Taco 007 replacement and Pressure/Temp


  #1  
Old 12-30-18, 08:19 PM
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Taco 007 replacement and Pressure/Temp

So my original B&G circulator pump was too old causing a leak. If you see the pictures you can see all the rust and white particles that was cause by the leak. I decided to replace that with a Taco 007 unit that I found to work. When disassembling the circulator, I found something weird. Looks like the original circulator was installed upside down? The arrow was pointing downward. My boiler is in the basement and I have 2 floors above the boiler. I decided to mount the Taco with the arrow facing up. Started the system, no leaks.. but I found the pressure to be 30+psi cold. The temperature also goes way over 200F on the gauge and beyond the readings. Because of this, I was scared and turned off everything to let everything cool down.

See picture. Attached after install pic and pic of the pressure. Any help appreciated.
Should the taco arrow be pointing down like the original circulator or pointing up like the way I installed it? What's causing the psi to be so high? Pressure tank (changed few yrs ago) bad?

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Last edited by PJmax; 12-31-18 at 09:55 AM. Reason: resized/cropped pics
  #2  
Old 12-30-18, 10:05 PM
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t,
Your pump is mounted on the return line so the arrow points down. The arrow always goes in the direction of the water flow.

If it was mounted on the supply pipe coming off the top of the boiler the arrow would be gong away from the boiler.

Most likely all your current problems are created from the pump going in the wrong direction.
 
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Old 12-30-18, 10:12 PM
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I figured that the water was supplied from the bottom of the pipe, so the direction of the water should be upward, not downward. I'll swap tomorrow and check again.. The pressure is 30psi currently with the pump off.
 
  #4  
Old 12-30-18, 10:15 PM
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At 30 PSI your relief valve should be leaking. Maybe your gauge is a little off. If is leaking drop the pressure to 20 PSI and you'll be fine. You can't run the boiler with the pump on backwards anyway.

I cannot see your supply pipe but if you have a flocheck on there, it only allows the water to flow 1 way, so you are pumping the boiler water out and nothing can get back in, creating your problems most likely.

You may be trying to heat an empty boiler. Obviously a no no.
 
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Old 12-30-18, 10:23 PM
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Using another picture to make sure we are on same page.
Yes when boiler was on, the psi hit 40+ and the air vent was steaming air out

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Last edited by PJmax; 12-31-18 at 09:57 AM. Reason: cropped/resized pic
  #6  
Old 12-30-18, 10:32 PM
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Yes, Arrow should be pointing down on new pump towards the boiler. The cold water feed does flow in that direction. You are most likely getting that hissing of air because there is no water in the boiler with the pump running the wrong way you may have created negative pressure.

Cannot tell because I cannot see the supply line.
 
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Old 12-30-18, 10:35 PM
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This is the supply line... Here I can shutoff the water and open the valve to let the water feed the boiler.

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Last edited by PJmax; 12-31-18 at 09:59 AM. Reason: cropped/resized pic
  #8  
Old 12-30-18, 10:36 PM
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I'm talking about the heating supply line coming off the top of the boiler going to your baseboards,not your cold water supply line.
 
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Old 12-30-18, 10:40 PM
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here's two more pics, does that help?

https://photos.app.goo.gl/7jKVhWHveMBY9AKo9
https://photos.app.goo.gl/H7iKnxDnxK3nj6pd6


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Last edited by PJmax; 12-31-18 at 10:07 AM. Reason: addec cropped/resized pic from link
  #10  
Old 12-30-18, 10:52 PM
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It's difficult to see where your supply pipe goes. Does it go into a tee and go in 2 directions. Can't tell with that insulation. Where does your relief valve come from. Does the return line also come from 2 directions.
 
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Old 12-30-18, 11:03 PM
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Relief valve comes out from the boiler.
Orange highlight (supply line?), pipe comes up from the top of the boiler then connects to a T pipe that goes up and down.
Green highlight (return line?), T pipe that joins the Taco Pump.. But from here, the red horizontal line goes from Taco into the boiler again. Then on the bottom of the Taco is a pipe that connects to the pressure tank and then to the water valve that fills the system.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/Ba8AvcNtJ7werM9Q7
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Last edited by PJmax; 12-31-18 at 10:12 AM. Reason: added resized pic from link
  #12  
Old 12-30-18, 11:10 PM
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That's what I thought. Why does the pipe go in 2 directions. Understand why it goes up but why does it go down towards the floor.

Anyway the first thing you need to do is change that pump. The rest might take of itself.

Did it run OK before you changed the pump.
 
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Old 12-30-18, 11:14 PM
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Yes, it ran fine until the old pump started to leak.
I think one goes up becuase there's a fan unit in the attic. Then the other runs downward becuase theres a fan unit below this floor. I believe this house has 2 of these fan units, one boiler and 3 thermostats.

When everything is off, does the pressure tank have any effect on the water pressure? In case after I change the pump and the psi is still high, does that mean the pressure tank is the issue?
 
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Old 12-30-18, 11:24 PM
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If the tank bladder has a leak and lost it's air charge which should be 12-15 PSI then the heated water will have no place to expand to and will cause high pressure in the boiler when the water is heated,

You can tap the tank with a screwdriver. The top will sound solid because of the water in it. The bottom will sound hollow because of the air bladder. If both sides sound solid you have a bad tank and it must be changed or at least try to recharge it if you have an air pump or compressor.

If you have a bad tank as the boiler water cools the boiler pressure will drop and as it is heated the pressure will rise and your relief valve will let go at 30 PSI.
 
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Old 12-31-18, 09:18 AM
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Swapped the Taco pump... Connected to the boilder, the steam valve is no longer releasing steam, but the guage shows 30psi cold and around 38psi when the system is running and i think the temp guage is broken.. The temp shows 125+F cool and over 200+F when hot. Valve is not releasing any water.

The other psi guage at the bottom of the system is showing 26-28psi constant. Not sure which guage to believe here.

Bottom level has heat... Second level not receiving heat and the fans aren't turning on. Third level fan turns on, but blows cold air. Any idea?
 
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Old 12-31-18, 09:59 AM
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My guess is you have air in the system which doesn't allow water to flow through the fan coils and must be bled.

At the fan unit, on the top of the coil you should see a manual air vent that must be opened to release the air and allow water to circulate and return back to boiler.

If you don't know where they are pics of the coils would be helpful.
 
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Old 12-31-18, 10:16 AM
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Each member is allotted 10 megs of picture storage. You used up your entire quota with 4 pictures. The board can only display 600x600 pixel and approx 75k file size. So whatever else you try to download is stored, counts towards your quota but is not displayed. I resized all your pics to board max giving you back 9 megs of storage.
 
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Old 12-31-18, 10:25 AM
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Looks like this gauge isn't showing PSI it's showing pounds per square feet
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​​ if this is the case 32 pounds per square feet should be okay?

the gauge here seems to be showing PSI correct
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I'm not too sure how to access the fan coil In the attic since there's no entry
 

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  #19  
Old 12-31-18, 11:01 AM
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I think that green gauge is broken. It is made to read PSI and is showing 38 PSI. The Feet Scale is showing the conversion from PSI to Feet of Head. One PSI converts to about 2.31 Feet of Head. So, for example, you can see on the gauge the 10 PSI mark lines up a little higher than the 20 Feet marker – showing that 10 PSI converts to 23.1 Feet of Head.

But it looks like the gauge is broken or that temperature needle is pegged way high. Is that the temperature needle way up past the 220 mark? Maybe not, but if not where is the temperature needle?

The 38 PSI I think is way high – but might be indicative of your problem and thus may be a correct reading. So temp maybe is off the charts and pressure is also way high. I guess that makes sense.

But I just saw that your other gauge reads 28. spott and the other guys will probably weigh back in.

(like the old saying "a man with one watch knows the time, a man with two watches is never sure of the time"
 
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Old 12-31-18, 11:05 AM
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PSI is pounds per sq. inch. My best guess is that your boiler gauge isn't working since the high reading is not releasing your relief valve on the boiler.

The gauge at the bottom, although probably more accurate may also be off. That bell shaped valve between your ball valve and the gauge is your auto feed valve and is factory set at 12 PSI. Unless its been tampered with to raise the pressure it may be defective also.

Do you leave your ball valve (red handle) open all the time or just when filling. That auto feed only lets water in when the boiler pressure drops below the setpoint of the feeder so there is no need to shut off the ball valve. If you must close it to stop the flow of water you have a bad feed valve.
 
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Old 12-31-18, 11:35 AM
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Red ball valve is left open all the time. I tested when bleeding the system that the bell shape thing was working. When I release some water from the valve, then you can heard the water feed through.

I could go to Lowe's and buy a new temp/pressure Guage to mount onto the boiler right? Should be plug and play? Do I need to remove all pressure from the system and bleed the water before removing the existing Guage?
 
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Old 12-31-18, 11:54 AM
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Yes, you must remove the pressure from the boiler as the gauge goes directly into the boiler casting. If you have valves you can close to isolate the system from the boiler then close them, otherwise you must do the same thing you did when you changed your pump.

To replace gauge just unscrew one and screw in new one remember the thread sealant for the gauge.

The come in different sizes so make sure you get the right pipe size. Usually 1/4" but may be different. If not sure you may want to take old one with you.
 
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Old 12-31-18, 09:19 PM
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Took off the bottom gauge near the red handle water valve. That gauge is stuck and dead at constant PSI even when removed.

I'm trying to figure out if the temp/pressure gauge mounted on the boiler is removable. it doesnt look like it.
 
  #24  
Old 01-01-19, 11:16 AM
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It is removable. Pot a wrench on the nut between the boiler and the round part of the gauge. It might be in there so tight you have to use some kind of extension pipe over the wrench to get better leverage but it will come out.
 
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Old 01-01-19, 11:51 AM
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https://photos.app.goo.gl/mMqRFRMq1Yf7Ukgo9

Afriad to break something.. And my wrench doesn't fit to well
 
  #26  
Old 01-01-19, 12:17 PM
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I realize you don't have much room to get to the stem. Most times you never do. That is why you use a small pipe wrench with a cheater bar to get the leverage of a bigger wrench.

The gauge is doing you no good the way it is so there are times I put a large pipe wrench right on the round gauge itself. Sometimes is comes out in 1 piece but more often than not the round piece snaps off giving you more room to work on the shank with a larger pipe wrench.

That shank is pretty thick so there's nothing that you can break. I've never heard of a that type of shank snapping in two. Just use some old fashion muscle and it will come. Just remember when replacing what you went through and do not over tighten new one.

Added thought. If you do not have the right tools then either get them or pay someone that does. Do not try to mickey mouse this thing or you will be in trouble.
 
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Old 01-01-19, 01:38 PM
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hey, decided that I won't go force that temp/pressure gauge off.

I took off this gauge easily and ordered a new one on Amazon. When removed it was stuck at that pressure. Also it was filled with gunk inside.

Will replacing this gauge give an accurate reading of the pressure in the pipe when compared to the one coming out of the boiler?

Can I purchase a heat gun from amazon to check pipe temperature?

Might not be as accurate, but would it be sufficient?

Also took off the expansion pump and found the pressure in the pump to be at 5psi. The tank wasn't loaded with water when i took it off, so i'm assuming it's fine. Went to the gas station and added the pressure back. Will see if it leaks any pressure while I wait for Amazon to deliver my gauge.

Thanks for all your help!
 
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Old 01-01-19, 02:13 PM
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An IR gun is handy to have, but I don't think it replaces the need for a boiler thermometer or, better yet, a tridicator that shows both pressure and temp. Every time I walk past my boiler, I make it a point to glance at the pressure and temp.
 
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Old 01-01-19, 02:17 PM
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The original people who installed for this house had another pressure gauge installed on one of the pipes. This is why i'm asking if replacing that gauge will give me an accurate pressure for the system. Then I can use a heat gun if needed.
 
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Old 01-01-19, 03:51 PM
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That pressure gauge, because of its location after the feed valve will most likely be fine but as for the heat gun. Nothing will take the place of the accuracy of the T&P gauge.

As gil mentioned, temp & pressure are the 2 most important readings on a boiler and should be as accurate as possible in my opinion. A heat gun will give you an estimate at best. You'll be able to get some temp readings off the pipes but don't no what it will do directly at the boiler but it's better than nothing I guess.

Something like this, clamped right onto your supply coming off the boiler and then even on the return, I think would be better than a heat gun. Below is a sight where you can see your options and then one like I was talking about. There may be others you can look at.

https://www.supplyhouse.com/Bluefin-...er-30F-to-250F

https://www.supplyhouse.com/Temperat...-Gauges-864000

https://www.supplyhouse.com/Viega-15...ture-Gauge-Set
 

Last edited by spott; 01-01-19 at 04:09 PM.
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Old 01-01-19, 10:22 PM
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Thanks, ordered the Viega 15055 gauge to clip onto the pipe. Also ordered a new expansion tank to replace the old one.
 
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Old 01-02-19, 08:04 AM
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In case you are wondering this is like what the entire gauge you were trying to remove looks like. (This isn’t the exact gauge, but similar.)
 
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Old 01-02-19, 08:28 AM
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i know, it's on very tight, don't have enough clearance.
 
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Old 01-03-19, 06:44 PM
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https://photos.app.goo.gl/KDz4FUW6EFpUFXhs6
New Pressure Gauge installed

https://photos.app.goo.gl/Lq1kJk7AW52AaCuR7
New Expansion Tank, checked to be 12psi before install

https://photos.app.goo.gl/oUq58TpMQcPKjkFL7
Finished install

https://photos.app.goo.gl/6TMMghKovDjg1hTj9
This is the pressure after bleeding.
.
.
  • Basement thermostat successfully turns on the boiler and runs the fans blowing heat when set to auto and temp set to desired.
  • 1st floor thermostat has issues. auto doesn't trigger call for heat or fan. Needed to max the temp and set to heat before anything works. I'm guessing i need a new thermostat for this floor?
  • 2nd floor thermostat.. set to auto with desire temp... The thermostat calls for heat, fan runs.. but no heat blowing out from the vent. The air coming out of the vent is cold. how to fix?
Thanks
 
  #35  
Old 01-03-19, 07:13 PM
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Increase your pressure to 20 PSI. to make sure you have enough to reach the unit. If that doesn't do it you may have to find a bleeder on the unit somewhere. If you cannot find one pics would be helpful. Were you able to bleed that unit at all, and did you have to bleed the others.

As far as your stat goes it sounds like it needs replacing.
 
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Old 01-03-19, 07:25 PM
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I went into the crawl space and found 2 Carrier Fan systems. These two control basement and 1st floor. The pipe connected to each of these did have a electric valve that had "auto" and "manual" switch. I set both of these pipes to off position and turn the switch to manual.
I did not find any bleeding valve in the entire system. The only release hole that i saw in the system is located below the circulator pump.. see pic here https://photos.app.goo.gl/oUq58TpMQcPKjkFL7
Bled the bottom two through this way...

Not sure how to get into the attic of the house. I'm guessing the third unit and valve is up there? Is it necessary to go up there? Or I just increase overall system pressure to 18-20psi.. Is that a safe pressure?
 
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Old 01-03-19, 07:54 PM
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That is a very safe pressure and what Taco recommends you run with there pumps to help prevent cavitation in the wet rotor pumps which is what you have. If that does not do it then you are at least going to have to look at the unit for a vent. That 20 PSI is what I run my own system at if that helps with your concerns at all.

That spigot that you have on the bottom of the pump isn't for bleeding, it's for draining the boiler. As you feed water in, there is no way to isolate the feed water from the return unless you have more valves than you're showing.

My guess is that when you fill your boiler, that 2nd story unit, being the highest might be catching all the air. The first thing to do though is fill to 20PSI and keep it there as your operating pressure.
 

Last edited by spott; 01-03-19 at 08:15 PM.
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Old 01-03-19, 08:24 PM
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So 20psi on my system is accurate? Doesn't look like the PSI change on that gauge when water is heated.

This is the two Carrier fans on the bottom of the basement in the crawl space
https://photos.app.goo.gl/FaDCG9HS6fXsBYvm8 this one is for 1st floor thermostat
https://photos.app.goo.gl/4Fr8iMC2HfZnBGxZ8 this one is for Basement thermostat.
Both are located in the same crawl space.

Each machine has a electric valve and a red handle to close the water to the pipe.
There's no bleed pipe that I can find.

I'm guessing the other Carrier fan is in the top floor in the attic. I've never been up there yet.
 
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Old 01-04-19, 07:09 AM
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Talking

Finally went up into the attic. the pipes were dead cold. found the drain valve and did a bleed. after couple gallons all the air is out and everything running fine now. time to buy new NEST thermostats.
 

Last edited by twkid; 01-04-19 at 10:06 AM.
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Old 01-04-19, 10:53 AM
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Congrats, good to hear everything worked out. Take a rest and enjoy the fruits of your labor for a while before plunging headlong into another project.

Just for your own info those electric valves as you call them are I believe are Honeywell Zone Valves. They are connected to your stat. On a call for heat the stat sends a signal for the ZV to open and when it opens it makes an end switch on the ZV and through the other 2 wires sends a signal to the boiler to come on.

Those valves stop the heat from going where it's not wanted. Those levers that you mentioned on the ZV's should be on AUTO. If you put them on manual the valve will stay open all the time and no matter what stat calls for heat that zone will get it too. Something to remember if a stat or ZV craps out until you can get it fixed.

Thanks for the update.
 

Last edited by spott; 01-04-19 at 12:04 PM.
 

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