Antique Boiler


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Old 11-19-15, 11:17 AM
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Antique Boiler

-- Minneapolis, MN

-- larger two story house bought 2 years ago

Son bumped a pop off valve or something so he called the gas company to reset it, works fine now.

Gas company said this is pretty old and should be replaced. They told him they could install a new one for ~$8,000 + $2,200 to remove asbestos. Lots a bucks there, no problems since buying the place.











I know nothing about boilers so I'm wondering what you guys think of this beast.


Thanks!
 
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Old 11-19-15, 10:19 PM
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Well, it IS old and it IS a beast but neither of those conditions warrant a replacement. It DOES look like it has been cared for over the years and I notice some new piping, most likely for make-up water, along side. Things to be alert to is the asbestos-containing insulation and any leaks. It appears that someone has placed duct tape over some cracked or broken insulation and THAT needs to be watched. Duct tape is not the proper material as it will eventually dry out and fall off. Better to use a paint-on encapsulating material or at least a heavy coat of latex paint to seal the asbestos.

The asbestos is not a hazard UNLESS it breaks and releases fibers into the atmosphere. Removing the asbestos IS a hazardous job and must be done in accordance with special rules that may be enforced by your local or state health department. Much better to encapsulate the asbestos and forget about it until you have to deal with it.

While it IS true that a new boiler could somewhat reduce the fuel costs over the beast, the amount of savings would take many years, probably at least ten, before it even began to recover the capital cost of replacement. Ten thousand dollars will buy one heck of a lot of natural gas for that thing. You DO need to periodically have the internal firesides cleaned as well as the burner adjustments checked for proper combustion. Every other year for this service is probably sufficient.
 
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Old 11-20-15, 06:38 AM
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That's what I was thinking but wasn't sure, just because it is old doesn't mean it will launch itself through the roof tomorrow.

My son is the king of duct tape, I'm sure he put that on there for whatever reason. I tried to contact him before posting to see what his gas bill is, he must have been working.

I'll send this to him, I'm sure he will appreciate it.

Thanks very much.
 
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Old 11-20-15, 03:59 PM
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I would have it replaced but shop around a bit to compare the prices. Also make sure the company does a heat loss to properly size the boiler. If the contractor sizes the new boiler by matching the same size as the old boiler or measures the amount of radiation in the home is not doing their job properly.
This was a coal fired boiler at one time so the size of the flue passes are allowing much more fuel out the chimney.
I understand maybe waiting to replace due to still working. My thoughts you are spending 30% to maybe 50% more in fuel. This means as you wait you are chasing good money after bad. Maybe you get 5 years out of it. 5 years of more fuel is not the end of the world but now the prices of all parts and labor have also gone up. In a time when we are not making much on our savings it may be wiser to replace it and bank the savings. The savings will far outweigh the interest not earned.
 
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Old 11-20-15, 03:59 PM
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Interesting Conversation

His budget amount is $115 a month which includes his hot water heater (new piping) and kitchen stove. Christ, I pay almost that much for just me and I take a shower once a month if I need it or not... I need a new meter.

Anyway, elderly couple he bought it from said the rectangular box near the floor (Roberts Gas Burner) was for "leaded gasoline" that fired the furnace. What? He believed it so I looked it up. Looks to me like that was to convert a coal fired boiler to natural gas but I could be wrong. I've just never heard of anyone heating their house with gasoline.





He was much relieved and said "THANKS"
 
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Old 11-20-15, 04:12 PM
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We'll see what the end of the year brings. Plus what about parts
 
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Old 11-20-15, 04:16 PM
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We were typing at the same time.

This was a coal fired boiler at one time...
I'll be darned but that's better than gasoline I guess.

He realizes it should be replaced but 8-10k right now is a bit much to swallow. I'll send him the link to this so he can look at it.

Thanks!!

Apologies to my son, the duct tape was there when he bought the place.
 
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Old 11-20-15, 04:23 PM
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He can get better pricing than that. I have some contacts out there if he needs pricing.
 
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Old 11-20-15, 04:23 PM
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Plus what about parts
Yeah, that could be an adventure.
 
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Old 11-20-15, 04:27 PM
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He can get better pricing than that. I have some contacts out there if he needs pricing.
Thanks, I'll let him know. He does want to keep that gauge though.
 
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Old 11-20-15, 04:32 PM
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What does that unit have for a circulator ?

Maybe one is hiding there somewhere; but I don't see it !

I once evaluated a home with a boiler that looked somewhat like that and it relied on convection to get heat up to the living quarters.

The simple addition of an electronic aquastat and circulator could make quite a differance.
 
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Old 11-21-15, 12:13 AM
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$115 per month budget plan is $1,380 a year. That may not be a bad figure in Minnesota. I seriously doubt that a new boiler would lower the fuel consumption by 50% and maybe not even by 25%. Now depending on how much hot water he uses and how much cooking on the kitchen range is done the fuel costs for those items may be around $25 per month. Removing those fixed costs (more or less fixed as it includes the billing charges assessed by the gas utility) would mean the cost to heat the house would be around $1080 a year, let's call it $1100. If you could safe 25% of that it would be around $275 a year in savings or (assuming no inflation) about $2750 after ten years or $5,500 after twenty years or roughly thirty years before you saved enough in fuel costs to pay for the new boiler.

Of course that is a simplified payback and you would need to come up with an inflation factor to improve the real-world cost as well as also assessing the interest on the loan required to finance the new boiler OR the lost interest if you took the full amount out of savings. Since estimating the increase in fuel costs or interest rates (savings or loans) more than a year or so out is difficult I always use the no increased costs method of figuring payback.

Now as for the ability to "find parts" for something that old...the parts that are most in need of replacement are readily available. Things like pressure gauge, thermometer, flame safety device, safety valve, automatic fill valve and even circulating pumps or controls are essentially the same no matter how old the boiler proper. You MIGHT have to do some minor piping changes to get them to fit but that could happen with a modern boiler as well.

Further, there are probably many things that can be done with the house itself to lower the heat loss and therefore make the house more energy efficient which would reduce the need for supplemental heat and therefore lower the fuel costs...which would make the payback for a new boiler even longer.

Now I WILL state that there are a couple of things that might be done to the boiler, if they haven't already been done, that would somewhat increase its efficiency. Some judicious baffling in the combustion gas passes could do wonders at reducing the fuel input needed for a specific heat output. Since this is such a simple thing it may have already been done when it was converted to accept the natural gas burner. Also, replacement of that ancient conversion burner with a more modern version, something that would cost somewhere around $1,000 to maybe $1,500, (prices last time I looked, which was a few years ago) would probably not be a bad investment.

At any rate, unless you have some catastrophic failure I would not consider doing anything more than absolutely necessary before late spring or early summer. If it is heating the house now leave it be. Winter is no time to be doing major changes to a heating system.
 
 

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