1 Pipe Steam System PROBLEM. Please help.

Reply

  #41  
Old 03-11-18, 08:17 AM
Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: United States
Posts: 2,687
Likes Received: 8
If the vent won't move try taking the nipple out below the vent and the remove when on the ground or just replace the nipple and vent.

They can be stubborn. You can put an extension on your pipe wrench for more leverage or hit the pipe wrench with a small sledge hammer to loosen.

2 wrenches are always better if you can get in there but that main should take the strain of just one wrench.
 
Sponsored Links
  #42  
Old 03-11-18, 04:40 PM
Member
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: USA
Posts: 487
Try to tighten the vent first, just a slight turn will do, then try to remove the vent.
 
  #43  
Old 03-11-18, 06:26 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: usa
Posts: 46
quick question....

is it possible to have my boiler run a longer cycle?if i let it run just 5 or 10 minutes longer, all my upstairs radiators will get hot. they get hot quickly once steam reaches upstairs...


btw, i decided not to take a chance right now and mess something up by changing my main vent because its still snowing here.. LOL Ill wait till it warmer before messing with this part..
 
  #44  
Old 03-12-18, 03:33 AM
Member
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: USA
Posts: 487
As I stated in my 2/18/18 post #4, that the 3 added radiators that were installed for the addition now make the boiler marginally too small for the total steam load. Under normal operating conditions the steam that usually went to the 2nd. floor is now going to the addition. The piping system has also be impacted since I am guessing that these 3 radiators were added to near the end of the horizontal supply run.. The "old-timers" that designed these systems were exact in their layout and allowed for very little changes to the overall system. The fact, that if you increase the boilers run time and overheat the 1st. floor in order to get the 2nd floor radiators hot indicates that the boiler and piping system have been greatly impacted by the addition of these 3 added radiators. The only way you are going to get the 2nd floor radiators to heat properly is to make changes (up grades) to the existing system. I have seen this scenario play out many times and the addition of numerous main line vents and vari-vents help but almost never solve the problem. The contractors that added the additional radiators to an existing 1 pipe steam system broke a cardinal rule of steam flow and boiler capacity. The only way to correct this "sin" is to change the way this system delivers steam to all the radiators. This is why I dislike most contractors, since there is always a cheaper way to "screw the customer" when a good contractor gives a price to do the job correctly. Now you are left as we say "holding the bag".
 
  #45  
Old 03-12-18, 05:35 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: usa
Posts: 46
Steamboy, you make 100% sense and i understand your logic. What should i do though! ?? AHHHHH! There must be a way to KIND OF balance out the system without redoing the whole heating system!


All my radiators work so i can totally understand that due to the extension built on my house wioth 3 added radiators, its taking the steam away from the 3 upstairs that was supposed to be heated. Kind of like this boiler was piped for 10 but now i have 13, so the 3 towards the last of the line will get less steam if any during a NORMAL run cycle.

Because i set my thermostat to 72 degrees, it will cycles when the temp is like 71 and only run for a short time until the first floor reaches 72 degrees, then stop, leaving my upstairs cold.

BUT how about if instead of setting the temp to 72 degrees, i just set a schedule for my heat to turn on like every 4 hours, or before i get up in the morning and before i sleep, so that when it turns on, the cycle will run longer, therefore producing enough steam to heat the upstairs? This isnt the best option, but can be my only option.

Or i can reline my thermostat with those wire extenders just a little to where its colder?

This is fun but frustrating. HAHAHHA I THANK all you steam pros for your ideas.~
 
  #46  
Old 03-12-18, 07:58 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: usa
Posts: 46
I am doing a test.

I closed all 3 of my first floor home extension radiators so now all the rest of my radiators are original. Now the pipe sizing and boiler btu should be correct. Ill see if my upstairs gets warm during normal cycling. My 3 upstairs are all opened to let maximum air flow... Mist o Maids #C valves. The 5 left on first floor are all vari vavlves and some are half way closed and fully closed..
 
  #47  
Old 03-12-18, 08:27 AM
Member
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: USA
Posts: 487
If this was my house this is what I would do to keep from spending lots of $ for a complete system update. Move the thermostat to the coldest upstairs room, Install "danfoss " type thermostatic valves on all the other radiators, install a vari-vent set on slow or low on the radiator in the room with the thermostat. As the radiators heat the rooms with the thermostatic valves, they will stop taking steam and there will now be steam available for the rest of the house. The room with the thermostat will be the last to heat up. With these valves you still need a thermostat to cycle the boiler on/off for the system to work properly. I have done this on systems that had the wrong boiler installed by a contractor that had no idea how to install a boiler correctly. What you are experiencing on your system is exactly how a system with a too small boiler operates. The radiators closest to the boiler get the available steam and the rest do not. I hate to be the bearer of bad news but I think it is time to make some changes. One last thing, did you try to double up the vents on the upstairs radiators as I mentioned on 2/27 post #35. It may work or not.
 
  #48  
Old 03-12-18, 08:54 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: usa
Posts: 46
Do you remember the name for the wire extender Steamboy!? I am moving the thermostat!!!!
 
  #49  
Old 03-12-18, 09:37 AM
Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: United States
Posts: 2,687
Likes Received: 8
T,
I see things a little different. With all due respect to SB there is no one here that can tell you your boiler is undersize without knowing the radiation hooked up to it

Steam goes by sq. ft. of steam and not heat loss when figuring boiler size and you have not provided any rad sizes. At this t is all just assumption about boiler size.

That being said if your boiler is heating those rads with longer cycles and you're not shutting anything off is telling me your boiler is fine and your stat is just getting satisfied before the upstairs can get hot.

Steam is gravity and as with all old gravity systems being it be warm air or hot water in the old days it goes where it wants to. It will take the path of least resistance like all of us do.

If that room that has the stat in it has a large rad and gets hot it's going to shut the stat and system down. Simple as that.

Did you try just for grins to shut the rad completely off in the stat room and see what happens, or move your stat to a more common area. If you move your stat upstairs you will be greatly overheating downstairs and will be very uncomfortable.

I doubt if shutting off those 3 new rads will make a difference unless they happen to be near the stat to provide more heat to satisfy it faster.

Something you can try is to close the doors to any rooms that have them keeping the heat away from the stat and see if that helps just as a test.

Instead of spending money on doubling the vents just completely remove them and run the system as a test. Nothing will vent quicker than an open hole.

What extenders are you looking for. To move your stat you just need 18/3 stat wire.
 
  #50  
Old 03-12-18, 10:23 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: usa
Posts: 46
I read your whole response SPOTT... This is the picture so its clearer.

BTW GUYS. I have 3 radiators upstairs. 7 downstairs, 3 of the 7 are from an extension the old owner had built additional to the home.

I just did a test and shut off the 3 radiators at the SHUT OFF BALL VALVE from the extension of the house, leaving only the original 3 upstairs and 4 downstairs radiators opened and waited for a NORMAL cycle when temp dipped below 72 degrees..

*** CONCLUSION = INDEED ALL 3 upstairs and 4 downstairs radiators heated up during a NORMAL CYCLE!

I FEEL LIKE IM GETTING CLOSE TO SOLVING MY PROBLEM~!!!!


The thermostat is on the 1st floor living room in an OPEN LAYOUT so its hard for me to move it anywhere but upstairs a little along the same wall.

I have all of the radiator steam vents VARIVAVLES completely closed on the 1st floor and upstairs MAID O MISTS #C ( fast venting ).

I assuming since my only issue is the shortened cycle therefore not getting enough steam upstairs since i had 3 additional rads installed to my extension of the house, i will have to move the THERMOSTAT just a little higher, wheres its colder and takes longer to heat up, and hopefully that will solve my issue. I will leave the vents as they are. Allvari vari vavles on first floor CLOSED or half open for SLOW VENTING, and the 3 upstairs MAid O MIST #C , fast venting, so steam goes here faster.....

WHAT DO YOU GUYS THINK OF MY PLAN???????????????????
 
  #51  
Old 03-12-18, 11:04 AM
Member
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: USA
Posts: 487
Thumbs; I said my piece and am pretty sure I am right, however, Spott has his point, and he feels he is right. We do not know the square footage of the installed radiation, the piping sizes, or the actual size of the installed boiler or the firing rate of the boiler WE can only go by the information presented since neither of us is there. That being said, only you can decide what steps to take with your system. I always tried to do what was right for the customer and told them the truth even if was not what they wanted to hear. Raising the thermostat too high or making the house too hot on one floor is not a solution to your problem. I said that my fix was my best guess. Even though I did this for 40+ years does not mean I am always right but in this case I probably am. You be the judge.Oh yes, 18/2 or 18/3 thermostat wire is all you need to move the stat.
 
  #52  
Old 03-12-18, 11:05 AM
Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: United States
Posts: 2,687
Likes Received: 8
T,
Being that those 3 were an extension I am surprised but glad that the upstairs heated. Figured the extension would have a lot further to go but it must the layout that makes it easier for the steam to get to.

Anyway, it sounds like it's narrowed down to keeping the stat running longer without creating a sauna downstairs is the answer.

So now it's trial and error I guess on the location. Just locate it in a cooler location.

You have 2 mains coming off the boiler. Is one for the upstairs and which one is the addition on and do you have 2 vents. One for each line.
 
  #53  
Old 03-12-18, 05:32 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: usa
Posts: 46
both of you are helping me and i appreciate so much im geetting this for free!

THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!


Im gonna think where i can move it. MAybe up to the hall way right on the upstairs wall.
 
  #54  
Old 03-12-18, 06:30 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: usa
Posts: 46
spoTt so usually each main line has 1 vent? I found my first vent. I wonder where my other is. Im gonna change both of them to BIG MOUTH vents in the sPRING time. Not now in case i mess something up.
 
  #55  
Old 03-12-18, 07:23 PM
Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: United States
Posts: 2,687
Likes Received: 8
T,
Follow the other main to the end and if you have one it should be there.

If possible move the stat to a location where there is no rad. but in an area with air circulation. Avoid tucked away corners. Hallways are good, about 5 ft. off the floor is standard height for stats.
 
Reply

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Display Modes