Hydrostat 3200 all lights blinking


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Old 12-27-15, 09:18 PM
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Hydrostat 3200 all lights blinking

hydrostat 3200 all lights blinking *

I was out of house, got a call from my wife. There was a loud noise coming from the boiler and some water. Had her shut it all down. I got home, the safety relief let water and pressure out. I noticed the room was hot and checked the boiler temp. It was over 200, maybe 220. Way too high.

I was going to let the temp drop before turning it on, so I checked the pressure of the expansion tank and autofill, both are set to 14-15psi.
Once the boiler temp went to 180. I turned on the unit. Fired up no issue, then stayed lit....kept burning and the hydrostat all LED blinked and the digit read out, over and over, wouldn't stop. The boiler kept heating, so I turned it off again. I have the manual but there is no troubleshooting on this exact issue.

Nothing has changed, it has been working for the last 3 months without issue.

I will check 24v between B1 and B2, otherwise the last flow chart thing is replace control. It is 4 F outside now, so this is, well fairly urgent.

Anyone run into this hydrostat issue? I was going to order another unit, but curious if this is a common issue on this model?

I have a slant fin sentry 120, this hydrostat came on the unit I bought. I see they have a 3250 plus. Not sure what the best or new one is to get?
 

Last edited by northvibe; 12-27-15 at 09:19 PM. Reason: title missing a G
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Old 12-27-15, 10:18 PM
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Video to show burner not shutting off and click + blinking of hydrostat.

http://youtu.be/p7YYylArSks
 
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Old 12-28-15, 08:49 AM
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northvibe –

I’m not an expert and I don’t have the slant fin and I don’t have the hydrostat 3200. It looks like no one out there has reported a problem like that. But if it were me I would:

(1) Push that test button a few times and hold it in for a few seconds and also hold it for 30 seconds, etc. To see if that might tell you something.

(2) I would open the cover on the 3200 and make sure all the wires are tight at the terminals.

(3) I would make sure that the sensor bulb is pushed all the way in the well and make sure it is connected properly on the other end in the 3200.

(4) I think as a last step I would disconnect everything from the 3200 terminals except L1/L2, then power the 3200 back on and see if it still goes through that continuous loop that you show on the video. If it does then I think (not sure) that would indicate the 3200 is bad. If it seems OK when you only have L1/L2 connected but goes crazy again when you give it T-T, then I think that would also indicate a bad 3200.

It looks like it’s going through a microprocessor reset over and over or something like that.

Would be great if someone here has seen that problem but it doesn’t seem so.
 
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Old 12-28-15, 09:03 PM
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northvibe –

I’m not an expert and I don’t have the slant fin and I don’t have the hydrostat 3200. It looks like no one out there has reported a problem like that. But if it were me I would:




(2) I would open the cover on the 3200 and make sure all the wires are tight at the terminals.

(3) I would make sure that the sensor bulb is pushed all the way in the well and make sure it is connected properly on the other end in the 3200.

(4) I think as a last step I would disconnect everything from the 3200 terminals except L1/L2, then power the 3200 back on and see if it still goes through that continuous loop that you show on the video. If it does then I think (not sure) that would indicate the 3200 is bad. If it seems OK when you only have L1/L2 connected but goes crazy again when you give it T-T, then I think that would also indicate a bad 3200.

It looks like it’s going through a microprocessor reset over and over or something like that.

Would be great if someone here has seen that problem but it doesn’t seem so.
Thank you for the reply! I fear this isn't a common issue, as all the fail safes, electronically, were not done and if my wife wasn't home it could of been bad news.


(1) Push that test button a few times and hold it in for a few seconds and also hold it for 30 seconds, etc. To see if that might tell you something.
This does nothing different :/ Holding for 30 seconds should initiate the water bleed out thing.

(2) I would open the cover on the 3200 and make sure all the wires are tight at the terminals.
Yup! Checked that, all wires look good

(3) I would make sure that the sensor bulb is pushed all the way in the well and make sure it is connected properly on the other end in the 3200.
I haven't taken the 3200 off to see if it is in the well properly, but the wires are all good and the unit hasn't moved. If this wasn't seated properly I would hope the control would still initiate but give a faulty temp reading?

(4) I think as a last step I would disconnect everything from the 3200 terminals except L1/L2, then power the 3200 back on and see if it still goes through that continuous loop that you show on the video. If it does then I think (not sure) that would indicate the 3200 is bad. If it seems OK when you only have L1/L2 connected but goes crazy again when you give it T-T, then I think that would also indicate a bad 3200.
I can try this tomorrow after work. I have tested for voltage between B1 and B2. With both thermostats off, I turn on the unit and test for voltage between B1 and B2, it is 25.xx VAC.


I have a new 3200 on order, should be here Wednesday. I have the house running on room heaters, it is okay, but the wife doesn't love 55-60 degrees I called my master electrician dad, master plumber uncle, hvac engineer cousin, who all helped me get the boiler and they've never seen this. Also they all said fail safes should of not allowed it to do that. Since the control doesn't fully initialize, I guess/assume it is the first thing to replace. I hope the new one fixes it, but I do worry this could happen again and I may install a secondary sensor that can turn off the unit if it goes over 200 F.
 
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Old 12-29-15, 04:47 AM
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Hydrostat

Maybe a call to Hydrolevel? I've had zero problems with mine. Steve
 
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Old 12-29-15, 08:12 AM
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Maybe a call to Hydrolevel? I've had zero problems with mine. Steve
It was installed over a year ago so the warranty expired, so I didn't even think to contact them. I just reached out to them and left them a message. Hopefully I hear back!

Thank you for that! I'll post updates and a fix if found. New 3200 will be here tomorrow.
 
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Old 12-29-15, 08:36 AM
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I agree it is scary the way it failed. Any failsafe features did not work. It’s a darn good thing your pressure relief valve was working. It does seem to me you must be correct and the 3200 is bonkers and it is also probably an extremely rare problem.

I hope the new one fixes it, but I do worry this could happen again and I may install a secondary sensor that can turn off the unit if it goes over 200 F.
That seems like a pretty good idea. You have me thinking about doing something like that also.

I bet contacting Hydrolevel as sdodder points out would be a good idea. I wonder if maybe they have no idea it could fail the way it did.

Good luck, hope you get it Wednesday. It doesn’t take very long to replace the control (I replaced 2 L7224U Aquastats myself) so I would bet you would be back with heat Wednesday if you get the control then.

Good luck!
 
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Old 12-29-15, 08:46 AM
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I agree it is scary the way it failed. Any failsafe features did not work. It’s a darn good thing your pressure relief valve was working. It does seem to me you must be correct and the 3200 is bonkers and it is also probably an extremely rare problem.
Right?! So weird.

That seems like a pretty good idea. You have me thinking about doing something like that also.
Yes! If I do I will post up what was done. Most likely a raspberry pi or arduino w/ sensor and then connect that to the switch for power to the boiler. Simple but effective.

I bet contacting Hydrolevel as sdodder points out would be a good idea. I wonder if maybe they have no idea it could fail the way it did.
Hmm yes. I'm now hoping they may want to get the unit back to do testing on what failed.

Good luck, hope you get it Wednesday. It doesn’t take very long to replace the control (I replaced 2 L7224U Aquastats myself) so I would bet you would be back with heat Wednesday if you get the control then.
Ah, good to know. This will be the first time replacing one. So I'll label, take pics, and then swap over.

Thank you!
 
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Old 12-29-15, 08:11 PM
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Maybe a call to Hydrolevel? I've had zero problems with mine. Steve
It was installed over a year ago so the warranty expired, so I didn't even think to contact them. I just reached out to them and left them a message. Hopefully I hear back!

Thank you for that! I'll post updates and a fix if found. New 3200 will be here tomorrow.
Hydrolevel got back to me. Here is what they said, not quoted:

That it is a control indicating the boiler temp reached 250 F. The display is showing high limit safety condition.

To reset the unit, turn off power, hold test button on control, power unit on.

-----------------------------------------------------------

I tried this tonight. The boiler started, showed the water temp, started running. I was going to wait for it to heat before turning on thermostats, so I went upstairs for a few minutes. Came back down, it was already at 240 F. I shut it down, and sure enough everything was hot as f. Safety relief went off again and the air vent was venting.

I told them in my reply that the condition still left my boiler heating, so the reason it went to 250 was because of the control, but did not hear back. I will call them tomorrow as this is a serious concern. Will post more when I find out more.
 
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Old 12-29-15, 09:27 PM
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DONT RUN THAT BOILER UNTILL YOU GET IT FIXED. NO OFFENSE BUT LETTING it HEAT LIKE THAT FOR TRIAL AND ERROR AND NOT WATCHING IT IS PUTTING YOU AND EVERYONE IN THE HOME AT RISK OF BEING KILLED....


This is very serious..


Here is what happens when cold water from the fill valve hits a hot boiler. It will melt your skin off like butter...


Call in a pro please if you are unsure of what you are doing....!!!!!!!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGj0myJF2Gw
 
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Old 12-30-15, 08:13 AM
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DONT RUN THAT BOILER UNTILL YOU GET IT FIXED. NO OFFENSE BUT LETTING it HEAT LIKE THAT FOR TRIAL AND ERROR AND NOT WATCHING IT IS PUTTING YOU AND EVERYONE IN THE HOME AT RISK OF BEING KILLED....
I wasn't going to just leave it. I was just letting it heat up until it hit the limit, but ran upstairs. Not super smart, but it was taking some time.
 
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Old 12-30-15, 08:52 AM
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northvibe-

That is really a very very scary failure. If you look at the last decision in Flowchart 2-“Boiler Will Not Shut Down” (on page 7) of the manual (below), it seems to me to anticipate your problem. You got approx. 24 VAC at B1-B2 when there was no call for heat. So according to their own troubleshooting steps: “Replace Control”, which is what you are doing.

http://www.hydrolevel.com/pages/pdf_...f?lbisphpreq=1

Maybe I’m being simpleminded about this, but why couldn’t they just at least attempt to totally shut down, cut power to the unit, when they know the temperature has reached 250 degrees instead of that incomprehensible and undocumented LED/Display flashing loop – with probably no one there to see it anyway? I don’t see how an attempt to power down could hurt and it could only help in that emergency.
 
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Old 12-30-15, 01:26 PM
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northvibe-

That is really a very very scary failure. If you look at the last decision in Flowchart 2-“Boiler Will Not Shut Down” (on page 7) of the manual (below), it seems to me to anticipate your problem. You got approx. 24 VAC at B1-B2 when there was no call for heat. So according to their own troubleshooting steps: “Replace Control”, which is what you are doing.

http://www.hydrolevel.com/pages/pdf_...f?lbisphpreq=1

Maybe I’m being simpleminded about this, but why couldn’t they just at least attempt to totally shut down, cut power to the unit, when they know the temperature has reached 250 degrees instead of that incomprehensible and undocumented LED/Display flashing loop – with probably no one there to see it anyway? I don’t see how an attempt to power down could hurt and it could only help in that emergency.
Yeah, I'm super confused and worried. I get the new unit today, I talked with the guy at hydrolevel again, he wouldn't comment on the issue, I assume it gets near lawyer stuff then. I asked about having my old unit tested and he did get me the address to ship it to. I'll be shipping my old one back.

Even if this new one works correctly. I will be installing my secondary shut off system that does not rely on the control unit. It can get to 250+ F in 10 ish minutes, imagine being at work for hours......
 
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Old 12-30-15, 01:45 PM
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What we do is install a manual high limit as a secondary. We make a well out of the relief valve tapping with a tee and extend the relief valve off the side..

These we set for 200f or so.. If the boiler goes into over temp due to the primary aquastat failure then the secondary will trip.. It will shut off power. It will force you to go to the boiler to manually reset it. This of course would dictate that you have an issue..

L4006E1067 - Honeywell L4006E1067 - High Limit Aquastat, 130-270°F range, Manual Reset
 
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Old 12-30-15, 07:05 PM
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What we do is install a manual high limit as a secondary. We make a well out of the relief valve tapping with a tee and extend the relief valve off the side..

These we set for 200f or so.. If the boiler goes into over temp due to the primary aquastat failure then the secondary will trip.. It will shut off power. It will force you to go to the boiler to manually reset it. This of course would dictate that you have an issue..

L4006E1067 - Honeywell L4006E1067 - High Limit Aquastat, 130-270°F range, Manual Reset
So the secondary well is in the relief piping? Hmmm perfect..... I like this...

This issue is "FIXED" for the moment and the solution is so messed up.

So I get home. Install the new hydrostat 3200 Plus, not sure why I got the plus, but I ordered a 3200 and received the plus. Same unit, but has some updates and new features, looks 99% the same.

Installed it and tested. Same issue. CRAP.

Took apart the ignition control to check that pcb board as well. Looked fine.

Called my HVAC guy, he walked me through some things he knows. Took 1 wire out of the T, thermostat call, so it shouldn't be calling at all, turned off Low heat, turn off eco, set high to ~120 (something low). Still turned on.

He came to the same conclusion, bad control. He said to call slant fin's tech support and then conf call him in. Slant fin isn't open :/ ugh. I decide to dig a little more.

Break out more manual action, trace each wire, test each one. All looks good. I decide to monkey with the auto damper......

I unplug the damper from the hydrostat, plug in the hydrostat loop plug, turn on system. Boiler doesn't fire up. Good, making progress I suppose. I get the manual out for the damper, as it has 4 wires and I'm curious what each does.... Also there is a switch on the damper for auto control or "manual" open. Plug the damper back in, try both switch settings, same broken issue. I put the loop plug back in, turn on the system. Then turn on a thermostat. It works. I change the high temp, it shuts off appropriately.

(Damper is stuck open, so don't worry)

I call my hvac guy back, let him know what I found. Tell him the schematics. He isn't too familiar with slant fin, but still has never heard of this issue and thinks it is crazy.

I'm going to leave the vent in the open position for now. I have a chimney with a vent cap so all should be fine for now. What an insane issue. I assume the original hydrostat is fine, I suppose I'll keep it as a spare.

lawrosa's secondary system is intriguing so I'll probably do that as a back up......always have a backup! I think I'll call slant fin and let them know...this is nuts.....


EDIT:
I would like to add, the hydrostat 3200 plus manual includes the blinking (like I had) error issue in the manual. The plain 3200 does not.
 
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Old 12-30-15, 07:23 PM
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I get calls from plumbers I know that have me come and troubleshoot strange problems for them.

Just to get you straight..... when you put the dummy plug into the 6 port damper connector.... everything is fine ?

I can't find any diagram for a 6 pin damper..... only a 4 pin.
 

Last edited by PJmax; 12-30-15 at 07:57 PM.
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Old 12-30-15, 09:13 PM
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when you put the dummy plug into the 6 port damper connector.... everything is fine ?

He said 4 I believe... I cant see how the damper failure will continually fire the boiler. Its on a series circuit with all the other safety's..

The hydro plus has other features like low water cut off and outdoor reset capabilities I believe..

Like this kind of.. This is just to show although in this pic they did it at a different location..

Basically remove relief valve. Add a tee. Add the aquastat on the run of the tee like here. Have the tee turned so the bull is horizontal not vertical as shown here. Put the relief valve in the bull of the tee....


 
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Old 12-30-15, 09:48 PM
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Ok.... it's four wires but a six pin plug. That makes sense.

I was looking at some diagrams. A defective damper could cause the problem.

There are four wires to the damper.
24vac power
24v common
24vac to open damper
24vac to gas valve.

If the 24vac power and the 24vac to gas valve touched..... the burner would stay active regardless of what the control did.
 

Last edited by PJmax; 12-30-15 at 10:26 PM.
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Old 12-31-15, 04:17 AM
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Ok.... it's four wires but a six pin plug. That makes sense.

I was looking at some diagrams. A defective damper could cause the problem.

There are four wires to the damper.
24vac power
24v common
24vac to open damper
24vac to gas valve.

If the 24vac power and the 24vac to gas valve touched..... the burner would stay active regardless of what the control did.
Ah sorry, I was going to post the schematics but some forums frown upon pics or copies of them.

Yes it is a 6 pin plug w/ 4 wires to damper. My original hydrostat 3200 came with a jumper plug, plug with a loop back. I can take pics if that helps?

The damper plugs on both ends look good and yes you are right about those four wires. Also you have to make sure the damper is open or stuck to open. Also another thing to check is the sensor below the damper, forgot the name, safety vent sensor? It has a red square button to push and test. Pushing that, sets the sensor, so it cut the burner as well.

This damper is a "Field Controls" Slant/Fin Part# 412706040.

Lawrosa - thank you. That should be great. I'm gonna look in to that now.
 
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Old 12-31-15, 09:05 PM
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A safety boiler shutdown on overheat is a great idea but it must be wired in a 100% positive location. Based on what I had written.... a safety shutdown in the standard limit circuit could be ignored just like your controller is now if the damper saw shorted.

I would wire the safety to open the non grounded leg of the 24vac transformer.

If you have diagrams.... post them. I have older ones from previous controllers. Not the 3200.
 
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Old 01-01-16, 09:47 AM
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I would wire the new honey well to the 24 vac transformer I have right on the shut off switch of the boiler. And then have the well installed just like lawrosa posted. Then there is no reliance on the boilers control unit. I love this idea

Hydrostat 3200 manual
http://www.hydrolevel.com/pages/pdf_...f?lbisphpreq=1

Hydrostat 3200 Plus manual
http://www.hydrolevel.com/new/images...f?lbisphpreq=1


Here is the damper. It is a rebranded field controls GVD-4:
Slant Fin Part number: 412706040

Gas Vent Damper | Field Controls, LLC

Manual for GVD-4
http://www.fieldcontrols.com/filebin/pdfs/46352700.pdf
 
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Old 01-02-16, 04:50 PM
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Something seems screwy here to me (maybe I’m screwy, LOL).

The Hydrostat 3200 manual says this about the damper connection:

NOTE: Once a vent damper plug is connected to the HydroStat, the control is permanently altered and will no longer function when the vent damper plug is disconnected.
I wondered what they meant by permanently altered and out of curiosity how it was done. Then I found this from a Beckett AquaSmart 7600 manual:

Once the 7600B is operated with a vent damper, it will not function without one (even if the jumper plug is replaced). The first time a 7600B is operated with a vent damper, a fuse will pop. It is normal for this to be audible and even create a little smoke and does not indicate something is wrong with the control.
But isn’t your control now working with the loop plug back in after it had been running with the damper and the damper then removed?

I put the loop plug back in, turn on the system. Then turn on a thermostat. It works. I change the high temp, it shuts off appropriately.
Seems like something really weird is going on!

OK - I just now checked the 3200 Plus manual. It is different from the 3200 manual and does in fact NOT make any mention of a permanent alteration if the damper is removed. I wonder if that is a clue to something or just totally irrelevant?
 
 

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