returns.

Your goal is to NOT DRAIN THE SYSTEM! You want to keep as much of the old nasty water in the boiler and only add as small an amount of new fresh water as possible.

We need to see a picture of the piping on the other side of the boiler as well...

Question #5 == After draining is there anything else (i.e. uncharge/depressurize tank) anything else I need to do before unhooking the old tank ? if yes what ?
You need to be aware first and foremost of SAFETY! If that tank is full of water (it probably is), it is going to be HEAVY!!! It will FEEL light as you are threading it off so DON'T BE FOOLED! It will weigh up to SIXTY pounds or MORE ! BE PREPARED FOR THAT TANK TO BE HEAVY!!!!!!

Question #6 == After removing the old tank is there anything else I need to do before mounting new tank ? (Charging the tank etc)
No more than TWO WRAPS of teflon tape, and NO TAPE on the first 2-3 threads! OR, use a good quality pipe dope such as Rectorseal #5 and keep it off the first 2-3 threads.

CHECK the charge on the new tank before installing! Yes, they say they are precharged, but don't take it for granted.

---to be continued---
 
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Old 03-12-15, 03:08 PM
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---continued---

If you do have room for the optional valves, add them!

If you had those valves now, you wouldn't need to go through all this at all! Just close the valve and change the tank, easy-peasy.

Question #7 == After mounting the tank what is the immediate step after that ?
See next question...

Question #8 == How is refill Done ? When refilling what valves need to be open and what valves need to be closed (Please refer to the picture)
After tank and air vent are installed, I would first open ONLY valve #2 (and #1 if you closed them both. Open SLOWLY at first and let system fill slowly so that air goes up and out the vent.

Water will enter the system. You will hear the air escaping from the LOOSE CAP on the new air vent.

Allow the system to fill to the 12-15 PSI setting of the pressure reducing valve.

Check for leaks and tighten more if needed.

After the system is back at pressure, and no leaks, open any other valves that you closed.

Set both thermostats to call for heat and let the system get good and hot... all the way up to 180F or so. You might hear air circulating for a while, but the air scoop and vent should remove it.

Question #9 == How is Purge Done ? ( what valves need to be open and what valves need to be closed)
Hopefully you won't need to do this at all... but I want to see the piping on the other side of boiler as well... any other valves, the zone valves, etc... Need to see ALL of the piping clearly.

We'll get into this later, as needed.

Question #10 == Lastly, Gauge is readin 30 PSI when running, is that ok ? Should I replace the gauge as well just to be 100% certain i have a working gauge
No. 30 PSI is too high. COLD boiler should be 12-15 PSI. HOT boiler perhaps 8-10 PSI higher.

Your gauge is likely toast.

Honestly, in my opinion ALL boiler gauges are CRAP. I wouldn't bother to replace it. Instead, I would do as shown here, and put this on drain #2 and only open it when I want to check pressure.

http://www.doityourself.com/forum/bo...ure-gauge.html
 
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Old 03-12-15, 08:55 PM
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"spott" Thank You for your prompt reply and a very special thanks to "NJ TROOPER" for his detaild and step by step reply. I really appreciate Both replies, I benefited a lot. Thanks

NJ Trooper
Are those zone valves on the SUPPLY side?
Yellow and Red wiring on top of pictures is for Zoning. Here is water flow system
Water (Supply) flows in from Valve marked "Valve 1" into ---->Pressure reducing Valve into ----> "Valve 2" into ----> Copper Fitting T
(Upward is valve marked as "Valve3" right above that is blue gate valve marked (Drain 2) which is a return from two floors (Zones) marked (Return 1st floor and Return 2nd floor)
(Downward is going into Red Booster/Motor into ----> Boiler - and there is Drain on same pipe labeled as "Drain 1"

Water FLOW out of Boiler as follows:


Hot water is coming out of pipe next to gauge (behind red switch)
Water flows into the Tank (No valve in between) and then hot water flows into Two Zones

What is the red valve in the distance (not labeled)?
That is separate pipe for Water Heater-

We need to see a picture of the piping on the other side of the boiler as well...
Please see image attached - There is nothing much on this side except a more clear of pipes going into Zones from Expansion Tank.


"CHECK the charge on the new tank before installing! "
How do i check charge on the new tank ? Would that be by "With an ACCURATE tire pressure gauge, "?

Allow the system to fill to the 12-15 PSI setting of the pressure reducing valve.
How do i determine or check if system is being filled to 12-15 PSI. Where and How do i monitor this ? Would that show on Gauge on the boiler ? or do i have to do something else ?

How do I control system to fill to the 12-15 PSI ? What do i click/turn/ when system reaches 12-15 PSI



30 PSI is too high. COLD boiler should be 12-15 PSI. HOT boiler perhaps 8-10 PSI higher.
How to set pressure of Boiler to 12-15 PSI ? and if it goes up to 30 how to reduce it ?

I would appreciate if you can also tell me how to purge, so when i start doing everything tomorrow i dont get stuck half way. Even though i am certain you guys wouldnt leave me hanging/stuck, but just to avoid any panic.

You all are great, Many thanks
 
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Old 03-13-15, 07:47 AM
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N,
Those ZV's are on the supply side and with the tstats turned down and the power off they're as good as shutoffs. They will stop the water from draining and keep the water in the system.
Check the tank charge with a tire pressure gauge. 12-15psi is what you're looking for. Remove the cap on the bottom of the tank to expose a schrader valve. If the tank needs pressure use an air compressor or a bicycle pump attached to that valve. Do this before installing the tank.
The boiler feed valve is factory set at 12-15psi. All you have to do is open valve 1 or 2 whichever you closed and the boiler will automatically fill to that pressure.
When it reaches that pressure the water will shut itself off automatically.
If you follow my instructions in post #18 you should not have to purge.
If you choose to go another way trooper will explain the purging process.
To purge your system you have to start with higher pressure, at least 25-28psi and kelp it there while purging.
This can be easily achieved if you had a Taco feed valve that has a lever to fastfill the system.
You have a B&G feed valve that has an adjusting screw to change the pressure and for a beginner is much more difficult to reset to the proper pressure when done.
That is why in your case my way is much better because you have the perfect setup where no air has to reach the system itself. If you open all valves before you pressurize the system it's a whole different ball game and you will have to purge.
Good Luck,
 
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Old 03-13-15, 07:52 AM
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Good News = Followed all the steps and successfully unmounted the old tank

BAD NEWS = Amtrol # 60 is too tall and does not fit in !!!

Now i am without heat.

Question -
Can I use smaller #30 ?


Here are the details of my boiler
Utica - 225 AGB GAS
Input Water = 225,000 BTU (AGA Ratings) ---- 156,500 Net IBR ratings
Output water = 180,000

I have baseboard Heaters - =Covering Total of 156 + Feet
100 Feet on first Floor and 56 Feet on 2nd Floor Plus few (uncovered) sets in basement.

Your immediate reply is very much appreciated.
 
  #24  
Old 03-13-15, 09:07 AM
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Get a a run of nipples and two elbows and offset the 60 so it gets around the top of the boiler..

Looks like you have the room against the wall..

Like this.. (Homestore has longer nipples if you need them.)





I have not followed this thread too much. Let me do the calculations... stand by....
 

Last edited by lawrosa; 03-13-15 at 09:22 AM.
  #25  
Old 03-13-15, 09:20 AM
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Ya know I did the calculation here..

Non-Potable Water Expansion Tank Sizing - Support - Water Safety & Flow Control -Watts

3/4" pipe per ft holds .o25 gallons of water. Thats 5 gallons @ 200 ft of pipe... Your boiler holds 7 gallons say on safe side..

Seems even a et 15 would be good...

Go ahead and install the 30....

Im not sure why no one did the calculation to figure it out...
 
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Old 03-13-15, 09:30 AM
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Also to note....

Since you has that big b and G pump and its not pumping away you may have that situation where the boiler builds up pressure because of this...

Example. Am pumping to the boiler as you are. I had a b and G pump. I had a et 15 exp tank.. My boiler would build up pressure because of the phenomenon ...

Read here..

http://www.fiainc.com/documents/4-09...treallmean.pdf

What fixed for me was installing a taco 007 pump and a et 30 exp tank...

The moral of the story is possibly they installed such a large tank because of the mechanics involved with the article above...

IMO put in a et 30.....opposed to a et 15 which says is acceptable...

Down the road I would replace that pump... Is that a b and g 100??? They use a lot of electric too...
 
  #27  
Old 03-13-15, 10:14 AM
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N,
The largest boiler is a 150,000 for a #30.
It doesn't have to hang right off the air scoop.
With a couple fittings can you swing it to the side of the boiler.
Nipple, 90, nip, shutoff, nip, tee/bd, nip, 90elbow, hang tank off that and you could have your isolation valve and drain at the same time.
You might want to support the pipe with some strap or hangers for weight in case it goes, it could get heavy.
Sorry for the delay but I would stay with the #60.
 
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Old 03-13-15, 10:15 AM
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Im not sure why no one did the calculation to figure it out...
It was questioned...

I myself did not suggest it because we don't know EVERYTHING about the system and why someone would have installed such a large tank. Maybe there was ignorance involved, or maybe not, there might have been a REASON for it that we don't know.

My boiler would build up pressure because of the phenomenon ...
The only way that the pressure in the boiler can build is if more water is added, or the water is heated.

The air space in the expansion tank control the pressure when the system heats BUT the pressure will return when cooled.

How would extra water be added? A leaking pressure reducing valve for one... but there's another sneaky way too...

If the pressure reducing valve is feeding the SUCTION side of the pump, AND the pump is pumping TOWARD the expansion tank connection (which IS the case with this system, and MILLIONS of others I'm sure), when the system is at 12 PSI cold say... and the pump turns on ... the differential pressure of the pump (let's say it's 5 PSI) will be SUBTRACTED from the STATIC pressure at the suction side of the pump. So now, there's only SEVEN PSI at that point and the pressure reducing valve will feed more water.

The reducing valve will only feed as much water as needed to get to it's setting of 12 PSI.

What this means in effect is that you will have an increase of system pressure equal to the differential pressure developed across the pump. In this case, when the boiler shuts down and cools again, the pressure will now be 17 PSI cold...

But it can't CONTINUE to build above that pressure because the pressure reducing valve will never see a pressure less than 12 PSI when the pump is running.

So, it's really not a BIG issue as long as the expansion tank has the capacity to control the pressure...

And MAYBE this is why the tank is bigger. But we don't know for sure. And this is why it wasn't recommended to drop the tank size.
 
  #29  
Old 03-13-15, 02:46 PM
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You might want to support the pipe with some strap or hangers for weight in case it goes, it could get heavy.
I'm going to go a step further with this.

You will DEFINITELY NEED TO support the pipe if you do this. It is not optional. The longer the horizontal nipple, the greater the torque when the tank takes on water and gets heavier. Even more important if you add the isolation and drain valve in the horizontal section.


image courtesy amazon.com

Around the pipe at the tank, up to a floor joist above.

You can see this in the pic that Mike posted.
 
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Old 03-13-15, 02:57 PM
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One more thing we still don't know about this system...

I have baseboard Heaters
Are they COPPER TUBE with ALUMINUM FINS? or are they CAST IRON?

Cast iron holds more water, another possible reason for the larger tank.
 
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Old 03-13-15, 03:02 PM
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I swear I answered these earlier?

How do i determine or check if system is being filled to 12-15 PSI. Where and How do i monitor this ? Would that show on Gauge on the boiler ? or do i have to do something else ?

How do I control system to fill to the 12-15 PSI ? What do i click/turn/ when system reaches 12-15 PSI
Yes, it will show on the boiler gauge IF AND ONLY IF it's accurate, which I doubt.

When you open the water feed valve the PRESSURE REDUCING VALVE will AUTOMAGICALLY stop feeding water when the pressure in the system reaches it's setpoint of 12-15 PSI.

How to set pressure of Boiler to 12-15 PSI ? and if it goes up to 30 how to reduce it ?
It will only go up to 30 if there is something wrong with the pressure reducing valve, i.e. leaking slowly through. It's purpose is to drop the city water pressure down to 12-15 PSI for the boiler.

If it DOES continue to creep up, you will have to CLOSE the water feed valves and MONITOR the pressure in the boiler so it doesn't drop too low, and plan on replacing the pressure reducing valve after the heating season is over.
 
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Old 03-13-15, 11:09 PM
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Thank You everyone for your valuable input and guidance.

Get a a run of nipples and two elbows and offset the 60 so it gets around the top of the boiler..
Looks like you have the room against the wall..
Unfortunately there is not enough space against the wall and bcoz it was getting cold for my sick mother i went to lowes and picked up 4.4 Gallons.

Mission Accomplished - atleast for NOW !


So far everything is working fine but i am concerned if reducing the size is going to cause problems in future.

I would appreciate all of your experienced and professional advice.

-1- What is the difference between (AGA Ratings) AND Net IBR ratings
When replacing Expansion Tank should I be concerned of AGA ratings or NET IBR rating ?

-2- Since the smaller tank i put up or #30 is compatible for NET IBR of 150,000 and my boiler NET is 156,500.00 Would that cause problem in the future ?

Are they COPPER TUBE with ALUMINUM FINS? or are they CAST IRON?
Yes They are COPPER TUBE with ALUMINUM FINS. Pipes are running throughout 2500 sqft house but actual baseboard heater is Total of 156 + Feet.

100 Feet on first Floor and 56 Feet on 2nd Floor Plus few (uncovered) sets in basement.

-3- What is your advice on Water Worker 4.4-Gallon VS Amtrol #30.

-4- I can manage with some EXTRA LLLONGER nipples to get #60 (7.3 gallons) attached and put it between water heater and boiler, it will be of great inconvenience and will be in way blocking things BUT do you think I must go with that even though at this time i dont seem to have any problem with 4.4 gallons.


I am also attaching images of gauge

With old Tank = 30 PSI = 150 F
Old Tank Unhooked = 0 PSI = 100 F
New 4.4 Gallons Tank mounted - Supply Valve opened (Water in) = 12 PSI = 100 F
New 4.4 Gallons Tank mounted - Heat ON = 20 PSI = 220 F
 
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Last edited by njdiy; 03-13-15 at 11:31 PM.
  #33  
Old 03-14-15, 05:50 AM
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Heat ON = 20 PSI = 220 F
Boiler is too hot,,, consider lowering it to 180F..

The exp tank you installed is fine....

Good job...
 
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Old 03-14-15, 08:58 AM
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Yep, I agree, there seems to be no reason at all that the old tank was a 60 size (or larger!)

Since you used the 30, you were able to install the optional valves?

Check the air charge in the tank at a MINIMUM of bi-annually and that new tank will last a LONG time.

-1- What is the difference between (AGA Ratings) AND Net IBR ratings
When replacing Expansion Tank should I be concerned of AGA ratings or NET IBR rating ?

-2- Since the smaller tank i put up or #30 is compatible for NET IBR of 150,000 and my boiler NET is 156,500.00 Would that cause problem in the future ?
Boiler size is a round about way of sizing an expansion tank. It assumes a lot of things... basically using the boiler size in order to estimate the volume of water in the system.

What actually determines tank size is the VOLUME of water in the system. Since the water expands when heated approximately 3-4 % in volume from room temp to 180F, that expanded water needs a place to go. Your system does not have a massive volume of water being copper fintube baseboard and thus the 30 size should be fine. My own boiler is a bit smaller than yours, but similar installed baseboard and the 30 size is adequate.

Empirical evidence that the pressure goes from 12 to 20 further says that the 30 is fine. IF your gauge is accurate! We don't know that yet!

-3- What is your advice on Water Worker 4.4-Gallon VS Amtrol #30.
No clue... never heard of it!

It's got a 5 year warranty though... save the receipt!

-4- I can manage with some EXTRA LLLONGER nipples to get #60 (7.3 gallons) attached and put it between water heater and boiler, it will be of great inconvenience and will be in way blocking things BUT do you think I must go with that even though at this time i dont seem to have any problem with 4.4 gallons.
I would hold off on that ... if it's OK, it's OK.
 
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Old 03-14-15, 09:48 AM
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Thanks Guys

Boiler is too hot,,, consider lowering it to 180F..
How do i do that ?
 
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Old 03-14-15, 10:11 AM
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How do i do that ?
Need to find high limit control and adjust it.

Is there a gray Honeywell box inside the front cover of the boiler?

Utica - 225 AGB
You sure? Please check again.
 
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Old 03-14-15, 10:17 AM
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No... it's here:



Cut power to boiler, remove the gray cover and tell us setting of temperature dial inside.
 
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Old 03-14-15, 10:22 AM
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How old you think that boiler is?

I'm wondering why there is no vent damper on it.
 
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Old 03-14-15, 10:59 AM
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How old you think that boiler is?

I'm wondering why there is no vent damper on it.
pre 2006 at least.. The utica archived units only go back that far, and there is no AGB listed. Just the MGB's...
 
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Old 03-14-15, 11:14 AM
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That's why I'm wondering if it's really an MGB
 
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