B&G series 100 pump: possible leak ?

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Old 10-10-16, 08:23 AM
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B&G series 100 pump: possible leak ?

Subject was supposed to say possible leak. Apparently cannot edit it.

Last winter my pump went dry and bearings started screeching. I meant to dig into this summer but due to health issues could not. I did check the oil level and found it was low. Added oil spilled a bunch. Looked today four days later and the level is down again. My question is how full should the reservoir be on those units. I can't see oil when I remove the rectangular cap that you fill through. Did I overfill last time and this is normal? I do see oil on the floor but could be due to spilling. Thanks.
 
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Old 10-10-16, 08:55 AM
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Just a few drops of 30W oil is all you need. Too much is just as bad as not enough. If overfilled it will leak out.
 
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Old 10-10-16, 08:59 AM
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Image attached. You can't see any oil in the reservoir. I think it's leaking below acceptable level. Anyone confirm this? Thanks.


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  #4  
Old 10-10-16, 09:06 AM
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That is you bearing assembly and you will not see oil in the reservoir. If overfilled it WILL leak out the bottom. Remember, just a few drops. If it is leaking from overfill it will eventually stop.
 
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Old 10-10-16, 02:48 PM
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This is the original thread: http://www.doityourself.com/forum/bo...g-lot-oil.html Notice that I detailed how the bearing is oiled on that pump.

Note also that all three respondents recommending swapping that B&G pump with a newer "wet rotor" pump: myself and Lawrosa recommending the Taco F-7 and doughess recommending a high-tech variable speed pump.

In my opinion you are sending good money after bad futzing with that B&G pump. Then again, it IS your money.
 
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Old 10-10-16, 03:15 PM
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Thanks furd for the post. Sadly I have health issues preventing me from replacing and financial issue hiring someone. Not much choice. I figured I would oil and hope to get through another winter. Thanks for your info.
 
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Old 10-10-16, 03:25 PM
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Whatever pump you replace it with, I recommend that you add ball valves in the pump suction and discharge lines - so you can isolate the pump for maintenance without draining the system. Maybe you already have valves? I can't tell from the photo.

If you have been satisfied with the system performance of the B&G 100, select the replacement pump to have a similar head-flow characteristic curve. Or, just go with a Taco 007 - they are inexpensive and >90% of the time, will work fine. They require no lubrication, but might be a bit noisier than the B&G pump - the B&G motor has four poles, and the Taco has two, so the Taco runs at twice the rpm.

Good luck.
 
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Old 10-10-16, 04:07 PM
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Dan, I understand your predicament as I also have significant health problems and there are few among us that don't also have financial problems. Nonetheless, your pump problem will not get any better and you are just delaying the inevitable. Better to bite the bullet and replace the pump now when it is not an emergency situation than to have to do it when the snow is flying, the streets are icy and the temperature is in the teens.

Gil's suggestion to add isolation valves is a good one but will almost certainly require the services of a pipe fitter and the costs will be at least double the cost of the pump alone. Last I checked the cost of the Taco pump is less than $100. and it is a direct replacement for the B&G 100.
 
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Old 10-11-16, 12:28 PM
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Save money and electricty with new technology ECM pump motor

I used to put a pan under my B&G 100 and filled it with oil until it leaked.

When the B&G 100 died last year and I replaced it for $130 less than a new B&G with a Grundfos Alpha.

The Alpha has an ECM motor which uses up to 85% less electricity. The AutoAdapt feature self adjusts to varying load/zone conditions.

Grundfos 59896877 - ALPHA 15-55 F Cast Iron Circulator Pump w/ Terminal Box

Bell & Gossett 106189 - 1/12 HP, Series 100 NFI Circulator Pump
 

Last edited by PJmax; 10-11-16 at 01:53 PM. Reason: fixed links
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Old 10-11-16, 03:48 PM
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Last week I though it too late to rip into this as winter is coming. The more I look though the easier this appears and I think I can do it now. I'm leaning toward taco 007 but am doing calcculations for head and such. Taco gives the following. F = q/500* (delta T) and gives an example of f= 100000/500*20. My boiler is about 100000. Not using glycol so 500 works. Delta T is what I'm having issue with. How to calculate this? Or is 20 very safe to use?? Also does this all sound correct?

Then I will use Hl = k*c*L*f(1.75) . Not sure how to measure total distance L with any exactness.
 
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Old 10-11-16, 04:04 PM
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Dan, I think you are making too much out of this. If the B&G 100 worked OK, so will the Taco 007.
 
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Old 10-12-16, 08:01 AM
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The TACO 007 has less capacity than a B&G 100 series and may not be adequate for some situations. The Grundfos Alpha has higher capacity than 007's and the "AutoAdapt" feature adjusts pump to actual load. The flanges are even the same height so there is no plumbing changes.

There is no need to do calculations when replacing a B&G 100 with an Alpha because the characteristics are adjustable it can be tweaked for different situations.

If you are using zone valves with end switches the Alpha can be left powered on and will automatically adjust flow as they open or close.

If the AutoAdapt is not wanted there are 6 settings for fixed flow or pressure. A digital display shows actual pump conditions. That is a lot better than using an amp meter to determine pump motor load.

Taco and others also make ECM circulators. For energy savings and features it is the way to go. Two years ago Taco bought an Italian ECM pump company to expand their product line.
 

Last edited by doughess; 10-12-16 at 08:16 AM.
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Old 10-12-16, 08:17 PM
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I got the old unit out tonight after a bit of work. It says Armstrong on the side with a b&g plate. Anyways I am not able to remove the upper flange. I think it's rusted on. It looks pretty beat up and I'm planning to replace it. Any hints on removal? I sprayed it down with wd40. Hopefully break loose tomorrow.
 
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Old 10-13-16, 04:47 AM
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In my experience, WD-40 isn't a very good product for this. Kroil or PB Blaster are my favorites. Heat will help many times, but you may be looking at a hacksaw job. Or maybe a cutting wheel on an angle grinder. Don't give up! Steve
 
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Old 10-13-16, 02:29 PM
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Why not just leave the stuck flange and connect the replacement pump to it?

If you really need to remove the flange, use two large pipe wrenches torqueing in opposite directions. 24" wrenches will do it, maybe 18". Spraying anything like PB Blaster won't work in my experience - it won't soak into the threaded connection. This is something that usually comes up when trying to disconnect old threaded joints. Beg, borrow, or steal a pair of wrenches.

Cutting the pipe is not a real good idea - you will then have to remove the next section of pipe (and it may be stuck too) and replace it with a threaded nipple of the correct length.
 
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Old 10-13-16, 07:16 PM
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Thanks everyone so far. I read a post that said Armstrong flanges and taco pumps don't mix. Not real sure I have Armstrong flange. I'm going to leave it though. It's a royal pain in the backside getting that thing off.

Two things.

1) I picked up the taco pump and it has two o rings. Do I also need the additional gaskets to put between the flange and the pump mounts? Seems I do.

2) I removed the "elbow" from back of the hydrotherm boiler. This is the piece water exits the boiler and journeys upward to the pump. I'm not real sure I can find a proper gasket to replace it. My local supply house basically told me to go away when I asked about this. They are hydrotherm dealers..
I'm planning to get high temp red permatex and make a gasket. Good idea? Bad idea? I have a bucket of furnace cement I used to seal up the exhaust pipe coming from the boiler. This does not seem like a good idea to use this. But not certain?

Thanks..
 
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Old 10-14-16, 07:45 AM
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Gaskets

Is this what you are talking about? https://www.zoro.com/taco-flange-gas...Q&gclsrc=aw.ds

One gasket goes in the groove of each flange that is part of the pump.

There is a single O-ring that goes between the cartridge and the pump. That should have been pre-installed in the new pump.
 
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Old 10-14-16, 08:16 AM
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Not quite. The rubber O rings came with the taco pump and I know these go in the grove on in the pump. But... I think I also need the below so its not metal flange on metal pump when I bolt it up??? ALso the Red permatex is OK for gasket recreation?? No way I am finding this hydrotherm gasket.

Rubber Gaskets (2-Pack)-BP396 - The Home Depot
 

Last edited by Dan.NY; 10-14-16 at 08:24 AM. Reason: Add info
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Old 10-14-16, 08:32 AM
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No - the gaskets that fit into the grooves are all that is needed. The flange faces don't touch each other, so the Home Depot gaskets wouldn't even be compressed.
 
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Old 10-14-16, 12:09 PM
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Also the Red Permatex is OK for gasket recreation?? No way I am finding this hydrotherm gasket.
Yes, that will work. Maybe others here can recommend other products as well.
 
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Old 10-14-16, 06:48 PM
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I got the old unit out tonight after a bit of work. It says Armstrong on the side with a b&g plate.
I'm not sure of this, but somehow I had thought that Armstrong perhaps had some kind of licensing agreement with B&G to manufacture pumps in Canada. I seem to recall seeing pictures of Armstrong pumps that were dead ringers for B&G models - same red color, even.
 
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Old 10-15-16, 04:46 AM
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I'm in good shape but have questions. Everything is bolted up. Interestingly enough I had a hunch those red/orange taco gaskets would be the same size as the flange for the hydrotherm elbow. I was right. Same size yes but not a perfect match. I added Some of the red permatex to fill in behind the gasket where it was sunken and the gasket would likely not seal. Now I need to refill the system and purge air. I know some pumps running dry is a death sentence. Do I need to prime and if so how??

I'm going to be pumping air seems like. what steps are needed to refill?? Thanks thanks thanks everyone.
 
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Old 10-15-16, 12:44 PM
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Fill the system and get it pressurized. Remove trapped air by opening any air bleeders or high-point vents, one at a time.
 
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Old 10-17-16, 04:43 PM
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Good news and bad news. Everything is bolted, pressurized and looks in good order. I do not see a leak. The bad news is I can't get my hydrotherm to light up. Pilot will not light. Im not at all sure where to start on this issue. I do hear the gas when I depress the control knob and put it on pilot. I don't hear a click though. Totally dead. Not at all sure where to start on this. Anyone have some ideas ??
 
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Old 10-17-16, 05:04 PM
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Dan, do you have a standing pilot, one you have to light manually or electronic ignition. You won't hear anything until the pilot comes on.
 
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Old 10-17-16, 07:26 PM
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Electronic. Never had to light it. I'm thinking I knocked a wire loose somewhere. I did have to take the back panel off, where there are two wires attached. I visually looked at them and they do not look loose. I am wondering what voltage is there and if that is a good place to start. I don't have the electric figured out in this by any means.

Edit: the noise I'm expecting is click click of an igniter firing.
 
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Old 10-18-16, 07:02 AM
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The red three hole neoprene gaskets are better on old rusted flanges than square round ring types. They fit both Taco 007's and B&G 100's. See:

Flange and Gasket Set for B&G Boiler Pumps-BP-393 - The Home Depot
 
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Old 10-18-16, 08:37 AM
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Snapped a few jpegs this morning. This is what my setup is. Really not sure where/what to check on this. I do hear the gas hissing when I turn the control knob to pilot. Its just not being ignited seems like. Something here should be 750 mili volts?

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Old 10-18-16, 06:08 PM
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I need to correct a post. I actually have a standing flame. Not electronic. I have been trying to read up on all this and get it figured out. Measured across leads of thermopile but read zero volts. I'm not sure this is normal or not. if thermopile only generates current when the pilot is on then this,is normal??? What actually kicks a spark to light the pilot? I'm floundering here.. any help is appreciated. Thanks.
 
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Old 10-19-16, 07:08 AM
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What actually kicks a spark to light the pilot?
You have to light the pilot with a match or fireplace lighter while holding down the button. Keep pressing the button for a minute or two to let the thermocouple heat up.
 
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Old 10-19-16, 07:27 AM
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Last edited by doughess; 10-19-16 at 08:27 AM.
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