B&G Series 100 noise and using lot of oil

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Old 02-10-16, 08:02 AM
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B&G Series 100 noise and using lot of oil

About 2 months ago my B&G 100 circulating pump began making awful screeching noises. I didn't know I was supposed to add oil, but found that out and put in about 3/4 a tube of the large (10oz?) B&G oil in. I suspect it was empty or very nearly so. It filled it up 100% and overflowed a slight amount. Fast forward to last night and the noise came back, though very very minimal. I had a bit of oil left, added it in and the noise went away. The oil reservoir on the B&G was very low. I am a bit concerned it went through so much oil in a short amount of time. We still have winter left and I don't want the pump to die in the middle of a cold spell. This email is essentially to ask experts if I should be worried, and if so... what should I do. Why would this go through so much oil so quickly? Are my bearings likely shot and need replacing ASAP? Any comments?? Thanks all.
 
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Old 02-10-16, 11:11 AM
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The bearing bracket has a bunch of cotton yarn in it that holds the majority of the oil and slowly feeds it to the sleeve bearing, any additional oil simply runs out the overflow hole.

Yes, your bearing is probably in really tough shape. At this time I would suggest that you somehow affix a drip pan under the pump to catch the excess oil and try to make it through the winter, adding oil as necessary to cut back on the noise. In the spring/summer when the heat is no longer required you can then either replace the bearing bracket (B&G's name for the piece) or replace the entire pump/motor assembly with a Taco F-7 pump. The Taco would be my choice as it uses considerably less electricity, is totally sealed (needs no lubrication) and the cost is only a bit more (may be less these days) than the bearing bracket alone of the B&G pump.
 
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Old 02-11-16, 07:41 AM
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Size:  26.7 KBThanks for the info. If I am going to get into this (hopefully in the spring..), I should do this correctly and I have a few questions for the experts on how best to proceed. I suspected for a while the pump area was leaking and the other night I found proof: a puddle of hot water under one of the pipes, not under the pump. I think I should redo all of this mess. Attached are some images of what I am going to be dealing with.

I also wonder about temp increase of my house. I think that it heats up slower than average, but I don't have a benchmark for this, only the fact it takes a good while to get up to temp. Is there any type of rough number like increase x degrees per hour? Reason I am asking is I see the Taco vs BG 100 debate all over the place. IF the pump has anything to do with my perceived below average heat recovery, then maybe Taco is not for me. I have a 3 zone baseboard system with an older Hydrotherm boiler. If one of the experts here can educate me on how this works, if I am off base or not, I would appreciate.

Also here are images of what I will be dealing with. I will need to replace a bunch of items here I think and not sure how easy it is for a home DIY guy. Does not look awful to me. Comments are appreciated. Thanks thanks thanks.

Looks like my images attached at the top. Sorry about that.
 
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Old 02-11-16, 09:29 AM
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Plug & Play Circulators

B&G 100 are great pumps but from another generation. Newer ECM technology pumps are cheaper and can save 80% or more in electric costs. Pumps with automatic pressure sensing/control like the Grundfos Alpha can optimize performance for different loads. Delta T pumps are another improved approach.

There are many online sources for hydronic system formulas. With the automatic sensing ECM pumps it is more of a "Plug and Play" world. My 4 zone system is well instrumented. I replaced a B&G with Grundfos Alpha and the delta T stays close to 20. Typical design range is 20F to 30F

One of the best ways to match heat output to building heat load is installing an Out Door Reset system. The Tekmar 256 is full of features and low price. Taco sells a relabeled Tekmar with a special plug for a lot more. Then to use it you either cut the plug off or buy another Taco product to plug it into.

Pump replacement for a DYI'er is easy after first removing power and water issues. First find some way of supporting the upper pipe above the pump before attempting to remove it. Then as you loosen the upper bolts try to develop a slight gap at the gasket between the upper flanges. When you have a gap it should be safe to remove pump.

When installing new pumps add isolation valves so each zone can be serviced while keeping heat available to the rest of the house.
 

Last edited by doughess; 02-11-16 at 11:06 AM.
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Old 02-11-16, 11:02 AM
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Thank You (all) for the info. I am worried the rust on the flanges/connectors is so bad that they need replacement. Would the rusty pieces shown in the other post be included in a new pump or are those potentially specialty items? The one I am most worried about is the one connecting the boiler to the pump. (The one the drain is on upside down). I am fairly handy but when it comes to replacing lots of items of possible varying diameters, I have gotten jammed up on other projects.

What do you guys all think about the rusty items? Sand the rust off, paint with rustoleum or something, get proper gaskets/sealant and pray??
 
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Old 02-11-16, 02:16 PM
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Since its a old hydrotherm like I have I would not throw too much money at it...

Remove the b and g if you make it through the winter and replace with a taco 007 as furd stated. Its a direct replacement in regards to head . The 007 actually better @ 4gpm... about 60 bucks or so...





Take pics of the boiler I am curious to see it...
 
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Old 02-11-16, 05:03 PM
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Dan, the next time you post pictures do a double line feed (press enter twice) between pictures. This keeps them from running together.

I've been retired for 11 years, well, I will be next month, and the last few years I was employed I had nothing to do with small pumps like yours so please excuse me if I am as rusty as your flanges.

As I recall, the Taco pumps normally have full-face gaskets and the B&G uses ring gaskets. I think the Taco pump has the groove to allow it to also use a ring gasket, maybe even the same size as the Taco. (Mike should know, he still does this kind of work.) If you can use the ring gaskets then just wire brushing the area where the gasket(s) will seat should be sufficient. You can, if you desire, change the upper flange although the lower is a cast iron fitting on the boiler and that won't be easy (may be impossible to find another) to replace.

Doug's idea of replacing with a high tech pump is overkill in my opinion. IF you were to replace the boiler and make other upgrades to the system I would wholeheartedly agree with him but just a pump swap, no. The Taco pump is considerably more energy efficient than the existing B&G and at a much lower replacement cost. That alone is going to be saving you money. And while I like his idea of adding isolation valves, I also agree with Mike that with that old boiler it could be sending good money after bad. The Taco pump is fully enclosed and requires no external lubrication nor does it have a coupling between the motor and the pump to fail as does the B&G. It should last as long as the boiler.
 
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Old 02-11-16, 05:17 PM
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As I recall, the Taco pumps normally have full-face gaskets and the B&G uses ring gaskets. I think the Taco pump has the groove to allow it to also use a ring gasket, maybe even the same size as the Taco. (Mike should know, he still does this kind of work.)
All rings now 100%. I have not seen full face gaskets in some 15 years or so...

The Taco pump is fully enclosed and requires no external lubrication nor does it have a coupling between the motor and the pump to fail as does the B&G. It should last as long as the boiler.
Yes its a wet rotor design...
 
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Old 02-11-16, 06:48 PM
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Actually new Taco and Grundfos come with square cross section ring gaskets. The flat red gaskets with 3 holes matching the flanges can be used on any of them. Many prefer them to the the ring type.

I have seen a much higher failure rate for Taco's. Just replaced one where the plastic impeller was apparently eaten away by rust particles with only the hub remaining.

Yes the old style pumps with separate motor, coupling and pump have more issues. That is probably why wet or direct coupled pumps are now widely used.
 
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Old 02-12-16, 06:57 AM
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I think I have it figured. My local plumbing supply has both the Taco and the bearing replacement parts. If it goes belly up this weekend, bearing replacement it is. If I Make the winter.. Taco. I hope I make the winter. I could hear the pump humming last night. I don't usually hear it.

My Hydrotherm is original about 1970. I did check the temps last night. At 5:45pm the temp in zone 2 was 51. Called for heat to 70 degrees. Zone three 53. Same heat setting there. At 1130pm temp zone 2 was 64, zone 3 66. To me this seems very low. I am hoping its due to the pump not operating well. Do these numbers seem reasonable to you guys? I don't think so but not certain. Here is an image of my hydrotherm.


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Old 02-12-16, 07:39 AM
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Where did you take these temps? T stat or pipe temp? I see the boiler temp is at zero is that correct? Can you take a pic of the zone valves?

I would assume they are opening and the circ is not working.. So any heat you are getting is from convection.

I have same boiler but mine is an hc 85. You have a big boiler there hc 145. How many sq ft is the home? What type of heat emitter?
 
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Old 02-18-16, 11:05 AM
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Sorry for delayed response. My pump is still going. The temps are from the T Stat, digital readout. (Honeywell as I recall). Home is about 2300 sq. Heat emitter is baseboard. The images are older and it may say zero on the boiler. I checked zones last night and zone three pipe was HOT to the touch, as expected. Zone 1 and 2 were cold to the touch. I do have a zone valve issue in that the basement zone opens at times when the other two zones are turned on. I checked them a year or two ago and rebuild leaky ones with new o rings and gaskets. I think zone valves are in reasonable shape (not great but working). Each time I check the pipes they are hot/cold as expected. Other than the basement that is hot once in a while.

I can hear the pump making a spinning noise when in the basement near it. I can hear "ting" type noise from the baseboards. I think this is the water circulating or air being pushed. My theory is that if water is getting out, air can be getting in. The pump is in poor shape, and air is in the system making the temp not come up very quickly. Does this sound likely?

Also.. is cleaning the burners on this a DIY type job or best left to pros? I don't mind some hard(ish) work and elbow grease. I think that will help as well.

Thanks lots to all of you who responded so far.
 
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Old 02-21-16, 07:53 AM
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One word I cannot find in this thread is vent or venting which is one of the basic things to check on any hydronic system. Vents can be many places on systems. There should be a vent at the high point of each zone.

The photo shows an automatic vent next to the pressure regulator/safety valve on a tee off the top of the boiler. That is not the optimum place for a vent. It should be located higher, and on a pipe carrying flow to heating units

DIY cleaning is OK. Start with a visual internal inspection after taking the exhaust stack off. It is usually easy to brush off the surfaces and vacuum out the loose stuff. To pull out the gas burner assembly is another issue.

If you have an oven thermometer or something that can measure 400F, take before an after readings. There is usually a 1/4" hole in the stack for that.

The difference in temps can be surprising, especially on hot water heaters. Lower stack temps mean higher efficiency.

I use stack temp on an oil burner as an indicator of when to clean.
 

Last edited by doughess; 02-21-16 at 08:08 AM.
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