Pressure relief valve leaking

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  #41  
Old 02-28-18, 06:39 PM
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p,
Has this pressure problem something you have always had or is it something recent when your expansion tank went bad.

When your pressure goes up is it cold pressure or hot. Do you run the system with your manual feed valve open or closed.

What do you do to lower the pressure and stop the relief valve leak.

As the pressure climbs fell the feed going into the boiler. Once the boiler is pressurized and running eventually that line should be warm. If it feels cold or cool water is feeding in which means your feed valve is leaking by. Shut off your manual feed to see if this stops the problem. If it does change the feed valve.

Did you try leaving the boiler off for a while and see if the pressure rises without the boiler being on.

If you can't find anything with you feed valve you also have a tankless coil that could have pinhole leak in the coil feeding into the boiler.

You could try shutting off your cold water feed to the tankless and see if that stops the problem. If so then your coil must be changed.

Hope this helps a little.
 
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  #42  
Old 03-01-18, 03:29 AM
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The pressure builds no matter if th ewater is hot or cold. Ive turned off th eboiler overnight and still. Ive turned off all the water going to the boiler and it still builds pressure even though theres little water in there.
 
  #43  
Old 03-01-18, 06:21 AM
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It looks like there is a leak above the air scoop at or around the vent. Is that normal? Does it point to the potential pressure problem or is it just another symptom – or totally unrelated?

Well thinking more about it, I guess maybe it really is just because of the high pressure
 

Last edited by zoesdad; 03-01-18 at 06:48 AM. Reason: added last sentence
  #44  
Old 03-01-18, 12:12 PM
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Drain to proper pressure and then shut your cold water off to your TANKLESS COIL over night and see if that solves your problem.

My guess is you have a leak in your coil inside the boiler. Since street pressure is higher than boiler pressure the water ih the coil will leak into your boiler raising your boiler pressure.

Your tankless coil is the round black plate on the top right hand side of the boiler. It has 2 pipes coming from it, 1 cold, going in and 1 hot, going to your faucets. Follow the cold water pipe going in and shut off the valve to stop fresh water from feeding in.

Cold water valve is the one with the RED WHEEL on the side of the boiler. DO NOT CLOSE the yellow handle ball valve. That is the hot side and must be left open for pressure reasons.

The next morning your pressure should be the same as you left it.

As long as you shut ONLY the COLD water valve you can still run your heat and it will have no effect on the coil and your pressure should remain stable.

I didn't address the leak because you seem to have that well in hand with your plan.

Hope this helps a little.
 
  #45  
Old 03-01-18, 02:30 PM
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Ok let me give you an exact description of whats going on. I turn the boiler off and completely cool down. I turned off the yellow hanlde valve along with the bigger red valve on the left going to the radiators and the smaller red valve above the yellow valve. So the only water going to the tank is the drinking hot water to the house which is the small red handle valve on the bottom right only because that valve is bad and needs to be replaced. I drain the boiler from the pressure relief valve so theres no more pressure. Somewhere in a next few hours pressure build up to 30 psi again. When I open the relief valve only a little water comes out and pressure drops again for the next few hours.
 
  #46  
Old 03-01-18, 02:33 PM
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Now I got home, and the pressure is at 30 and dripping out of the relief valve. I open it up to drop pressure, open all the valves and turn the boiler on. Go take a shower and go back downstairs and the pressure has been at 18 for about an hour so far. Sometime in the next few hours it will climb to 30 and start to drip, it wierd
 
  #47  
Old 03-01-18, 04:02 PM
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That RED HANDLE valve that needs to be replaced is the only valve I'm concerned with as that valve is the one that must be shut down to stop the water going to the coil I believe is leaking into the boiler.

All the rest of the valves do not matter at this point.

If that cannot be closed I believe you will continue to have your problem until replaced. If you can turn the handle to close the valve and then tighten the packing nut under the handle if it leaks, you should locate your pressure problem.
 
  #48  
Old 03-01-18, 05:17 PM
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Im getting confused here. You told me to not close th eyellow ball valve as thats the hot water but thats the cold water coming from the well pump feeding the boiler. And the small red valve on th ebottom right covered in corrosion is the hot potable water going out from the boiler to the house. So your saying the hot water from the house is backfeeding to the boiler? Sorry for my confusion.
 
  #49  
Old 03-01-18, 06:10 PM
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My mistake. I thought the red valve was the cold by the pic but you are right.

Close the yellow ball valve and leave the other one open.

Sorry for the confusion. I didn't enlarge enough.

Generally it is fed from the bottom and out through the top.
 
  #50  
Old 03-01-18, 06:29 PM
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Yea thats what ive been doing but the pressure still builds without much water coming out of the valve once I open it. Could the pressure be from the hot water coming back from the bad red valve?
 
  #51  
Old 03-01-18, 06:56 PM
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Are you saying that with the cold feed off to the tankless overnight the boiler still builds pressure enough to pop the relief valve.

Leaving the hot water valve open shouldn't raise the boiler pressure much even if a little syphons back.
 
  #52  
Old 03-01-18, 08:24 PM
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Best way to size a steam boiler is connected load and forget about btu's. it is all about sq. Ft. Of steam. Do not add anything for a pick up factor as all manufactures deduct 33% of boilers output for the pick up factor and publish the connected load figure. The problem many have run into the past few decades I'd pipe insulation was removed and either not replaced or replaced with a lower "R" value. Steam pipes should be a minimum of 1"
 
  #53  
Old 03-02-18, 03:52 AM
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Spott- yes even if I have all the valves turned off except the hot water out to the house ( I even turned off the hot water out to the radiator heat) and I empty the tank from the relief valve and releive all pressure, the pressure builds to 30 in a few hours and pops the valve.

rbeck- Im sorry but I have NO idea what your saying there or how it will help

So, could it be the vent on the air purger causing this?
 
  #54  
Old 03-02-18, 06:00 AM
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Your air vent shouldn't have anything to do with this. You do have heat and your system isn't air bound.

I know this seams repetitious but there is only 1 thing that will build pressure in a cold boiler and that is excessive water feeding in.

You have a shutoff on both sides of your feed valve and a union. You can close both of those valves and break that union and see if water is leaking by. Even if it is the other valve should stop the flow but at this point you can't assume anything.

If it was building pressure when hot I would say check the tank, even though it's new for proper pressure, make sure your valve between the scoop and tank is open and the stem didn't break when opened and closed.

Ball valves generally hold but nothing is guaranteed.

With that constant water feeding in are you having an air problem. I would you would be having to bleed system constantly.

What do you mean you drain the tank with the relief valve. Is your expansion tank getting full.

When you checked the pressure in the morning do any of the feed lines coming in feel excessively cold like water has been running. With all water off overnight pipes should be around room temp.

Just my thoughts.
 

Last edited by spott; 03-02-18 at 06:22 AM.
  #55  
Old 03-02-18, 09:00 AM
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I’m not sure that I understand the piping, but it looks to me like valve 1 should be normally closed (as it is in the picture, i.e., the handle is at 90 to the valve body). When valve 1 is open the pressure reducing valve is bypassed. Seems to me that valve 1 is just used to fast fill the boiler and should never be left in the open position when the boiler is running.

I think in the following you are saying you closed valves 7, 8, and 11.

I turn the boiler off and completely cool down. I turned off the yellow hanlde valve along with the bigger red valve on the left going to the radiators and the smaller red valve above the yellow valve. So the only water going to the tank is the drinking hot water to the house which is the small red handle valve on the bottom right only because that valve is bad and needs to be replaced
.

But I don’t know what you mean by -

So the only water going to the tank is the drinking hot water to the house which is the small red handle valve on the bottom right
The hot water for the house coming out of the coil has nothing to do with the pressure tank.

Maybe I missed it, but I don’t see where you ever shut off the cold water feed to the boiler during this troubleshooting. Wouldn’t valves 5 or 6 need to be closed to turn off the water supply? Without the supply closed then why couldn’t the problem just be a bad pressure reducing valve? And … maybe I’m out in left field – lol!! (the picture is a little dark for my eyes anyway)

(I think rbeck meant that post for another thread. He is one of the pro's around here.)
 
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  #56  
Old 03-02-18, 10:36 AM
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Z,
Thanks for numbering the valves. It makes it easier to describe.

He did shut off the feed a few posts ago. This is getting a little long now to follow but it's there.

The tankless coil has everything to do with the pressure if the coil has a pinhole and is feeding the boiler. That is why I asked him to close valve #8 which is the cold water supply to the tankless coil.

The bypass #1 to my knowledge has always been closed.

1) System cold water feed bypass valve
2) Drawoff
3) Return line shutoff
4) Auto feed valve
5) Manual cold water feed shutoff
6) Manual cold water feed shutoff
7) Supply line shutoff to baseboard ( 1 of 2)
8) Domestic cold water feed valve to tankless
9) Hot water shutoff valve to faucets
10) Shutoff valve for expansion tank
11) Supply line shutoff to baseboard (2 of 2)
 
  #57  
Old 03-02-18, 04:08 PM
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#3 is th ehot water out to the baseboard heat. You can see the circulator pump below it
#7 just goes to a heater in the basement wall ann I keep it turned off
#8 is th ewater supply coming form the well pump

Does the circulator push or pull?Not that it helps here but if it pulls then yes #3 is a return

So basically I turn off 3-5-7-8-11, pull the pressure relief valve till pressure drops all the way, then sometime in th enext few hours pressure builds up to 30psi. Pull the pressure relief valve and not much water comes out but itll drop again. I dont get where this pressure is coming from. Is this pressure that builds up just from baseboard heat or does house hot water affect it too? If th etank I installed was set a little higher than 12 psi say 14 or 15 would that cause this too?
 
  #58  
Old 03-02-18, 04:33 PM
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p,
Your a little confused. #3 is the return line shutoff.

Your heating water goes out the top and returns to the bottom of the boiler.

Your circulator is on the return line and your circulator, being on the return line bringing water back from the baseboards and out the supply line #5 & #7 unless you have them shut off. You have #7 shut off so it is only going out #8 to the baseboards.

To try to locate your pressure problem you only have to shut off #5, 6, & 8. Those are the cold water feeds into your boiler.

If you shut those off overnight your pressure should remain the same as you left it.

The higher psi in the expansion tank is fine and will not cause a problem.

Is the relief valve going off on its own or are you doing it because the gauge says 30.

If the valve isn't leaking on its own you may have a bad gauge and it may not be 30 psi at all.
 
  #59  
Old 03-02-18, 06:00 PM
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No the valve starts to drip once the gauge hits around 28-30psi. Drips out about 4 gallons overnight
 
  #60  
Old 03-02-18, 06:07 PM
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Can I ask if I turn off 5 why would I need to cut off 6? Ive had 3 cut off when Im not running my house heat so what would turning off 6 do?
 
  #61  
Old 03-02-18, 06:07 PM
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Is your boiler line or your tankless inlet line excessively cold like water running or trickling in all night.

In case 5 is leaking by 6 would catch it if it's good.

3 is above 6. So even if you have 3 shutoff 6 is feeding in below and will go to the boiler. 3 is just cutting off the return from the system which means nothing. If you look at you pipe locations you'll see 6 can still feed the boiler.
 
  #62  
Old 03-02-18, 06:46 PM
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Havent noticed if tis coldl or not. Ill shutoff 5,6,8 tonight and check in the morning. Should I drain anything to reduce the pressure?
 
  #63  
Old 03-03-18, 05:08 AM
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Ok so woke up this morning and it never built pressure overnight for the first time. BUT I now have a bigger issue cause I turned all the valves on and pressure quickly spiked to over 40 psi and is now pouring out of the valve. I opened 3, 5, 6, 8, 11. Only thing I did different was turn 6 off
 
  #64  
Old 03-03-18, 05:24 AM
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Dont these signs point to a bad pressure reducing valve as zoedad pointed out? Anyway to check it?
 
  #65  
Old 03-03-18, 06:17 AM
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Spott, you were right. The reason the system pressurized overnight is due to #5 leaking. So it sounds like I dont have a hole in the tank. I opened the bottom of the reducing valve and the screen and other pieces just fell out and thats how I found #5 was leaking allowing water to pass through.
 
  #66  
Old 03-03-18, 08:19 AM
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P,

Finally, some good news. Better the valve than the coil.

Now at least you can get your pressure to where you want it and leave 6 shutoff until you fix it and run your system normally.

Congratulations,

Z, thank you again for labeling those valves.

SKIP
 
  #67  
Old 03-03-18, 09:10 AM
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One more thing I need to understand. What happens when 1, 5, and 6 shutoff? Is the reducing valve and expansion tank just for baseboard heat? Im running the heater now
 
  #68  
Old 03-03-18, 09:58 AM
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P,
#1 should be shutoff all the time except for fast filling to bleed the system.

As for 5 & 6, if they are shutoff you will lose the ability to self feed the boiler with the auto feed valve if necessary. Other than that as long as you start with the proper pressure and have no leaks nothing will happen. Just check it periodically to make sure everything is OK.

It is an option to keep them opened or closed. People run their systems both ways.

Other than #1 & 2 and 7, if you don't want heat to that basement heater, everything else should be open, with 5 & 6 being you're option to run opened or closed.

Hope this helps a little.
 
  #69  
Old 03-04-18, 10:51 AM
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Didn't read all the latest posts so far, just starting, but it sounds like a little good news.( Lost all power Friday afternoon, just got it back. temp 49 in the house , aaahhh ...nothing like a little cold to stimulate the mind - lol)
 
  #70  
Old 03-04-18, 03:58 PM
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Man Im sorry to hear that. Turned off valves 5 and 6 to bypass the auto feed valve and everything is good. Will it do any harm to leave it like this? What exactly does that valve do?
 
  #71  
Old 03-04-18, 04:29 PM
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That auto feed valve is factory set at about 12psi and is adjustable if higher pressure is wanted.

That auto feed valve automatically feeds water into the boiler if the boiler pressure drops below the valve set point.

If you have the pressure you want and have no leaks and check it periodically to make sure everything is fine you can leave the valves off without a problem.

If you need a little more pressure you can always open valve #1 to let in a little water or bleed the system if need be but don't forget to close it when done.
 
  #72  
Old 03-04-18, 06:07 PM
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Thanx for all your help spott
 
  #73  
Old 03-04-18, 07:27 PM
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Your welcome, thank you for the update.
 
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