Boiler wont fire

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  #1  
Old 11-13-15, 06:25 AM
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Boiler wont fire

I have a WGO series 3 oil fired boiler with a beckett burner. When I flipped the power switch on this season and upped the thermostats to fire, the pump motor does not start. The thermostats call for heat and the sequence starts however when the call to pump motor to start it does nothing. I checked the CAD cell and its ok. I checked the solenoid and its ok. This seems electrical related possibly in the aquastat. I am looking for some help to determine what if any part needs to be replaced.
 
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  #2  
Old 11-13-15, 02:06 PM
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burner start

Hi, I'm not sure exactly what you're describing. When you say the sequence starts, what does that mean? And the pump doesn't start- is that the burner pump motor, or the circulator pump?
Steve
 
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Old 11-13-15, 03:14 PM
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My questions too...

Does the BURNER FIRE and the water in the boiler come up to temp?

or is it the WATER CIRCULATING PUMP? meaning that the hot water does not get pumped into the home?
 
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Old 11-14-15, 06:13 AM
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The circulator starts but the oil pump motor does not. Therefore no oil to burner.
 
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Old 11-14-15, 06:54 AM
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The thermostats call for heat and the sequence starts
What do you mean by " the sequence starts " ?

Please explain what happens.

What aquastat do you have on the boiler? They used different ones over the years.

Do you own and know how to use a multimeter?
 
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Old 11-14-15, 08:36 AM
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The sequence I refer to is the clicks coming from the aquastat. I have a multimeter and have checked some conditions, fuse, power in etc. The aquastat is L7224A,C Honeywell. It seems as if the thermostat calls for heat, circulator starts and then nothing else happens. Normally the pump motor starts, oil begins and ignition occurs. None of those things happen
 
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Old 11-14-15, 09:36 AM
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Normally the pump motor starts
You should just call it the burner or the oil burner to eliminate confusion.

In the following link.... the diagram for your aquastat.... page 7 shows the burner connected to B1 and B2 terminals. You need to check those terminals for 120vac.

aquastat/manuals/1318346979043/65942_PROD_FILE.pdf
 
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Old 11-14-15, 01:51 PM
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Yes I have 120 at B1 and B2,
 
  #9  
Old 11-14-15, 04:12 PM
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earnyms-

I’m no expert to say the least, but if you have 120 at B1 B2 (I have the 7224U) I think your next step would be to check out the burner control. I would check all the connections in the junction box at the burner control and make sure a wire didn’t slip out of a wire nut.

If those connections look good I would then use the meter on the connections going to the black and white wires connected to the burner motor. You should get 120 there. If you DO get 120 there then I think that would point to the motor as the problem.

But if you DO NOT get 120 there you would think that would indicate the burner control is bad, but I’m not sure that absolutely points to a bad burner control, because (and I’m really not sure) I think it is possible that a really bad CAD cell can cause the burner control to not even attempt to run the motor. Something like the burner control wants to make sure a CAD cell is actually in place before it even attempts to pump oil, and an infinite CAD cell resistance could mean the cell is actually missing (or I guess really screwed up) or I guess a loose connection. I think I came across that information at one time.

But the guys that know this stuff, and I mean REALLY know this stuff, could jump in here if needed at that time and really be able to eliminate the CAD cell I’m sure.

If this is the correct manual I think page 24 would show the wiring connections for your burner control:

http://www.weil-mclain.com/en/assets...%20VERSION.pdf

(p.s. I think I would also make certain that you get 120 at the burner control where the 2 wires coming from the 7224 (ie. B1/B2)connect to the burner control. I guess it could be possible a wire broke somehow)
 
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Old 11-14-15, 04:30 PM
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There should be a four pin quick disconnect supplying power to your burner. Make sure that is plugged in all the way. You didn't mention what burner your Weil- McLain boiler uses but all the burner wiring diagrams are shown on page 24.

Weil-Mclain/WGO/Boiler Manual/WEB VERSION.pdf
 
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Old 11-15-15, 03:39 AM
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My thinking is that on start up all the appropriate safety items are checked first. So the signal is sent to CAD cell to check for flame, the low water is checked etc. prior to burner motor starting. Since I have 120 on B1 and B2 at the aquastat I dont know if that current is continued to the burner unless all other conditions are met. I'm thinking it may be in the 24 volt, low voltage somewhere. I do have 24 volts to the zone controls but do not have 24 volts at the burner control.
 
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Old 11-15-15, 07:41 AM
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Since I have 120 on B1 and B2 at the aquastat I dont know if that current is continued to the burner unless all other conditions are met.
It is.

If you've got 120 at B1 and B2, the burner should attempt to start.

I presume you've pushed (ONE TIME!) the reset button on the burner primary control?

There may be a reset button on the burner motor also, make sure that hasn't popped.
 
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Old 11-15-15, 08:25 AM
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Well shucks Iím posting this anyway even after I saw NJTís response Ė because it takes me so long to type I canít stand to throw this in the trash Ė lol.

earn I donít think that is correct. (PJ can correct this if so). When the L7224 energizes B1/B2 it has already made the decision that it wants the burner to run, and when the L7224 turns off B1/B2 it has then decided it wants the burner to stop. Unless something is wrong at the burner the burner should run when B1/B2 is energized Ė unless B1 passes through another control (as depicted on page 24 as ďAdditional Temperature Limit controlĒ) on its way to the burner and that control inhibits B1 on its way to the burner.

In other words the burner is just a slave here and is not making decisions about low water cutoff etc. It should run when B1/B2 is energized.

If you have the Beckett 7505 burner control arenít there a few ledís on the control and a reset button? I thought a red light came on if the burner control goes into lockout? Maybe the burner control just needs to be reset via the push buttons. I donít think you would in fact measure 24vac at the burner control; there should be a jumper wire between TR-TW on the control (if it is in fact the 7505 control, page 24). In other words the thermostat doesnít connect to the burner.
 
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Old 11-16-15, 05:45 AM
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I do not have a reset button on the burner motor. The reset button on the primary controller has been pressed once. It only allows reset though if there has been a shutdown during the burn cycle. Since I haven't had a burn cycle yet it is not able to reset. It is likely the aquastat is bad. I need to buy a new one anybody have a new one for sale? I can use a L7224U as a replacement.
 
  #15  
Old 11-16-15, 06:24 PM
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earnyms I think you are making a mistake. I donít blame you for disagreeing with me, and I donít mean that sarcastically, but you are making a big mistake if you donít listen to NJT (and PJmax). At the risk of sounding like a sycophant, NJT really is an expert Ė I mean REALLY an expert.

Just sayin!

Nevertheless, I thought I got my last L7224U from Patriot-Supply but I donít see it listed on their web site now, but maybe they do have it. They have a good reputation. Iíve gotten stuff from them in the past and have been very happy. They deliver very fast and have good prices.
 
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Old 11-17-15, 05:38 AM
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Zoesdad flatters me! but I don't mind!

Listen to Zoesdad! If you have 120VAC at B1 and B2, the burner should attempt to start, UNLESS the tiny red pushbutton on the end of some burner motors has popped out, or the primary control has tripped... etc...

I don't think you've told us how old this system is? What primary control is on the burner? Whether you have an old style burner motor ?

You're jumping to conclusions and that's gonna cost you money.
 
  #17  
Old 11-17-15, 07:49 AM
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Boiler was new installed 11/07. Beckett Burner Model AFG, Primary controller R7184P by Honeywell. Beckett motor part number 21805. I already mentioned it is a L7224A,C or L7248A,C aquastat. There is no reset button on the burner motor. The reset button on R7174P controller is not able to be reset since it has not fired yet this year.
 
  #18  
Old 11-18-15, 12:17 PM
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I posted the details regarding my boiler burner and controller for whoever was interested. Still not firing and I have not bought the new aquastat yet.
 
  #19  
Old 11-20-15, 06:21 AM
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I've done everything asked so far. Still not firing. Anybody got any more ideas before I buy the aquastat or call in a pro?
 
  #20  
Old 11-20-15, 07:37 AM
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TURN OFF THE POWER.

Open the transformer on the top of the burner and swing it up.

With your finger ( AND POWER OFF!!!! ) give the squirrel cage fan inside a push. It should turn freely. Spin it around a little.

Close transformer up and try it again.

SOMETIMES RARELY the motor can have a problem that it stops on a 'bad spot' and won't start. Moving it manually might just get it going, but if it does, the motor should be replaced.

Have you checked in the box underneath the primary control for broken wires? Or even to see if the 120VAC is getting to the control?

You said that it can't have tripped the reset because it hasn't run yet... but did you actually push the button and tried it again?

Once again... if you have 120VAC at B1 and B2 then the problem is NOT in the aquastat.

You said you've tried everything suggested... does that include the troubleshooting steps that Zoesdad posted about checking the wires to the burner motor? If you did that, you never reported the results.
 
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Old 11-20-15, 09:23 AM
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Thanks for the reply. Yes I have spun the squirrel cage. It seemed fine, no drag or anything. I dont think I checked for 120 in the control box yet. It should be there, I assume, if it is there at the B1 B2 in the aquastat unless a wire is broken or disconnected? I'm definately not an electrician so I am cautious when I check these things. One more question is about the low voltage. Is that somehow the on/off switch that starts the motor? Thanks again.
 
  #22  
Old 11-20-15, 09:47 AM
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Also I did check the wires and connector and they are secure.
 
  #23  
Old 11-20-15, 05:46 PM
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earn Iím no expert either but I think if you download this manual and look at page 3, figures 2 and 3 on that page would be helpful.

Download Honeywell R7184U PDF Manual (8 Pages)

Using fig 2 as a reference:

(1) I think you should see 120v at [Limit and L2] when the system wants the burner to run.

(2) I think you should see 120v at[ Burner Motor and L2 ] when the 7184P wants the motor to run.

If (1) is TRUE and (2) is FALSE I believe something is going wrong in the 7184P, because (1) implies (2) in a properly functioning 7184P. I think figure 3 shows there is no low voltage switch.

The above seems correct to me, but as always, on this forum there is enough expertise to correct any of the above. However it seems to me you canít hurt the system by measuring the voltage. But you must be careful to not hurt yourself as Iím sure you know.
 
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