2 zones not working, 3rd won't reach temp

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Old 12-15-16, 05:46 AM
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2 zones not working, 3rd won't reach temp

Hi all, having an issue with my heating system.

It is a Teledyne Lars boiler, 3 zones.
zone 1 - 1st floor except den.
zone 2 - 2nd floor
zone 3 - den and basement.

Zone 1 works, but since zone 2 and 3 went out it has a hard time reaching temp. The boiler won't stay on long enough.

Zone 2 went first. I noticed the upstairs was cold, and no matter what I did the baseboards wouldn't get hot.
Last year I had an issue for one day where the heat wouldn't turn off in that zone, and it got to 80 on the 2nd floor. The next day it was normal again, and I forgot all about it.
Now, it's completely dead.

Zone 3 died last night.

Before zone 3 died, I had no problem reaching temp in zone 1.

Now, I am about 3 degrees below set temp.

So, I checked the boiler out.

Zone 2, the zone valve seems stuck. If I go to move the lever ll the way to the right (open) it won't go. It stops halfway (the other 2 identical zone valves move all the way to the right)

If I hold it there, I can hear water start to flow. If I push REALLY hard, it will slowly move all the way to the right, and water flows freely. But as soon as I let go, it slowly moves itself back to the middle position and water flow stops.

Zone 3, the zone valve makes a constant buzzing noise. If I move the lever all the way to the right, it moves freely, it stays in place, and I can hear great water flow. The pipes even get hot. It still buzzes constantly.

The only way the buzzing stops, is if I turn off the heat in that zone. As soon as I turn the thermostat back on, it buzzes again.

So........am I right in thinking that both zone valves are shot and need replacement?

Simple, and not too costly. The valves are sweat on, not screwed, so that makes it a bit more difficult, but I can do it.

Anything I may have missed? Or anything else to look at?

And lastly, and I know that this may be a dumb question, but any way I can work on zones 2 and 3 and NOT shut the boiler off, and still have zone 1 running? It's 10 degrees out. I have kids.

Oh, and do I NEED to replace the faulty zone valves (if that's what the problem is) with identical valves? Or can I shop around? If so, any recommendations on a great valve from Home Depot/Lowes? (or reasonably obtained elsewhere?)

Thanks for any pointers or any help.

EDIT: Just realized that I could probably just change the actuator. Easy peasy. But I am still concerned about the zone 2 valve, and they way it physically gets stuck opening the valve via lever, and they way it, once open, slowly reverts back to closed. I may have to do the entire valve on that one. They appear to be the box type Honeywell valves.
 
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Old 12-15-16, 06:50 AM
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You may want to try swapping the actuator from the one that is mechanically stuck to the one buzzing. It may not work, but it may get the buzzing zone working if the other actuator is working.

Several levels of rebuild are possible on the Honeywell valves depending on exact type, so post the model number for more info.

There is nothing wrong with leaving the manual override in the on position on the one where it will stay to get heat to that zone.
 
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Old 12-15-16, 09:52 AM
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And lastly, and I know that this may be a dumb question, but any way I can work on zones 2 and 3 and NOT shut the boiler off, and still have zone 1 running? It's 10 degrees out. I have kids.
Very doubtful..... unless you have many shut off valves in your system.
A few pictures of your setup will help us to help you. http://www.doityourself.com/forum/el...-pictures.html
 
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Old 12-15-16, 11:38 AM
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Thanks, guys.
Currently I cannot post a pic, as I do not own a camera.

Regardless, they are Honeywell 8043e zone valves.

So I went and bought 2 new actuator heads. 8043e, from lowes. 60 bucks a piece.

But now I have another problem.

I followed the instructions that came with it. I also followed the instructions of many many online videos, as well as write ups and replies right here in this very forum.

But they're not working.

I did this:

1. Turn boiler off both at switch and at the breaker.
2. Set zone valve to manually open position. (all the way to the right)
3. Disconnect zone valve wires.
4. Unscrew the 2 screws 1 on either side, and lift off.

Step 4 is the problem. I can't get the screws out. Every time I try to looses them up, high pressure hot water shoots out from between the head and the valve. All over the basement. I burned my entire chest tightening them back up.

All of the instructions and videos say that the system does NOT need to be drained. Everything says just unscrew and lift off. Ummm....then why is all the water pouring out?

Yes, I am 100% sure that the lever is in the open position. I am also sure that is IS open, as with the boiler on, if I set it to open you can hear water flow. If I close it, it stops. So what am I missing here?

EDIT: In lieu of pics, I can describe: water exits the boiler single pipe, goes to a manifold with 3 8043 zone valves on it. Each zone valve feeds a zone. 3 returns tot he system.

Very simple. No rats nest, no complicated piping. Very simple.
 
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Old 12-15-16, 01:18 PM
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I think you are trying to remove too much.

Follow instructions here:

https://customer.honeywell.com/resou.../95C-10932.pdf

starting at "to remove the actuator from the valve body" on page three.

There is a spring release for the actuator...no screws.
 
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Old 12-15-16, 02:39 PM
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It depends how old your zone valves are. Original Honeywell zone vales had to have the system drained to change the heads. The newer ones do not. If you have the newer model you will have 4 screws on top with 2 different heads. 1 set is recessed the other set is domed. if you have the old style you must buy a conversion kit to update the valve.

Hope this helps.
 
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Old 12-15-16, 03:16 PM
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Aaaaand I think you might be right.

I think it was older valves, and the kit was already used.
It appears that the powerhead sits on a metal plate, which attaches via 4 screws in a screw pattern to the valve itself. There is a rubber gasket between the powerhead and metal plate.

The valve is not the larger, with the directional arrow on the side, it is smaller with the arrow underneath.
All pics I can find of the larger do NOT have this plate between them.

I will try to borrow a camera and see what I can do. I'm gonna make a few calls. But in the meantime, I do think I have the older valves. No way I can release the head without unscrewing those screws.

And it stinks, because if so, that means I have to drain the system.

The house was built in 1986, and the entire system is original, if that helps any.

Nothing more I can do tonight, so I am just leaving the valves open all night to get some hot water flowing into the baseboards so my kids don't freeze.
 
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Old 12-15-16, 03:26 PM
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Z,
If you have a zone that's working you can use that tstat to control the system while leaving the other ZV's open. When 1 zone calls for heat they will all heat and when that tstat is satisfied it will shut it down. Simply put you will have a single zone system but working.

As I stated before, see if you have 2 different head styles on the screws holding the head on to the body. If all 4 are the same it's the old style.
 
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Old 01-07-17, 08:02 PM
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I know it's been a couple of weeks or so, but I wanted to give you guys an update.

I do have the older style. Which means a complete drain to do the service.

Being that's it's 10 degrees out or so, I can't do that right now. So I have been running it as a single zone system. And it has worked beautifully as one. Ina few weeks, when the temps rise, I'll do the service. i already have the 2 valves ready to go.

Thanks for the help, guys. I appreciate it.
 
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Old 01-07-17, 08:06 PM
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We do appreciate being updated and we'll be here if you need further help too.

Basically... this is your thread so feel free to jump back in at any time.
 
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