Need some help with boiler system.

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Old 11-25-18, 06:21 AM
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Need some help with boiler system.

Sorry for the long post...
we have a small single story home (800 square feet) with a very old American standard boiler on the basement, one zone, 5 radiators. The circulator pump is seized due to years without maintenance by the previous owners. Our radiators get warm but it takes a long time. Iím planning on replacing the pump. Itís a Bell & Gossett Little Red Booster pump, 1/20 hp (LR20BF). Does anyone have any recommendations for a replacement? The people at supplyhouse.com told me B&G has a pump that will work but itís $200. I was thinking of the Taco 007 f5.

Also, the pump is hooked to an AQUASTAT which is strapped to a pipe on the supply side just above the boiler. What should I have the aquastat set at? Itís an old white-Rodgers (11b09, No.2) and it only has one possible setting. My other question is this: should this AQUASTAT also be hooked up to the boiler? Or does my boiler have an aquastat already? It does have a ďlimit tempĒ adjustment inside of it, basically a dial with a big spring attached to it.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Iím trying to do this as simply and cheaply as possible.
 
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Old 11-25-18, 08:41 AM
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W,
Taco 007 is fine. Pics of the controls and boiler would be helpful if possible to see what you have.

https://www.supplyhouse.com/sh/contr...5%20circulator

http://www.supplyhouse.com/Taco-007-...5-HP-1983000-p
 
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Old 11-25-18, 04:37 PM
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Older hot water boiler systems that utilized cast iron radiation, radiators or baseboard, had an aquastat that controlled only the operation of te pump. We would set that aquastat to open and shut off the pump at 110 degrees and the differential set to the minimum' This would insure that the pump ran any time the system's water temperature was above 110 degrees. Today, very few systems are installed with cast iron radiation because of the cost. Those systems were the Cadillacs of the day. There should be at least 2 more aquastats that control the boiler's temperature.
 
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Old 11-25-18, 04:44 PM
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Some helpful information...... How-to-insert-pictures
 
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Old 11-25-18, 04:58 PM
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Thanks to everyone for the replies. Iíve included some pictures of the boiler. Iím sorry theyíre sideways. In the one picture of the inside you can see the temperature limit adjustment. Iím assuming this is an AQUASTAT. Iím an electrician, so please excuse my ignorance.
Iíll be ordering the taco 007 tonight.

The other thing that Iím noticing is that the boiler pressure seems to be dropping even though there is absolutely no evidence of a leak anywhere, everything is bone dry. What am I missing? I filled it up to about 12-14psi and it is now down to about 9 after about 36 hours.

P.S.
Does anyone have any idea how old this boiler might be?

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Last edited by PJmax; 11-25-18 at 05:05 PM. Reason: cropped/reoriented/resized pics
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Old 11-25-18, 05:18 PM
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American Standard 2ga53.
Those boilers are from the early 50's. The actual age is in the serial number.

An older similar thread on DIY
An interesting find (pdf)
 
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Old 11-25-18, 05:28 PM
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W,
I thought I'd seen just about all the old gas trains but I never ran into this.
An aquastat is a control that controls water temp and although that brown control on your gas train has the shape of an aquastat is a gas control.

Just a shot in the dark without the cover off or being able to see where the wire goes, I,m guessing that wire might go to the t-stat. On a call for heat the stat opens that valve to the burners and then the pump comes on with the other aquastat and when the stat is satisfied it closes the gas valve and when the water temp in the boiler cools below the aqustat setting the pump shuts off. This is just a guess from what I can see.

As to the age I saw a pic of Mosses taking it off the ark. The silver lining is they brought 2 of everything so there may be another one out there.

The boiler goes back to at least the 50's (19). I've worked on similar boilers but not set up with gas trains like that.

Is a pic of the pump and aquastat and any other controls if any possible.
 
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Old 11-25-18, 05:38 PM
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You're right spott..... there are two. There's another one in the DIY link I posted.
 
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Old 11-26-18, 08:08 AM
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A few more questions

I canít even begin to tell you how helpful you all have been. Iíve uploaded some more pictures of the AQUASTAT/pump setup as well as my expansion tank.

Ive ordered the taco 007 pump and it is supposed to arrive today.
When the boiler is not running the pressure is down around 8-9 Psi, but when the boiler is running it shoots up to around 20 psi. This seems like a big jump. Could this be because my expansion tank is waterlogged? i was going to drain the expansion tank but there is no isolation valve. Iím now planning on doing it when I drain the boiler to replace the pump since there are no isolation valves for the pump either.

Is there anything I need to know about draining the tank? There is a little air inlet valve on the valve that I would use to drain the tank. Iím assuming I open the air valve and the drain valve at the same time and simply drain it all the way down.

One more question... where is the pressure relief valve on the boiler? I donít see one anywhere. There is a pipe sticking out of the side of the boiler that has been capped. Is that where the PRV should be?

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Last edited by PJmax; 11-26-18 at 10:20 AM. Reason: reoriented/enlarged pics
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Old 11-26-18, 08:19 AM
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One more question... where is the pressure relief valve on the boiler? I donít see one anywhere. There is a pipe sticking out of the side of the boiler that has been capped. Is that where the PRV should be?

Yes. Without a pressure relief valve, your boiler is a bomb.
 
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Old 11-26-18, 12:31 PM
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W,
That tank must be drained completely when you start or you will have bigger problems after. If you have an air vent on that valve it may help some but don't be fooled by thinking the tank is empty if water stops after a few minutes. IT's pulling a vacuum and without air being able to be introduced into the tank to break the vacuum the water may just gurgle and gulp its way out until empty. It could take quite a while.

If your draining the boiler anyway you can drain from the tank and the boiler together, that may help with that.

Before you take that old pump off make sure the new one fits into the same space. Depending on the pump brand, they have there own dimensions. You may have to repipe if it's shorter than the one there. Better to be prepared than to get apart and find out you need something. Also, although they should be the same check the flanges to make sure the holes line up.

Definitely install a 30 PSI relief valve. They come in male and female. You need a FEMALE. Just remove the cap and with pipe dope install your relief valve and then get a nipple, elbow, and a pipe that will extend about 6" from the floor for safety.

As gil said, without that relief valve that vessel is like a bomb if it gets under excessive pressure with no where to go.

Hope this helps a little.
 
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Old 11-26-18, 05:03 PM
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Spott,
Thank you so much for mentioning that i should make sure the new pump will work before I take the old one out. I was about to start ripping into it when I read your post. The pump will fit but the flanges that are there are for the Bell & Gossett pump and they won’t work with the Taco pump I got. I’m going to run to the supply house tomorrow and grab some taco flanges as well as a PRV.

Thanks again for everyone’s help!
 
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Old 11-26-18, 05:15 PM
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Both pumps are 6 3/8" I believe so they are interchangeable. As for the flanges, they are pretty universal between brands from 3/4 - 11/2" pipe size.

Flanges can be bought separate for any job so they are pretty universal but I would double check.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iG_mIA-B6Jk

Informational: May help.
 
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Old 11-30-18, 07:32 AM
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OK you young "PUPS" . That gas valve was common years ago. I believe it was made by ITT general . That spring thing on the side could have been either an adjustable limit or on some installations the gas valve was a fully modulating gas valve. That boiler is quite old but they last until they crack a section or start to leak. By the way I have seen boilers of this design last over 100 years. The easiest fix today for this expansion tank is a new bladder tank adequately sized to the systems. Check inside and up, above the burners to see if a relief valve is there. If not, you definitely need one, mounted as Spott said. One last thing, the reason why you may not have a relief valve is because the old PRV's could be equipped with a down stream relief valve that satisfied the code many, many years ago Look up Bell and Gossett 110199 model 8. for reference. Hope this helps.
 
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Old 12-03-18, 05:00 AM
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First of all, thanks for all the replies and help with this. You guys helped me save a lot of money doing this myself.
When I drained the boiler I realized that there is actually a PRV way up stream right after the cold water shutoff valve. Iím not sure if this is sufficient since it is so far away from the boiler. As for the expansion tank... I drained it completely when I drained the boiler. It took a good hour and a half to get it totally empty, and now the pressure in the boiler seems a lot more steady (about 12 psi when cold and about 15 when hot rather than 9 and 20). The whole system is working better now that the pump has been replaced and the tank has been emptied. The radiators get hotter faster and stay hot for a much longer time.
 
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Old 12-03-18, 02:03 PM
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W,
Thank you for the update. Merry Christmas!!
 
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