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Spiro-Vent Placement


Chacho's Avatar
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11-12-17, 10:57 AM   #1 (permalink)  
Spiro-Vent Placement

Hey guys (& gals), writing on an issue that I haven't ever really seemed to get right. I cannot seem to get my boiler to run quiet (within reason, not expecting complete silence). I have tried replacing my air eliminators, running cleaners, and resorted to flushing the system (when I had other work that required flushing). I have not been super impressed with the technicians that have come in to work on the system and/or provide advice. Some have even recommended replacing the boiler. I wanted a clean and inspect done this year, so I asked a tech to come in for this service. The tech at least checked some basic items which others had not, gas pressure, ppm in the exhaust, etc., which gave me some faith in this guy. After hearing the boiler run, he recommended installing a spiro-vent air eliminator. I do hear a lot of micro-bubbles when the garage loop opens, the main house loop mainly pings and pops from the boiler (not pipe expansion). I would also add that the expansion tank is charged properly. I monitor this yearly.

So, I feel like air could be the issue or at least an item I would be willing to eliminate by installing the spiro-vent. I am kind of in a lose/lose situation on the installation though. The installation instructions say to put the vent on the low pressure side of the pump but on the hot side of the boiler. Looking at my system, you can see this cannot be done. The tech recommended putting the spiro-vent on the low pressure side of the pump on cold side of the boiler. The tech did a couple things that made me lose faith a little. He tested the expansion tank without taking the pressure off. He also assessed sediment in the boiler by draining about a cup of water out and looking at it. This led to me to look for another recommendation on the spiro-vent placement. I asked supplyhouse product support what they would recommmend. They suggested the hot side of the boiler. Now I have conflicting information and I guess I am looking or a third opinion. The support on this site is second to none, so I thought I would reach out here for an opinion. Should the spiro-vent go where the blue arrow is or where the red arrow is?

BTW - the tech wanted over $500 to install the spiro-vent, which seems outlandish to me. I can do the work, just not confident on the placement.

Also, am I just putting lipstick on a pig here? Do I need to consider replumbing this whole system with the pump on the hot side in a pump away configuration? (In the spring of course!) I can handle a tough reality here.

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Last edited by PJmax; 11-12-17 at 02:00 PM. Reason: Inserted photos as attachments directly in post
 
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spott's Avatar
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11-12-17, 11:11 AM   #2 (permalink)  
C,
You want to put your Spirovent on the supply side (RED) of the boiler. You want to remove the air before it gets to the system units. You have a perfect spot after the elbow on the horizontal pipe.

With a regular air scoop you should be 18" form an elbow but with the Spirovent it doesn't matter. It can be mounted anywhere horizontally without distance requirements.

They do make a big difference with stubborn air removal.

Hope this helps a little.

 
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11-12-17, 12:10 PM   #3 (permalink)  
I don't see your pictures. I see the links to google image store site but I can't see them here on the board. Maybe they're set to private and not public. I'll need to remove the dead links. You can post your pictures directly to the board.
How-to-insert-pictures


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11-12-17, 12:34 PM   #4 (permalink)  
Thanks PJmax. I also added the photos as attachments directly in the post.

Just learned google photo links will show if you use Google Chrome but not Internet Explorer. Can't we all just get along?

 
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11-12-17, 01:28 PM   #5 (permalink)  
I use three different browsers here. I was signed into Chrome and they still weren't visible.
All is good now.


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11-12-17, 01:47 PM   #6 (permalink)  
I wouldn't waste your time on a spiro vent... What you have is fine... If you keep flushing , or opening the system and adding fresh water then you are adding air to the system...

Its most likely not the boilers fault... Stop messing with it...

That one air vent is fine IMO and I install these boilers all the time. Its a built in scoop in the boiler.

I assume you have those vent caps loose?

When I install I also add a vent at the return ell. This is where you will get most air out..

Add an AAV to the ell above your blue arrow. The one after the zone valve...



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11-12-17, 01:49 PM   #7 (permalink)  
Also whats the cold psi of the boiler... To compress the air to get it out better raise the psi some... 15-18 psi cold....

Your problems will go away...


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11-12-17, 01:52 PM   #8 (permalink)  
Just a note I have been installing boilers 30 years. I never use scoops or air scrubbers. Just two bottle vents is all.. Ive never had air issues..

Scrubbers do have thier place in some applications though over regular scoops...


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11-12-17, 02:36 PM   #9 (permalink)  
Lawrosa,

Thanks for the quick reply. My vent caps are open. My cold PSI is 12. If I were to raise this to 15-18, would I also need to increase the pressure in the expansion tank to match? (also at 12 psi currently)


For the placement of the Automatic Air Vent, are you suggesting it goes where I show the green arrow? Will this capture return air for the "house" zone (bottom zone valve) or primarily capture air for the "garage" zone (top zone valve)?

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11-12-17, 05:16 PM   #10 (permalink)  
Yes it will catch air from both zones. Yes that is where I suggest putting another vent..

If its easy to add air sure bump up the expansion tank..

I always run 15 psi... But sometimes you bump the psi a bit higher to compress the air more temporarily to get it out.. then let it go back to 12..

Oh how many air vents do you have now?
What type of heat emmiters do you have?


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11-12-17, 05:18 PM   #11 (permalink)  
Why is the blue handle throttled?



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11-12-17, 05:48 PM   #12 (permalink)  
That blue handle was throttled by the tech that came in. That leads out to the garage and is independent of the house loop. He thought throttling that changed the air/noise on the garage loop. I did not hear any appreciable difference. I just left it that way.

I have 3 air eliminators on the system. There is one on top of the boiler, seen in the original pictures. There is one on the supply side on top of a non-functioning valve (of some sorts) that leads to the house loop. The last one is on garage heater, technically the highest point on the system, but not used often.

Almost forgot to mention, my radiators all look like what you can see on the left side of the picture showing your suggested vent placement. All baseboard, copper and fin emitters.

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11-12-17, 06:50 PM   #13 (permalink)  
Well open the blue handle up... You cant throttle with a ball valve. And if you did try to throttle the valve would look almost closed to get any king of reduction.. Plus why reduce the GPM through the loop? You will get less heat ..

Open it..

The air vent at the modine is probably of some use, but the one at the old flow control probably useless..

From my experience you want the second one on the return before the pump as I have shown..

Again.. If you keep adding water or opening the system to do whatever your doing, stop!!!

The water in my boiler has been in there probably 30 years until I did some add ons like . adding baseboard, fixing piping for a more current piping scheme. And that was some 10 years ago..

Yes my boiler is close to 60 years old.


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11-12-17, 07:09 PM   #14 (permalink)  
Thanks for the input Lawrosa. I surely don't mean to talk bad about techs out there, but where I live, boiler maintenance is a dying art. I wouldn't be on the forum if I had really good service from anyone locally. I trust the input here, from people that cannot observe personally more than the folks I pay to come in the house. I'll open that valve back up.

I know every time the boiler is opened up for fresh water, it is bad news. I will say when I ran the cleaner through the boiler, that was one time I probably did not need to go through the process. Other than that, the only time I've introduced water is when work had to be done. Before I moved in to the house, the garage loop had a known leak that the previous owner never properly addressed. First year I moved in, the original garage heater cracked while I was out of town. I later replaced the heater and had to flush that loop. Then of course in a different year, I had a pin hole leak in an elbow leading up to one of the radiators upstairs. I had that one fixed by a local contractor, which resulted in flushing the system. Then I ran that cleaner in the same year since new water was introduced anyway. I surely do not want to do a drain/flush ever again.

 
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11-12-17, 07:14 PM   #15 (permalink)  
I had a pin hole leak in an elbow leading up to one of the radiators upstairs.
You have radiators? Like cast iron?


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11-12-17, 07:28 PM   #16 (permalink)  
Sorry, wrong term. It was a white baseboard emitter like seen in the front view picture of the boiler. That is all I have in my house, upstairs or downstairs.

 
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11-12-17, 07:33 PM   #17 (permalink)  
OK let use know your outcome


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