Oil Burner/Boiler Replacment Choices? EK Sys 2000 or Peerless Cast iron

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  #1  
Old 01-06-17, 02:07 PM
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Oil Burner/Boiler Replacment Choices? EK Sys 2000 or Peerless Cast iron

Hi,

Looking to replace heating sys in my 93 year old parents' brick, 2100 sq ft 1968 ranch house. Std. fiber glass insulation and plaster walls, single pane windows with storms. Weill McLain boiler and burner are 5o years old which ran fine till I had the 1725 rpm pump, motor, and universal igniter replaced. And I have a connected external hot water tank...just for storage. I guess its connected to the HW coil of the boiler. After sinking about $16oo for the new parts (long story of domino effect problems), gone thru 2 igniters in 2 weeks, techs had been saying we really should have replaced the boiler sooner and the third and last tech who got it running said he probably would have refused to work on it in the first place.

Anyway one company will quote me both the System 2000 and a Peerless cast iron boiler and indirect HW tank. The other third tech said he would not charge me for the repair call if I give him the new system job. He also likes Peerless, said they would save quite a bit of money because it didn't have to maintain the boiler at 200 degrees like the old system did (to maintain the hot water?). He said stay away from the sys 2000 because its sheet metal and only lasts about ten years. The Other company tech says the S2000s he installed 30 years ago are still going strong.

I guess the system 2000 is supposed to be 40% more efficient because it is not burning much oil in idle time when only hot water is needed and continues to extract heat from the boiler after it shuts down.

Since I'm not sure my aged parents will be able to stay in the house too much longer and we are looking at the possibility of selling the house within 5 years, which of these or other systems do you recommend. We will also need to get the 1000 gallon oil tank out of the ground. The "Peerless favoring" tech said it would cost more or less $8000. I think the other company will probably come in somewhere at $9-11k for the S2000 & Peerless. What are fair prices for a complete new system including indirect tank, new circulators (2 zones), expansion tank , necessary venting, etc.

Or since I have all of the moving parts of the old burner replaced now can I count on this to be reliable for a while or will the igniters keep failing.

Thanks
Mike
 
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  #2  
Old 01-06-17, 03:03 PM
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Mike, 40 yrs. in the business and I never heard of anyone replacing a boiler because of ignitors. If new ignitors were put in, there was a reason why they had to replaced 2 weeks later. They are only porcelain insulators housing a metal rod that sends current to ignite the oil from the nozzle. My guess is they didn't put them in right or were the wrong ones and you paid for their mistake.

If a boiler isn't leaking and you are not overly concerned about better efficiency everything else can be fixed.

As far as a universal ignitor goes somebody is blowing smoke, there is no such thing. They make about maybe 30 or more ignitors and that's on the conservative side and each one has it's purpose and is made for a specific burner. There actually is catalogue just for them if one takes the time to look and find the right one for the burner.

If in fact as your burner is 50 years old and might be time for an upgrade or your ignitors are no longer available you can just replace just the burner for a fraction of the cost.

I'm not saying that after 50 years it might not be time but my point is don't let anyone push you into anything by saying he will not work on it. They just want to sell you something. You do have options.

As far a boiler choice I can only tell you that many years ago when these first came to light I was contacted about becoming a distributor, they were looking for someone in the area. They were very small and actually had to be mounted on blocks. They were a steel boiler and quite expensive for the time compared to other brands.

Something you may want to check is the venting of the 2000 into your existing chimney. It may be too large for proper venting since the flue gases of the 2000 are cooler due to the boiler design. They may want you to line your chimney for proper venting, an added expense.

I didn't get involved, first, I thought the price was way out of line and second, I'm not a fan of steel boilers and will not use them. I like cast iron and Peerless is a good name so I'm not the one to make a recommendation having never done anything with the 2000.

Hope this helps a little.
 

Last edited by spott; 01-06-17 at 03:31 PM.
  #3  
Old 01-06-17, 05:02 PM
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Thanks,
biggest concern seemed unavailability of parts. first of three techs had to drive 30-40 mins to get a 1725 rpm motor. I personably think I can find everything on the internet but with one or two day turnaround and staying without heat. As I said it was a long story and u are right I paid for incompetence and mistakes as these techs were just parts replacers and not really diagnosing why the original motor was tripping the reset button and why the new igniters subsequently failed. The igniter used is listed on the internet by Allanson as "universal" (2275U). I think the burner is made by Wayne and seemed the true igniter could not be found locally and hence the "universal."

1st tech said I could just replace the burner but was concerned if any of the controls then failed after so many years and we get stuck with trying to find replacements in dead of winter or the boiler failed after so many years. Then of course the whole efficiency thing and should I upgrade everything to make the house saleable.

igniter sees simple to replace with just two wires. These guys charge so much more than internet prices citing sometimes that they weren't even marking them up from what the supply house charged, like a $240 motor that I think goes for about 100 bucks on the internet (48n 1725 rpm).

After replacing the pump, motor, igniter sees I now have a new burner...more or less...if the igniter is solved. Should I be searching for the exact igniter replacement? and would you think I need to upgrade the whole system due to efficiency and age if I may need to sell the house in the next few years?
 
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Old 01-06-17, 06:23 PM
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Mike,
First off when you said ignitor I thought you were talking about electrodes which are called ignitors. What was actually replaced was your transformer and they do make so called universals but are easily adaptable to your burner and the are only 2 wires and they are not even hot and common so it doesn't matter which wire went to what in your case. The new ones today are different only that they are color coded but about 1/2 hour to change at most with testing. The next thing you mentioned was the 1725 burner motor. It shouldn't have been that hard to find and a competent company usually stocks at least one on the truck even though they are not that common anymore they are still out there. You're paying because he doesn't want to carry inventory. That's becoming a problem everywhere. Then you mentioned the pump which is also 1725 RPM.

I cannot imagine why you had to change all these parts but I'm guessing he couldn't find the problem and was a parts changer.

Your burner consist of a motor, pump, transformer, all of which you replaced and a burner assembly which is the nozzle and electrode assembly and possibly a primary control unless it's tied into your aquastat.

You basically have a new burner but with outdated parts.

If you would have bought a new Beckett burner for example you would have gotten it with a 3450 motor and a 3450 pump and a 17,000V transformer instead of the 10,000V replacement transformer.

The burner would have been a modern burner with readily available parts and a 3 yr. warranty from Beckett and been much more efficient than the old one even with new parts and I don't know how they price things out there but it should have been a lot less than 1600.00. Even if it cost the same you would have come into the 21st century. They did you no favors and you might want to look for a competent company.

Not knowing what you have for controls it's hard to comment but I've never run across anything that couldn't be replaced if you know your craft and they are suppose to be professionals. Most controls basically function the same as the old ones, they are just going electronic but all can be used to operate your boiler.

My Weil McLain is 34 yrs. old and parts are readily available.

In conclusion they should have explained the benefits of installing a new burner at least instead of putting you through this torture.
 
  #5  
Old 01-06-17, 07:44 PM
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Funny about the igniter. The first tech kept on correcting me when I call it the transformer. He's an older gentleman of about 70. He actually stocks a lot of parts in this truck just didn't have this one. He was an independent and didn't work for an oil company. And the parts failed individually over several days starting with the motor. Then the transformer failed and he replaced it with the universal. He was on vacation when the replacement failed and finally we now have a third transformer He said the fuel pump was not really holding its pressure under a pressure test so I think in the end he finally changed everything to try to avoid further problems but I don't think anybody ever really got right why the Transformers are failing. I tend to think it's something in the wiring after the new Motor was wired. The last tech actually added a screw to ground the transformer because it was sparking he also said the new Transformers are designed to cut out after ignition and maybe, maybe the continuous ignition might've burned it out. He wasn't sure.
we certainly discussed putting in a whole new burner but that was before we knew all three major components we're going to fail or be marginal. I thought I could get away with just the motor and get through the winter. 2020 hindsight I would definitely just to put in a whole new burner and be in the 21st-century. But I agree with you on all points and that It's a major problem with these guys don't want to carry inventory. Once I had to pay half an hour of travel just for the guy to go get a nozzle. And the pricing of the parts seems ridiculous. I've changed out my own motors transformers and fuel pumps before it's not hard. But I just didn't have the time to do it for my parents. in hindsight I would have been ahead doing it myself and ordering parts over three days at a fraction of the cost
 
  #6  
Old 01-07-17, 11:28 PM
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what about just finding a used beckett burner and swapping it out? you'd probably be looking at about 300/400 or so for the burner, and another 100-150 to have a tech tune it to that boiler...

unless you're planning to keep the house for 20 years, i can't imagine spending the 10k or whatever it is for an energy kinetics system...


EDIT:
example:
http://hartford.craigslist.org/app/5905988088.html
http://hartford.craigslist.org/app/5931624425.html

looks like 150 for the burner actually... what size (MBH) is the weil mcclain?


Any time a tech says he won't charge for the repair if you let him do the install of a replacement i'd be suspect...
 
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Old 01-08-17, 05:51 PM
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Send PM to the member in reference to what you have.
 

Last edited by PJmax; 01-08-17 at 06:43 PM. Reason: removed items for sale
  #8  
Old 01-09-17, 06:47 AM
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System 2000

The System 2000 is made of high quality, domestic steel, not sheet metal. They carry a lifetime limited warranty that the manufacturer stands behind.

Since the warranty can be transferred to a new owner within the first five years of installation, it would be a great selling point.

For more info on the system visit Gas Boilers | Hot Water Systems | High Efficiency Oil Boiler
 
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Old 01-12-17, 05:56 PM
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Has EK's warranty changed? It used to be a pro-rated warranty down to something like 50% after 10 or 20 years. Is it now a full warranty?
 
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