New boiler won't fire up

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Old 03-30-15, 02:42 PM
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New boiler won't fire up

I had these guys install a new hot water boiler. I had a hole in one of the baseboard heater pipes. The guys said they would return the next the day to fix the pipe and finish the job. They never returned that was a few months ago. I had the pipes repaired and fired up the boiler. It comes on I can hear the circulating pump working. I hear the electronic iginitor clicking for about 30 seconds and then it stops and the boiler doesn't light. This is a Green Mountain boiler model GMGWB070FE. This boiler is new and as far as I know has never been on. Any input would be appreciated. I just got a new camera and learning how to use it. I will post some pictures soon if needed.
 
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Old 03-30-15, 03:40 PM
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You're sure that the gas is turned on?

You say they never came back... do you know if they leak tested the gas piping?
 
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Old 03-30-15, 03:58 PM
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I trust that you haven't paid them before the completion of the job?
 
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Old 03-30-15, 04:16 PM
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I gave them a payment to start but they still was owed more money. I tested the piping with soap and water and also a gas leak detector. yes the gas is on.
 
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Old 03-30-15, 04:35 PM
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How many times have you tried to light it?

There could still be air in the gas piping that needs to be purged before it will light.
 
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Old 03-30-15, 06:46 PM
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if there is air how do you purge it out?
 
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Old 03-31-15, 03:51 PM
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is there a way I can see if there is air in the gas pipes? I don't know if it matters but I am able to light the gas water heater.
 
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Old 03-31-15, 03:59 PM
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I'm not a 'gas guy' really, so I don't know of any tricks to purge air.

How far is the water heater from the boiler?
 
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Old 03-31-15, 06:47 PM
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The water heater is right next to the boiler.
 
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Old 03-31-15, 06:58 PM
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OK, so maybe not an air problem then... MAYBE not...

Do you own and know how to use a multimeter?
 
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Old 03-31-15, 07:01 PM
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By the way... have you VISUALLY confirmed that the pilot does not light?
 
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Old 03-31-15, 07:10 PM
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There's a display on the control.

What numbers appear as the unit is attempting to start?
 
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Old 03-31-15, 07:28 PM
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Yes i have a multimeter. I'm not pro but can use it.
I have checked all I visually see is sparks as the electronic ignition attempt to light.
I see the number 6 display when the boiler attempts to start.
 
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Old 03-31-15, 07:34 PM
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I see the number 6 display when the boiler attempts to start.
I'd like to know the entire sequence... it should start at 'IDLE', which is " 1 ", then maybe " 4 ", then " 6 " ... and then probably other numbers after it fails to start... possibly " 10 " ...

Don't turn it off when it fails to start the first time, it should try again in about 30 seconds or so.

Observe the entire sequence.

Set your multimeter to read AC VOLTS.

Find the terminals on the gas valve labeled " PV " and " PV/MV ".

Connect the probes to those terminals and initiate a call for heat.

If the pilot valve is being told to open by the control, you should see 24VAC (nominal) during time it's trying to light pilot.
 
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Old 03-31-15, 08:24 PM
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the entire sequence is: 1-17-18-17-6-10
with the multimeter on AC Volts I touched the probes to the gas valve terminals PV and PV/MV.
At a call for heat the meter is fluctuating from between a high of 27 to a low of 5 not reading a steady 24 VAC.
 
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Old 04-01-15, 06:53 AM
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The fluctuating voltage would lead me to suspect first that there was not good connection of the meter probes to the terminals. 27VAC would be OK, that falls in the 'nominal' range for 24VAC control.

Please make sure that you have good connection of the meter probes, that there is no problem with the meter itself, and test again.

The sequence would appear to be correct... after the "10" is displayed, will the control attempt again after 30 seconds or so? Or does it just sit there doing nothing?
 
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Old 04-01-15, 09:18 AM
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I was inspecting the control board this morning and I noticed that a couple of wires were cut that supply's the 24 VAC. It looks like the guy that was working on it was going to install the power from the low water cut off to these lines. I connected them back minus connecting the low water cut off being that I'm not 100% sure of how to wire it. That seem to be the problem the boiler fired up but now I'm noticing that after 5 to 10 minus the boiler cuts off and doesn't fire back on it's own. I check the temperature gauge and even at about 170 degress the boiler is not kicking back on. I can still here the circulating pump running. I tried cutting it off and back on It got it to fire back up but after the 5 min period it does the same thing shuts off and don't come back on.
 
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Old 04-01-15, 09:59 AM
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R,
Although your hot water heater works there can very will be air in your boiler gas line because of the new installation the line must be bled. There should be a tee with a nipple and a cap before it goes into the gas valve.
You must remember you only have a very tiny hole in the pilot line so it will take forever to bleed the air out.
One way to bleed the air out is to remove the cap on the gas line going into the boiler, open up the valve until you smell gas. Shut off the gas and reinstall the cap with pipe dope.
When doing this you must shut off your hot water heater valve to kill the pilot because of the gas from the line being bled. The fumes will ignite being that close.
Once bled wait a few minutes for the gas to dissipate and then try the boiler. It should start.
If all goes well relight the hot water heater.
I'm pretty sure N.Y has gas codes and a permit should be pulled by a licensed plumber who should also light the boiler. If you don't want to deal with him at least get another licensed man in.
What I've explained was for information only. If you have never worked with gas at all you SHOULDN'T be playing with gas pipes but the boiler never being fired I think Trooper was right on target about the air in the line.
The only other thing you can do is to keep resetting it and eventually the air will bleed out the pilot tube and that way is the safe way for the homeowner.
I would still have it checked to make sure it's piped correctly. The way this contractor treated you I wouldn't trust him.
 
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Old 04-01-15, 11:07 AM
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Now that it seems to be working, I guess the point may be moot about the air in the line?

What you are observing may be normal operation. When the boiler hits it's high limit settings, the burner will cut off. As long as there is a heat call the pump will run.

When the boiler cools to it's high limit MINUS the DIFFERENTIAL, which can be up to 30F on your control ( I think, without looking at the documents again) the burner will fire again.
 
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Old 04-01-15, 11:20 AM
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Okay I'm back home now. I will start the boiler back up and let it stay on for a good while to see if it kicks back on when it cuts off. Meanwhile if it's not working normal operation is there a way to check the limit settings and or adjust. Is it possible the limit settings are not set correct? I will check back in about a hour or so and let you know the results.
 
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Old 04-01-15, 02:04 PM
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Something is not right.
I had it on for 2 hours the baseboards are still cold. I got the thermostat up all the way. I think the boiler only came back on once in the 2 hour period.
 
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Old 04-01-15, 02:34 PM
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Oh ... are you sure there's WATER IN IT?

I hope you checked that first!

Tell us the readings on the boiler gauge, both temperature and pressure.
 
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Old 04-01-15, 02:35 PM
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Time to break out that new camera and show us the installation... all the piping around the boiler.
 
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Old 04-01-15, 05:17 PM
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I am pretty sure there is water in the boiler. I heard the water flowing to the pipes when I first opened the pipes to put water in the system. Just a little while ago I took a buck and open the pipe and hot water poured out. just before it shut down the temperature was around 180 and the pressure was 20.

I am working on the camera now. I hope to get some pics up in about a hour.
 
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Old 04-01-15, 05:56 PM
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There is probably water in the boiler (at least I hope so!!!) but your zones are probably all full of air.

Hopefully they installed 'purge stations' that will allow you to easily push the air out and fill them with water.

Waiting for pics...
 
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Old 04-01-15, 06:11 PM
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Still figuring out the camera hope to get the pics up before you fall a sleep.

This is not the boiler I have my 4 zones on. this is a separate boiler for a rental in my house there are no zones.
It seems when I mess with the damper that's when the boiler seems to kick on but i am not sure yet it could be it was turning on around the same time I messed with the damper.
 
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Old 04-01-15, 07:45 PM
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having trouble uploading pics. I will have to try it again tomorrow.
 
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Old 04-02-15, 06:04 AM
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Photos may be too large...

Since the forum resizes photos to fit and often they can't be seen well, it might be better to set up a free account at Photo and image hosting, free photo galleries, photo editing and upload the pics to a public album and place a link to the album here. Then we can go there and view them full size.
 
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Old 04-02-15, 06:11 AM
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I went down to the boiler this morning to make sure it was water in it. when i opened the valve I heard air coming out so i let it run till i heard no more air. The boiler seems to be working now. the apartment is heating up and the boiler is firing on normally when it cuts off.
Now that it seems to be running normal I would like to connect the wiring for the low water cut off.
The low water cut -off switch is a McDonnell & Miller Guard Dog Model RB-24E. Does this wiring sound correct? red and white wires to 24 vac, 1 yellow wire from switch to 24 vac, the last yellow wire from switch to 1 of the yellow wires from boiler that connects to thermostat.
 
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Old 04-02-15, 06:14 AM
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The new camera needs a memory card. I just ordered one. I was trying to use my phone but at this point I guess it's no rush to get the pics on the forum.
 
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Old 04-02-15, 06:28 AM
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I would wire the RED and WHITE from the RB-24E to the BROWN and PINK of the 24VAC transformer.

The YELLOWS would go in series with the BLACK wires that run from the ROLLOUT and SPILL switches. These are the black wires coming from P5-4 and P5-6.
 
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Old 04-02-15, 03:02 PM
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Okay I am trying to install the low water cut off switch. I got power but when I push the test button the red light comes on but the boiler does not cut off. You think I wired the yellow wires correctly? I took one yellow wire and connected to the black P5-4 and the other yellow wire I connected to the black P5-6.
 
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Old 04-02-15, 04:15 PM
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No, not right...

You need to wire the yellow wires in SERIES with the black wires to the rollout and spill switch.

You wired them IN PARALLEL.

You need to break ONE of the black wires from EITHER 4 or 6 and wire the yellow wires to those.
 
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Old 04-02-15, 04:34 PM
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Okay I think I understand.
I will wire both yellow to 4 or 6.
I will give it a try and report back.
 
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Old 04-02-15, 04:48 PM
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I will wire both yellow to 4 or 6.
But not both of them together, right?

One yellow goes to the black that comes from either 4 or 6.

The other yellow goes to the black that comes from the safety switches.
 
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Old 04-02-15, 05:39 PM
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I am a little confused.
Where is the safety switches?
I will put one yellow with either 4 or 6
but I need to know where the safety switches is to connect the 2nd yellow.
You only mentioned the ROLLOUT and SPILL switches. in your previous reply's.
 
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Old 04-02-15, 06:03 PM
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but I need to know where the safety switches is to connect the 2nd yellow.
You only mentioned the ROLLOUT and SPILL switches. in your previous reply's.
Sorry... the rollout and spill ARE the safety switches.

So let's say that you break the black wire that comes off 4 or 6 ... one yellow wire goes to the black that comes from the connector, and the other yellow wire goes to the black wire that goes to the rollout and spill switches.
 
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Old 04-02-15, 10:27 PM
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Finally figured it out. The LWCO is working. Thanks NJT for your help.
 
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Old 04-03-15, 03:26 PM
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Good job, and You're welcome!
 
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