New Boiler due to inaccessability

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  #1  
Old 06-15-18, 12:19 PM
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Angry New Boiler due to inaccessability

Hi,

So I have a 15 yo Burnham Revolution that is leaking from the internal circ pump. (or gasket)
The pump is inside the boiler on the left near the rear.

The boiler has very little room on the left, perhaps 5 inches. I had a company come over and they said I had two options
1. Cut out the boiler, fix the leak and put it back
2. Get a new boiler $17K ish with a 3 year warranty
Here is a link to some photos. Photos

https://1drv.ms/f/s!Aht1L6lZJfEohoUwZfFxCYbNpatM4w

I'm outside Boston. Luckily it's not an emergency so I'm not under the gun to decide now.

Any thought on this? Thanks
 
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  #2  
Old 06-16-18, 07:54 PM
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The Burnham boiler manual link below shows a pump assembly with bolted flanges inside the unit.

http://bostonheatingsupply.com/Burnh...O%20Manual.pdf

Cut away a big section of boiler panel to expose pump.

Measure the flange to flange dimension.You can probably replace it with pumps from a number of manufacturers. A modern ECM pump with multiple ranges and auto sensing like the Grundfos Alpha would be good.

https://www.supplyhouse.com/Grundfos...w-Terminal-Box

An alternative is to install an external pump and use flanges with a nipple to replace old pump.
 
  #3  
Old 06-17-18, 02:41 AM
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You would think that whoever originally installed that Boiler in this cubbyhole ought to be able to now service it without requiring a complete replacement ?
 
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Old 06-17-18, 05:47 AM
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Well when it looks easy it usually turns out I don’t really understand the problem – lol. But if you look at page 90 of the manual doug linked to in post #2, you see part 5D “Jacket Left Side Panel”, and that comes off with some screws. Wouldn’t that expose the internal pump?


(well little tough to get to the screws, the unit is 28"deep 33" high - but seems still doable to me. just need a long arm or a tool of some kind. I think - lol)
 
  #5  
Old 06-17-18, 10:52 AM
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M,
17,000 sounds like a lot of money for a boiler replacement. If you have any mechanical ability and are interested in this kind of project it is basically a DIY project.

If interested I would be happy to give you my suggestion on your repair.
 
  #6  
Old 06-17-18, 10:09 PM
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The .pdf page 83 parts breakdown shows the pump to be a Taco 007.

Installing electric pumps in a heated furnace enclosure is poor design. Even at room temperature Taco 007's do not last long.

A new 007 is $90 at Supplyhouse.com and HomeDepot.

I would still use a Grundfos Alpha inside or out. With 8 speeds and autosensing of pressure or temperature plus much lower electrical consumption it is a best buy.

Use the square black "O" that come with these pumps. The red rubber flange gaskets have a much shorter life.
 
  #7  
Old 06-18-18, 06:11 AM
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Thank you for the input. I have that manual too. If I google that part number listed the cost is $300-ish. I just saw the branded Taco for $90. I like that price.
 
  #8  
Old 06-18-18, 02:20 PM
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Before mrbostn buys a replacement circulator he should consider how to remove the old and install a new one. Normally a gap is needed between the flanges to remove or install the pump.

Burnham has made provisions to obtain a gap. Look at .pdf page 82 and see two round gaskets 1G with round bolt holes. Look at the four flanges 1F . The bolt holes are oblong to allow them to be rotated.

http://bostonheatingsupply.com/Burnh...O%20Manual.pdf

The upper "Y" pipe and flange is connected to house plumbing and cannot be rotated.

To get pump free remove flange bolts. Then loosen bolts on round flange below it. Rotating that pipe assembly can open a gap between pump flanges to remove it.

If I had this situation would extend the piping so the pump was outside the housing and avoid this hassle in the future.
 

Last edited by doughess; 06-18-18 at 04:09 PM.
  #9  
Old 06-24-18, 04:14 PM
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I agree, I've been studying the manual and have 3 other Taco pumps that push hot water to my water tank, and my heating. They have similar bolts.

So, I am no way competent in moving the pump outside the housing....who would do this? a regular plumber?
I'm guessing the HVAC company that came out is only interested in replacing the entire furnace.

Sorry to keep this going, everyone here is probably tired of my trials and tribulations....

doughess you have been very helpful. Thank you. Thanks to the rest of you for the input. I'm in IT and participate in many IT forums..I love helping others and reading about how issues get solved.
 
  #10  
Old 06-24-18, 04:52 PM
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m,
If you think about it what good is moving the pump to the outside which CANNOT BE DONE since it is a bypass pump for the boiler and is tied into the special fitting for the supply and return piping. Even if it could be relocated you would still have to repair the leak and if you are able to do that then why go through the hassle of relocating the pump.

Next, you can replace that pump with a regular off the shelf Taco 007 or any other brand of pump you choose. There is nothing special about the one that's there. It is a variable speed but that is done by the VS3000 circulator control. Although the Grundfoss Alpha is a good pump in your case I would stay away from it in your case because it may conflict with the other control.

If you remove the boiler replace the couplings on the supply and return pipes with unions for ease of service in the future. It should have been common sense to do that in the first place.

The way your system is set up it is not that big a job to remove the boiler. You wouldn't buy a new car if you had a flat tire, at least not in the circles I travel in.

By the way, the other 3 pumps are for the heat to the house. The pump in the boiler has nothing to do with delivering hoy water to your house zones. Same pump, different functions.

Hope this helps a little.
 

Last edited by spott; 06-24-18 at 07:06 PM.
  #11  
Old 06-25-18, 07:22 PM
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There are many types of Taco 007 pumps with the 007-F5 being the most common. Verify what is used in Burnhams.

Again electric pumps inside a heated cabinet have reduced life. Taco's frequently have to be replaced. That HomeDepot stocks 007-F5 validates that.

The Taco 007 uses common pipe flanges with various sized female pipe threads. Only standard pipe fittings from HomeDepot or where ever are needed to move the pump outside. It is a basic plumbing job. Adding a couple of fittings and pipe is not going to be a issue.

Spott's suggestion to remove boiler and install unions then reinstall it is a lot of work and accomplishes little if anything.

Just move the pump outside to improve pump life and make replacements easier.
 
  #12  
Old 06-26-18, 11:31 AM
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I just have one last statement as this seems to be getting to the point of confusion which becomes counter productive in solving the problem.

With all doughess' suggestions I have yet to hear how he proposes to repair the leak and yet he's quick to criticize any other suggestions.

If you look at page 74, figure 50 at the diagram you will see that where the pump is installed it is attached to a factory installed manifold which cannot be altered.

That manifold takes system return water and boiler supply water and returns it to the boiler. If you look at the location of the pump and the direction it is pumping that should be enough explanation as to why it must stay in that location.

As for replacing the couplings with unions it should be clear to see that it would accomplish ease of service in the future if the pump problem arises again.

I'm not going to even address the boiler removal statement as we all see things differently and to me, although it's something that shouldn't have to be done had the installer done his job right in the first place it's a minimal amount of work with a few well placed cuts.

I believe I've offered all the productive thoughts I have at this time and I wish you the best of luck which ever way you go.
 
  #13  
Old 06-27-18, 09:59 AM
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mrbostn started this thread about water leaking from pump.

I and others responded with suggestions on dealing with it.

Evenutally mrbostn posted “doughess you have been very helpful. Thank you. Thanks to the rest of you for the input.“

Spott now posts that he finds this thread confusing. Apparently he does not understand or is missing something. With Spott's 1,938 posts maybe he is stretched thin?

I found mrbostn thread interesting and a good example of DIY being a helpful form. Unfortunately it also shows that extraneous issues can be raised.
 
  #14  
Old 06-27-18, 10:43 AM
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D,
After all your banter I still have not heard any suggestions from you on how to fix the leak.

After you get done patting yourself on the back maybe you can come up with a productive suggestion. The only confusion being created is by your thought process on this problem.

It's obvious at least to me that you and I are like oil and on our views and approaches to most jobs but that's not a bad thing, as different thoughts can be productive but I wish these mindless responses of yours because someone doesn't agree with you would stop.

Enough said.
 
  #15  
Old 06-27-18, 11:21 AM
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My thought process was simple. We are not fixing the leak, rather replacing pump and gaskets with new for $90.
https://www.supplyhouse.com/Taco-007...5-HP-1983000-p

If you want to fix it Taco replacement cartridge is $85 which includes "O" ring.
https://www.supplyhouse.com/Taco-007...onze-4117000-p

The flange gaskets are $.99 each:
https://www.supplyhouse.com/Weil-McL...t-for-Taco-007
 
  #16  
Old 06-27-18, 03:09 PM
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D,
I understand what you are suggesting for replacement and that's fine and I agree it's just an off the self Taco-007-F5 pump but the leak must be fixed no matter what other avenue he takes, but getting access to the leak is the question that was asked. At present the leak is the problem and must be addressed and everything else is secondary.

Once access is obtained the repair is simple. As of now he doesn't even know what is leaking. It may be just a gasket. I wouldn't think he would need a cartridge because the pump is working.
 
  #17  
Old 06-28-18, 08:42 AM
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If mrbostn is doing all this work to replace a flange gasket why not go all the way and use a new pump.

On cold winter nights I want reliability. A new pump means longer life,....better than a few dollars saved under the pillow. The old one can be kept as a spare.
 
  #18  
Old 06-28-18, 09:21 AM
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This might come as a shock to you but I totally agree. If you have to go through all that work to get to it then definitely replace the whole unit. It would make no sense to me to just replace the gasket and not the pump, especially when it's 15 yrs. old. No matter who does the job a new pump is definitely the way to go.
 
  #19  
Old 07-05-18, 12:52 PM
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Just a quick note to all. I going to try and find someone that will replace the pump (and associated gaskets etc) I am not likely to replace the entire furnace.
Additionally I am not likely to move the pump to the outside of the furnace.

Finally The leaking has stopped. Who knows why-maybe some sediment buildup or whatever.

Finally-Any advice on the type of hvac/plumber that will cut away the housing to get to the pump? Or should I ask to cut the piping to the furnace, then move the furnace where the pump is accessible then replace the pump?
 
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