Kerr Saturn - Riello 40 F5 Acting Odd

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Old 03-02-16, 05:58 PM
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Kerr Saturn - Riello 40 F5 Acting Odd

Kerr Saturn Hydronic Boiler. Riello 40 F5. 3 zones in the house (one very old one).
Furnace has been acting up. It worked well for the past 3 years.
One day I noticed it was extinguishing partway through a cycle. It immediately reignites itself and continues on. The pump/fan motor never stops when this occurs, only the flame. Sometimes it would do this 4 or 5 times during a cycle (call for heat). I do not know how long it had been since it was serviced before i bought the house but needless to say it had gone at least 3 years without a service (I know, I am a moron). I am mechanically inclined with automotive, have tools out the wazoo, and also program computers by trade. I always DIY everything for the most part.

This seems to happen only when it is windy outside.

I have done the following:
replaced the spin on filter. Replaced the nozzle.
checked the chimney (totally clear).
Dipped the tank with kolor kut - no water.
Pulled the breach and cleaned out the tubes (had a lot of scale, but no soot).
pulled the burner (chamber has zero soot... just scale from falling down from the tubes during brushing). cleaned that up.
pulled pump side cover and pump screen was clear).
Checked cad cell with multimeter (it was very clean too, no soot at all).

flame appears to be quite lean (looking through the sight hole i can only see the sharp tips of the bright flame below). However air settings were not touched.

the windy days really make it act up. My theory at this point is that it is fuel related, and maybe it is not getting enough fuel for some odd reason which is making the mixture lean?

It seems noisier than normal and the sight hole flap smacks back and forth like there is a negative to positive pressure in the firebox sucking and pushing against the flap.

Just changed the spin on filter again today in desperation.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.

PS one of the zones thermostats is unhooked as the zone valve was making a sizzling noise (partially closed) so I unhooked the thermostat going to it.
 
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Old 03-02-16, 06:34 PM
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Could a weak motor cause the pump to spin slower and make the mixture lean out? then the draft from the wind suck the flame out?
 
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Old 03-03-16, 07:25 AM
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If after 3 years you have no soot and only scale, your running lean. Turn back the air a little bit. You should have a nice bright yellow flame with good peaks.
 
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Old 03-03-16, 06:59 PM
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would testing the pump pressure tell me if i am running lean from low fuel pressure, vs too much air on the air setting?

can that make it randomly extinguish?
 
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Old 03-03-16, 07:02 PM
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also oddly enough... seems to correct itself if I kill the power for a bit.
last night i tried another primary control on it, and it worked fine for the remainder of the night and then tonight started acting up again.
This is driving me crazy.
 
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Old 03-03-16, 09:19 PM
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adjusting the air back did help but i do not understand why all of a sudden the furnace would require less air than it had needed for the past 3 years.

It started cutting in and out bad, like every 2 or 3 seconds it would extinguish and reignite. while it was doing this I adjusted the air back to 1.5 before it would run without going out. it was set on 2.5 originally and had run on 2.5 for at least the past 3 years. no idea why it would all of a sudden need way less air? maybe it is pushing less fuel for some reason causing it to need less air?
 
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Old 03-03-16, 09:28 PM
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You never said how your oil line is laid out. One pipe,two,off the bottom of tank,from top.Location of tank,inside,out. Did you have the cover on the burner when you looked at the fire?
 
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Old 03-03-16, 09:47 PM
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tank is inside in the basement by the furnace. line comes off the bottom of the tank (about 1-2" from the bottom actually).
had the cover on and off looking at the fire. seemed to make no difference to be honest.
 
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Old 03-03-16, 10:05 PM
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If it's a older line they can get tight and even plug up. If most of the oil in the tank is above the burner you can shut of the oil valve (burner switch too) take off the pump cover,then open the oil valve with cover off.Make sure you have a pan under it. Oil should flow freely thru a hole in the body of the pump. Gravity. This is the o.v. at the burner I am taking about.
 
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Old 03-04-16, 05:34 AM
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It does flow freely when I bleed the pump, with the pump on or off I can crack the bleed valve and it flows from there pretty fast. With the motor off It will flow enough to produce a steady stream. with the motor on it will fill my 1.5L tray pretty fast (15-20 seconds).
 
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Old 03-04-16, 06:48 AM
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I know you said you replaced the nozzle, but it's not unheard of to find a problem with a new one. Maybe try another? They're cheap enough. Steve
 
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Old 03-04-16, 09:45 AM
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Finally gave up and called a tech in.
Pump was shot. He replaced the pump. inner seal was gone on it. when he pulled it off there was fuel between the pump and motor. I wonder why this never leaked out? and if it never leaked out, i wonder why it would have caused lower fuel pressure? the pressure must have bled off somewhere.
200 for pump, plus 1 hour labor.
 
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Old 03-05-16, 09:17 AM
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Pump must have been sucking air. This is why it seemed to help when I bled it. I said earlier powering it off seemed to help it, but now I realize that was because I also bled it each time. the seal must have been oozing oil out between calls for heat, then sucking most of it back in when running, along with air which must be why it never leaked out somewhere visible. back to air setting of 2.5, and 85% efficiency
 
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Old 03-05-16, 09:28 AM
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Glad you got it fixed.Riello parts are pricey but nothing beats peace of mind and a warm house.
 
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