Does an oil fired boiler use a lot of electricity?
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Does an oil fired boiler use a lot of electricity?
My electric bill jumped up over $50 dollars this month (November) and I'm just wondering if the boiler coming on and off is causing it and if that much of a jump is normal or may my boiler need some work?
Another thing is is that the water doesn't get as hot now that it's almost winter. It's a tankless coil oil burner and we have baseboard heat, etc. It's a WBV-03 PEERLESS Boiler.
Also my house uses baseboard heat and this tankless coil for hot water. Is there a better and maybe more economical way to heat the hot water?
My house is a very small 900 sf ranch. I'd like to keep the oil burner for the heat, but was wondering if I should install something else for the hot water or just continue using the tankless coil.
I like to take baths a few times a week and of course have to slow the water to a crawl to get a bath of hot water and that's not even really filling the tub. And the water is not HOT by any means.
Another thing is is that the water doesn't get as hot now that it's almost winter. It's a tankless coil oil burner and we have baseboard heat, etc. It's a WBV-03 PEERLESS Boiler.
Also my house uses baseboard heat and this tankless coil for hot water. Is there a better and maybe more economical way to heat the hot water?
My house is a very small 900 sf ranch. I'd like to keep the oil burner for the heat, but was wondering if I should install something else for the hot water or just continue using the tankless coil.
I like to take baths a few times a week and of course have to slow the water to a crawl to get a bath of hot water and that's not even really filling the tub. And the water is not HOT by any means.
#2
Does the Utility read your meter every month . . . . mine used to estimate established accounts and then catch up with an actual reading once a year ?
Maybe November was your month ?
Most Boilers just use electricity to run a motor and some inconsequential control circuitry . . . . not a big draw.
Maybe November was your month ?
Most Boilers just use electricity to run a motor and some inconsequential control circuitry . . . . not a big draw.
#3
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Utilities use estimated billing to inflate income. Our estimated bills are often twice the average monthly charges.
Read you electric meter. Call the utility give them your reading and ask for corrected bill.
They may want to send someone to read meter.
Your call questioning the bill, asking for correction, will avoid any late payment issues or charges.
Make notes and keep a log on this.
Read you electric meter. Call the utility give them your reading and ask for corrected bill.
They may want to send someone to read meter.
Your call questioning the bill, asking for correction, will avoid any late payment issues or charges.
Make notes and keep a log on this.
Last edited by doughess; 12-01-18 at 11:54 AM.
#4
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Hi Brian,
Winter can cause some increase, colder water, less daylight and sometimes more cooking. But the increase along with the limited supply of hot water suggests something is wrong.
Can you share typical monthly bills and what you would expect vs what you got.
Advice from others is good.
Bud
Winter can cause some increase, colder water, less daylight and sometimes more cooking. But the increase along with the limited supply of hot water suggests something is wrong.
Can you share typical monthly bills and what you would expect vs what you got.
Advice from others is good.
Bud
#5
The age of the boiler and it's hot water coil and the type of your domestic water supply (well or city) may help determine why you are having a hard time supplying enough hot water for bathing. These boiler installed coils will "lime up" or plug up with age and use. If this is the case the coil will need to be cleaned or flushed to rid the coil of this plugging. Usually this is done by a professional that does this work or by replacing the coil unit. Depending on the cost of your electricity and fuel oil it may make sense to replace the domestic coil with a regular electric hot water tank. One advantage to having a standard hot water tank is that the boiler does not have to run all summer for you to have hot water. This is what I did many years ago. As to the increased monthly bill, wait for a few more monthly bills before making a determination. And "NO" oil units do not cost a lot of money to run. The biggest costs are the oil you use and the cost for maintenance.
Last edited by Steamboy; 12-02-18 at 03:41 AM. Reason: more info
#6
You might consider an insulating blanket all around the boiler instead of installing a stand alone water heater for summer. If you don't feel the wamth of the boiler in the bsement in summer, then proving that the investment in a stand alone water heater for summer use is worthwhile will at least be a difficult calculation which in turn leads most folks to not make that investment.
But your boiler hot water coil needs attention as described. This adds another number to the calculation and that is over my head to determine whether that tilts the balance in favor of installing an electric tank for year 'round use and not replacing the boiler coil.
(For those eavesdropping) All boiler systems with baseboard radiators have a (n electric) circulator pump. If this fails to shut off between heating cycles, your electric power use will be noticeably higher although this failure will not go unnoticed for more than an hour or so (the boiler won't be allowed to cool down and the house will oveheat) when the boiler also provides domestic hot water.
Utility companies cannot go for long by estimating bills on the high side to show and report higher income or receipts without coming up with a large credit balance at some not too far future date.
But your boiler hot water coil needs attention as described. This adds another number to the calculation and that is over my head to determine whether that tilts the balance in favor of installing an electric tank for year 'round use and not replacing the boiler coil.
(For those eavesdropping) All boiler systems with baseboard radiators have a (n electric) circulator pump. If this fails to shut off between heating cycles, your electric power use will be noticeably higher although this failure will not go unnoticed for more than an hour or so (the boiler won't be allowed to cool down and the house will oveheat) when the boiler also provides domestic hot water.
Utility companies cannot go for long by estimating bills on the high side to show and report higher income or receipts without coming up with a large credit balance at some not too far future date.
Last edited by AllanJ; 12-02-18 at 07:44 AM.
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When was the last time the boiler was serviced? As in a preseason cleaning with nozzle and oil filter changes?
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I think a couple years ago. Maybe more.
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Thanks guys. So what should I have done as maintenance?
My hot water does not get hot, but was in the summer. It also doesn't stay hot for very long, but gets tepid very quickly.
If I want to take a hot bath for example. I can only hope to take a warm bath and have to constantly run the water at a trickle to keep warming it up.
The plumber last year that was here to fix a copper pipe in the basement said "With a tankless coil your not going to be taking a hot bath, you may have enough though for a shower"
My hot water does not get hot, but was in the summer. It also doesn't stay hot for very long, but gets tepid very quickly.
If I want to take a hot bath for example. I can only hope to take a warm bath and have to constantly run the water at a trickle to keep warming it up.
The plumber last year that was here to fix a copper pipe in the basement said "With a tankless coil your not going to be taking a hot bath, you may have enough though for a shower"
#11
Some boilers need to have at least one zone calling for heat in order to churn the boiler contents which improves the performance of the tankless coil. A "dummy zone" can be created for this purpose using an aquastat with sensor in or at the tankless coil (could be the master aquastat that turns the boiler on and off). The circulator for the dummy zone runs with the burner and simply runs boiler water from the hot radiator supply manifold to the return manifold.
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Some boilers need to have at least one zone calling for heat in order to churn the boiler contents which improves the performance of the tankless coil. A "dummy zone" can be created for this purpose using an aquastat with sensor in or at the tankless coil (could be the master aquastat that turns the boiler on and off). The circulator for the dummy zone runs with the burner and simply runs boiler water from the hot radiator supply manifold to the return manifold.
#13
The problem with having a tankless coil in the boiler to supply hot domestic water to a home is that the boiler's water temperature has to be maintained high enough to supply hot water at the "point of use". This temperature is somewhere around 140 degrees 24hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year. This steady boiler temp is accomplished by a low limit control. I always had a hard time justifying running a boiler both summer and winter. That is why I recommended a "stand a lone" tank. Also, if you can not get a steady supply of hot water from the coil heater then the boiler's water temp is too low or the coil is plugged. my 2 cents
#14
Just to avoid getting way off track . . . . I would call Customer Service at your Electric Company and see if they can volunteer a simple explanation as to why your November kilowatt hour usage appears to have jumped.
They may already be fielding several calls regarding this matter; that's what they're there for.
A few decades ago, my utility tracked down some excessive usage to an old refrigerator's compressor.
Others in this area have found power leaking into the ground because of faulty connections (sometimes giving continuous shocks to milking cows and reducing their production).
Utilities want to know about these issues, and there's usually no charge for the investigation.
They may already be fielding several calls regarding this matter; that's what they're there for.
A few decades ago, my utility tracked down some excessive usage to an old refrigerator's compressor.
Others in this area have found power leaking into the ground because of faulty connections (sometimes giving continuous shocks to milking cows and reducing their production).
Utilities want to know about these issues, and there's usually no charge for the investigation.
#15
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This thread started about electric issues. As happens in may DIY heating threads, tankless coils became part of it.
While tankless coils are a very efficient source of DHW in winter, they have limits and issues arise. A hybrid system is often a solution.
There is a good way to get more hot water capacity in winter with tankless systems and in summer at lower cost other avoid issues .
Install a separate direct fired water heater. Use aquastat on tank to activate circulator pump for tankless coil heat source in winter and direct fire tank in summer.
In summer flip switch and aquastat starts water heater burner.
Have used this hybrid system for years to increase hot water capacity of tankless system in winter at lower cost than direct fired tank.
Directly fired water heater in summer is more economical than boiler. If going to add separate tank, get one with heater. Then spend another $200 on circulator and plumbing.
Long term savings provide good pay back.
While tankless coils are a very efficient source of DHW in winter, they have limits and issues arise. A hybrid system is often a solution.
There is a good way to get more hot water capacity in winter with tankless systems and in summer at lower cost other avoid issues .
Install a separate direct fired water heater. Use aquastat on tank to activate circulator pump for tankless coil heat source in winter and direct fire tank in summer.
In summer flip switch and aquastat starts water heater burner.
Have used this hybrid system for years to increase hot water capacity of tankless system in winter at lower cost than direct fired tank.
Directly fired water heater in summer is more economical than boiler. If going to add separate tank, get one with heater. Then spend another $200 on circulator and plumbing.
Long term savings provide good pay back.
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Ok guys my "little" ranch house is from 1971 and about 900 sf , very small and basic "cheap" type house from that era.
So I've got a Peerless boiler and of course the tankless coil for hot water and it's oil fueled. That's about all I know about heating!
I've got baseboard heating upstairs on the ONE level of the house (there's only 1 level and 2 bedrooms a bath and a living room and kitchen. I only have basically 4 rooms in the house and a small 3 season room that extends into a back patio, etc. There's also one semi finished room in the basement with no heat.
So are you all saying that a small (40 gal) tank installed right off the Peerless boiler is more or less the way to go for better HOT water?
Is this referred to as a DIRECT HEATED TANK? It's heated by the boiler instead of electricity?
I'd like to keep the oil fired baseboard heating though since it works well and it's a tiny house.
Thanks, new to all this heating stuff.
So I've got a Peerless boiler and of course the tankless coil for hot water and it's oil fueled. That's about all I know about heating!
I've got baseboard heating upstairs on the ONE level of the house (there's only 1 level and 2 bedrooms a bath and a living room and kitchen. I only have basically 4 rooms in the house and a small 3 season room that extends into a back patio, etc. There's also one semi finished room in the basement with no heat.
So are you all saying that a small (40 gal) tank installed right off the Peerless boiler is more or less the way to go for better HOT water?
Is this referred to as a DIRECT HEATED TANK? It's heated by the boiler instead of electricity?
I'd like to keep the oil fired baseboard heating though since it works well and it's a tiny house.
Thanks, new to all this heating stuff.
#17
In order to interface a stand alone water heater with your boiler you have to alter the water heater which may void the warranty.
You would use an oil fired tank water heater. It comes with its own aquastat.
I think the plumbing goes like this. From the drain valve you run a pipe (with a garden hose connection to attach to the drain valve) to the boiler coil cold inlet. You tee in the boiler coil hot outlet to the water heater top cold inlet.
In winter r the stand alone water heater burner is manually switched to stay off. Some invasive wiring changes are needed to get the tank aquastat to activate the circulator in the boiler coil to tank plumbing loop . In summer the loop circulator is manually switched out of the circuit and the water heater's own burner is set to kick on and off normally.
Most gas water heaters do not have an aquastat that will do the above with the boiler. An electric water heater could be used instead of oil but is likely to result in a higher cost compared with no stand alone water heater and the boiler running all year.
You would use an oil fired tank water heater. It comes with its own aquastat.
I think the plumbing goes like this. From the drain valve you run a pipe (with a garden hose connection to attach to the drain valve) to the boiler coil cold inlet. You tee in the boiler coil hot outlet to the water heater top cold inlet.
In winter r the stand alone water heater burner is manually switched to stay off. Some invasive wiring changes are needed to get the tank aquastat to activate the circulator in the boiler coil to tank plumbing loop . In summer the loop circulator is manually switched out of the circuit and the water heater's own burner is set to kick on and off normally.
Most gas water heaters do not have an aquastat that will do the above with the boiler. An electric water heater could be used instead of oil but is likely to result in a higher cost compared with no stand alone water heater and the boiler running all year.
Last edited by AllanJ; 12-07-18 at 05:06 PM.
#18
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Circulating tankless coil water through separate water heater does not impact warranty. Allanj is wrong.
There is not change to the heater. Using water heater aquastat to activate circulator in winter does not void warranty.
In 20 years my system has only needed a new anode for $25 and 007 circulator for $90. The water heater warranty expired after 8 years.
Formally in summer direct fired oil main burner for DHW using 75 gallons of oil. Now use 25 gallons per summer, or 50 gallons less.
Over 20 years that is 1,000 gallons. At $3.00/ gallon that is $3,000 saved. AND there is plenty of hot water year round.
There is not change to the heater. Using water heater aquastat to activate circulator in winter does not void warranty.
In 20 years my system has only needed a new anode for $25 and 007 circulator for $90. The water heater warranty expired after 8 years.
Formally in summer direct fired oil main burner for DHW using 75 gallons of oil. Now use 25 gallons per summer, or 50 gallons less.
Over 20 years that is 1,000 gallons. At $3.00/ gallon that is $3,000 saved. AND there is plenty of hot water year round.
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There is not change to the heater. Using water heater aquastat to activate circulator in winter does not void warranty.
#20
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Zoesdad question: Where is this water heater Aquastat that is NOT part of the water heater?
Answer is in post #15
Answer is in post #15
Install a separate direct fired water heater. Use aquastat on tank to activate circulator pump for tankless coil heat source in winter and direct fire tank in summer.
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Isn’t AllanJ actually correct? Isn’t the modification you are talking about a wiring change to the oil fired hot water heater, when properly considering the burner as an integral part of the product. I don’t see how that is not a modification to the product, and thus (it seems to me anyway) that should certainly void the warranty. Let alone the possibility, however remote, of some kind of damage or injury occurring that would then be legally considered negligence, even though the modification may not have been the actual cause.
Also, I don’t think you included the price of the oil fired water heater when you calculated that you saved $3000 over 20 years.
Also, I don’t think you included the price of the oil fired water heater when you calculated that you saved $3000 over 20 years.
#22
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Z,
Since basically the tank is what is under warranty. Reconfiguring the controls and using the tank or vessel for storing hot water from your tankless coil to have an additional ready supply of hot water will not effect the tank warranty because you are not altering the tank at all.
In fact by using your tank as just a storage vessel during the heating months is most likely adding additional life to the tank since it's the direct heat from the oil burner in the tank that shortens the life and is why they only warranty them usually for 6 years.
You can use any vessel for additional hot water storage. They actually make a tank called an aquabooster tank which is a stand alone tank that stores water from your tankless coil. It is basically a hot water tank without the burner installed so you must run your boiler all year round which is why those tanks generally last 20 years because there is no chamber to accept the direct high heat from a burner.
The drawback to aquaboosters or any storage tank is they can only store the temp. and amount of water the coil can produce.
To simply add a tank to a coil that needs replacing or cleaning because it no longer puts out sufficient hot water is useless. If your coil runs out of hot water after a couple of minutes that's what will get stored in the tank.
You can't expect to store 130 deg. water when your coil only puts out 110 because it's limed up. It's common sense but I see it done time and time again where people add these tanks to bad coils and expect great results. Does not happen.
Since basically the tank is what is under warranty. Reconfiguring the controls and using the tank or vessel for storing hot water from your tankless coil to have an additional ready supply of hot water will not effect the tank warranty because you are not altering the tank at all.
In fact by using your tank as just a storage vessel during the heating months is most likely adding additional life to the tank since it's the direct heat from the oil burner in the tank that shortens the life and is why they only warranty them usually for 6 years.
You can use any vessel for additional hot water storage. They actually make a tank called an aquabooster tank which is a stand alone tank that stores water from your tankless coil. It is basically a hot water tank without the burner installed so you must run your boiler all year round which is why those tanks generally last 20 years because there is no chamber to accept the direct high heat from a burner.
The drawback to aquaboosters or any storage tank is they can only store the temp. and amount of water the coil can produce.
To simply add a tank to a coil that needs replacing or cleaning because it no longer puts out sufficient hot water is useless. If your coil runs out of hot water after a couple of minutes that's what will get stored in the tank.
You can't expect to store 130 deg. water when your coil only puts out 110 because it's limed up. It's common sense but I see it done time and time again where people add these tanks to bad coils and expect great results. Does not happen.
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spott-
Well that’s good if they honor the warranty, but below is the kind of thing I was thinking about. This is from an A.O. Smith gas water heater warranty. I just figured they would say “you changed it, so it’s now totally yours”. In other words, they would take a hard line and give a lot of weight to the word “alteration” in the statement below. But maybe if the tank fails they would honor the warranty anyway, as you say, the alteration shouldn’t affect the tank.
Well that’s good if they honor the warranty, but below is the kind of thing I was thinking about. This is from an A.O. Smith gas water heater warranty. I just figured they would say “you changed it, so it’s now totally yours”. In other words, they would take a hard line and give a lot of weight to the word “alteration” in the statement below. But maybe if the tank fails they would honor the warranty anyway, as you say, the alteration shouldn’t affect the tank.
Manufacturer shall not be liable under this warranty and the unit and/or parts will not be covered, and have no effect if the following events occur:
a. The water heater or any of its component parts have been subject to misuse, alteration, neglect or accident; or …
a. The water heater or any of its component parts have been subject to misuse, alteration, neglect or accident; or …
#24
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Z,
It's tough to answer something like that. You are right to be concerned because of the wording. At one time it was only licensed trades who could purchase these tanks or any stock from a supply house so the manufacturers were just dealing with the quality of their equipment since they felt confident they were being installed by a licensed professional so to speak.
Then the box stores opened and anyone could buy anything and install it themselves, licensed or not, if they knew what they were doing or not so now the manufacturer has to cover their butt because you never know what people will try. This is the price they pay for selling their wares in the box stores to the public.
In my experience if a contractor has a warranty issue they usually don't question it and I've never had anyone come out and look at anything or even ask for the original item back, which most likely would not be the case if a homeowner was in the same situation. I'm sure there would be a lot more questions asked.
It's tough to answer something like that. You are right to be concerned because of the wording. At one time it was only licensed trades who could purchase these tanks or any stock from a supply house so the manufacturers were just dealing with the quality of their equipment since they felt confident they were being installed by a licensed professional so to speak.
Then the box stores opened and anyone could buy anything and install it themselves, licensed or not, if they knew what they were doing or not so now the manufacturer has to cover their butt because you never know what people will try. This is the price they pay for selling their wares in the box stores to the public.
In my experience if a contractor has a warranty issue they usually don't question it and I've never had anyone come out and look at anything or even ask for the original item back, which most likely would not be the case if a homeowner was in the same situation. I'm sure there would be a lot more questions asked.
#25
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This thread starts about issue of insufficient hot water from tankless coils.
I posted how when faced with that issue installed a separate oil fired water heater with circulator. In my home it saved $3,000 over twenty years.
Others in subsequent posts have raised many issues including warranty. One post even wrote cost of water heater should be deducted from savings. Actually the savings were 3 x cost of water heater. Increasing DHW capacity resulted in $2,000 profit. Duh duh duh
I posted how when faced with that issue installed a separate oil fired water heater with circulator. In my home it saved $3,000 over twenty years.
Others in subsequent posts have raised many issues including warranty. One post even wrote cost of water heater should be deducted from savings. Actually the savings were 3 x cost of water heater. Increasing DHW capacity resulted in $2,000 profit. Duh duh duh
#26
Originally Posted by doughess
". . . This thread starts about issue of insufficient hot water from tankless coils . . ."
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Brian –
I also have the tankless coil and this:
seems to me anyway, to indicate that something might be wrong with your Aquastat. I’m pretty sure that the Domestic Hot Water (DHW) should NOT be colder in the winter than in the summer. The Aquastat gives priority to the DHW and therefore circulators which pump the hot water through your house for heat are turned OFF (temporarily) when the water gets too cool for DHW usage. (You set the temp for DHW via the low limit setting on the Aquastat).
In other words, you don’t want to keep sending the hot water through the house transferring its heat to radiators, at the expense of making the boiler water temperature unsatisfactory to supply a call for DHW, should one occur. So circulators are turned OFF temporarily while the burner runs to heat the water.
Maybe the Aquastat is NOT turning OFF the circulators when it should. In fact, I wonder if that could be why your electric bill went up. If for some reason the circulators are continuously running I think you would notice a difference in your DHW temp and your electric bill.
Could be wrong. Maybe others will weigh in on this.
I also have the tankless coil and this:
My hot water does not get hot, but was in the summer…
In other words, you don’t want to keep sending the hot water through the house transferring its heat to radiators, at the expense of making the boiler water temperature unsatisfactory to supply a call for DHW, should one occur. So circulators are turned OFF temporarily while the burner runs to heat the water.
Maybe the Aquastat is NOT turning OFF the circulators when it should. In fact, I wonder if that could be why your electric bill went up. If for some reason the circulators are continuously running I think you would notice a difference in your DHW temp and your electric bill.
Could be wrong. Maybe others will weigh in on this.
#28
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Re Post #26: Maybe Vermont should read the rest of Brian1900 first post. The next 4 paragraphs are about hot water. I offered a solution to Brian1900 problem, not a critique of the text.
Am not a worrywart obsessed with warranties and the like, trying to find fault with things.
Am not a worrywart obsessed with warranties and the like, trying to find fault with things.
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Ok guys I'm going to call someone after xmas to do my annual boiler tune up. I haven't had it done in a couple years or more.
So am I right that I eventually should go DIRECT HOT WATER tank and use the boiler to heat that instead of staying with the tankless coil? I have a small house (900 sf) and there's only 3 people including myself, but someone said that TANKLESS COILS are old fashioned nowadays.
I have a PEERLESS boiler (oil fired) and I think it's relatively new within 10 years or maybe a little more.
So am I right that I eventually should go DIRECT HOT WATER tank and use the boiler to heat that instead of staying with the tankless coil? I have a small house (900 sf) and there's only 3 people including myself, but someone said that TANKLESS COILS are old fashioned nowadays.
I have a PEERLESS boiler (oil fired) and I think it's relatively new within 10 years or maybe a little more.
#30
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Unfortunately many professionals and other commenter's do not substantiate their positions.
One way to check efficiency is with stack/vent temperature. My boiler stack temp is 350F = 85% and water heater stack temp 550F 79%.
Obviously, using boiler tankless coil in winter for DHW is more economical. Running direct fired water heater in summer for DHW is typically more economical that running boiler all summer.
Tankless coils are not old fashioned. When tankless DHW capacity is inadequate an easy and fuel efficient way to increase it with separate water heater tank. Earlier posts explain setup.
Have a well instrumented heating system and keep detailed records. System provides adequate DHW, is reliable, economical and have data to prove it.
One way to check efficiency is with stack/vent temperature. My boiler stack temp is 350F = 85% and water heater stack temp 550F 79%.
Obviously, using boiler tankless coil in winter for DHW is more economical. Running direct fired water heater in summer for DHW is typically more economical that running boiler all summer.
Tankless coils are not old fashioned. When tankless DHW capacity is inadequate an easy and fuel efficient way to increase it with separate water heater tank. Earlier posts explain setup.
Have a well instrumented heating system and keep detailed records. System provides adequate DHW, is reliable, economical and have data to prove it.
Last edited by doughess; 12-20-18 at 08:54 PM.
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I'd like to be able to take a hot bath for example without having to slow the tap to almost a trickle. Even then it's not really a hot bath. Right now even our shower is warm to tepid and never really gets hot. Maybe the tankless coil is limed up?
When I had a plumbing company here in the summer to do a leaking copper pipe the young kid that worked for them said "most likely they turned up the settings on your boiler to compensate for the coil being limed up" or something similar.
He said it would be around $1000 to put in a new coil, etc. He never tested the system though because he was here for the leaking pipe and was more or less guessing. He was around 24 years old I'd say, so don't know how much he was speaking from experience.
When I had a plumbing company here in the summer to do a leaking copper pipe the young kid that worked for them said "most likely they turned up the settings on your boiler to compensate for the coil being limed up" or something similar.
He said it would be around $1000 to put in a new coil, etc. He never tested the system though because he was here for the leaking pipe and was more or less guessing. He was around 24 years old I'd say, so don't know how much he was speaking from experience.
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Wow is it really that complicated and controversial to just get some good hot water in my tiny house from an oil burner furnace with a tankless coil?
I'm having a technician look at it after Christmas.
So would you all just guess that my coil is limed up? That's what I'm thinking, but I'm not an expert. Maybe I'll just have to see what the guy that looks at it says.
As long as I can take a hot shower and maybe a bath once in a while that's all I care about! I don't have separate zones, etc, etc. My HOUSE IS NOTHING FANCY, it's a 900sf ranch house that most people would turn their noses up at.
I can't see why it has to go on and on about what I'll save over 20 years, blah blah and bickering back and forth about various heating systems.
I figured people verses in heating could just give some good advice after being in the trade for years and would know if there were better ways to get hot water than my setup. That's all I wanted to know really, but first I want some hot water and not tepid water or hot water that lasts for 2 minutes in the shower and then turns to tepid.
I thought that my particular set up was supposed to provide hotter water in the winter, but it's actually hotter in the summer and now it rarely gets hot.
What I'm also more importantly wondering is if the tech says the coil IS LIMED UP, whether it's better to do something different rather than spend $1000 or more to put in a new coil or whatever. I thought that if I put in a DIRECT FIRED TANK I won't need a coil and that would be better setup rather than another coil that'll get gummed up eventually?
I'm having a technician look at it after Christmas.
So would you all just guess that my coil is limed up? That's what I'm thinking, but I'm not an expert. Maybe I'll just have to see what the guy that looks at it says.
As long as I can take a hot shower and maybe a bath once in a while that's all I care about! I don't have separate zones, etc, etc. My HOUSE IS NOTHING FANCY, it's a 900sf ranch house that most people would turn their noses up at.
I can't see why it has to go on and on about what I'll save over 20 years, blah blah and bickering back and forth about various heating systems.
I figured people verses in heating could just give some good advice after being in the trade for years and would know if there were better ways to get hot water than my setup. That's all I wanted to know really, but first I want some hot water and not tepid water or hot water that lasts for 2 minutes in the shower and then turns to tepid.
I thought that my particular set up was supposed to provide hotter water in the winter, but it's actually hotter in the summer and now it rarely gets hot.
What I'm also more importantly wondering is if the tech says the coil IS LIMED UP, whether it's better to do something different rather than spend $1000 or more to put in a new coil or whatever. I thought that if I put in a DIRECT FIRED TANK I won't need a coil and that would be better setup rather than another coil that'll get gummed up eventually?
#33
Member
Brian,
First off it is not that complicated to get hot water or sufficient hot water in your case to take a bath.
Your initial question was about a raise in cost of your electricity bill. Your boiler running is not going to raise your bill 50.00. You have 2 motors that use electricity and that's it so do the math.
Your rates either went up or you just used more electricity for something else. Your same boiler was running last year I assume and you were satisfied, so eliminate the boiler.
Now, your lack of hot water problem. On the surface it looks like your coil is limed up but how old is it. With coils it does happen but it's not the end of the world. In my opinion 1000 is too much for a replacement. You can buy the coil for around 300, the rest is pretty much their labor, depending if they sell you a new mixing valve and other valves and how they set it up.
Coils are the least expensive way to get hot water, part wise. You can buy an indirect and an independent tank but at a higher initial cost. Coils have been around forever and there is nothing wrong with a coil if they serve your purpose and are set up right. Depending on how much hot water you require is what you have to consider.
A proper operating coil will give you all the water you need in your case.
To test your coil, turn on your hot water faucet only on your tub, and go to the coil before the mixing valve and feel the hot water pipe coming directly from the coil. If it stays good and hot then feel the pipe after the mixing valve for the temp there. If the hot water pipe turns cool right out of the coil then your coil needs attention. It's not rocket science.
One more thing, for a coil to produce the rated amount of hot water it was designed for, you need 180 deg. water surrounding it. That means your boiler aquastat must be set at 180. Any lower it will effect hot water production.
If you want to save a buck by running your boiler at lower temps then a tankless coil is not for you. All hot water heating components including baseboard, and even indirect heaters and coils are all designed for 180 deg water to produce their rated values. It's as simple as that. If you run lower temps you accept the consequences.
First off it is not that complicated to get hot water or sufficient hot water in your case to take a bath.
Your initial question was about a raise in cost of your electricity bill. Your boiler running is not going to raise your bill 50.00. You have 2 motors that use electricity and that's it so do the math.
Your rates either went up or you just used more electricity for something else. Your same boiler was running last year I assume and you were satisfied, so eliminate the boiler.
Now, your lack of hot water problem. On the surface it looks like your coil is limed up but how old is it. With coils it does happen but it's not the end of the world. In my opinion 1000 is too much for a replacement. You can buy the coil for around 300, the rest is pretty much their labor, depending if they sell you a new mixing valve and other valves and how they set it up.
Coils are the least expensive way to get hot water, part wise. You can buy an indirect and an independent tank but at a higher initial cost. Coils have been around forever and there is nothing wrong with a coil if they serve your purpose and are set up right. Depending on how much hot water you require is what you have to consider.
A proper operating coil will give you all the water you need in your case.
To test your coil, turn on your hot water faucet only on your tub, and go to the coil before the mixing valve and feel the hot water pipe coming directly from the coil. If it stays good and hot then feel the pipe after the mixing valve for the temp there. If the hot water pipe turns cool right out of the coil then your coil needs attention. It's not rocket science.
One more thing, for a coil to produce the rated amount of hot water it was designed for, you need 180 deg. water surrounding it. That means your boiler aquastat must be set at 180. Any lower it will effect hot water production.
If you want to save a buck by running your boiler at lower temps then a tankless coil is not for you. All hot water heating components including baseboard, and even indirect heaters and coils are all designed for 180 deg water to produce their rated values. It's as simple as that. If you run lower temps you accept the consequences.
#35
I don't know if you have a "pin" boiler, and if you do, you might have a double whammy. A limed up coil, and a sooted up boiler especially around the coil section, as they are a bear to clean, as the coil section is very hard to get at and clean around and between the pins. If in fact if this is your case, you should be sure that the person who cleans your boiler pays special attention to that section of your boiler, since as you said that the boiler has not been cleaned in a couple of years.
Sid
Sid
#36
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Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: United States
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Thanks everyone maybe I'll check the aquastat temp first.
This is the boiler I have I believe or pretty close.
https://www.afsupply.com/peerless-14...SABEgLZq_D_BwE
This is the boiler I have I believe or pretty close.
https://www.afsupply.com/peerless-14...SABEgLZq_D_BwE