Problem with multiple zone hydronic system

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  #1  
Old 01-26-21, 09:58 AM
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Problem with multiple zone hydronic system

Hi folks,

Just curious if you have any ideas here. I have a hot water baseboard heating system with a gas furnace (at least I think it's a furnace. I've literally had one HVAC tech tell me it's a furnace and one tell me it's a boiler, lol). We have 3 zones for the heat, so three separate thermostats. The central air conditioning system is it's own system with one thermostat.

Weird things are happening with the heat and thermostats, though. It's a little odd that it's happening to all 3 thermostats, which might help narrow things down. I could understand if one is acting up, I would just replace the batteries first and then replace the thermostat (which I've done in the past in a previous house). But this time it's a little different. The master bedroom thermostat (thermostat #1) is set to 70, and it's going up to 75. The basement thermostat (#2) is set to 67 and it's only 58 degrees in there. And the living room thermostat (#3) is set to about 70 and it's only about 64. So I'm confused because it's not like they're all low or something, in which case I would guess it's the thermocouple.

Here are some items to note that hopefully will help:

1. I've never replaced the thermocouple in the furnace. The furnace is original, so it's around 35 years old. The thermocouple is "at least" 6 years old, which is as long as I've owned the house. In a previous house I would have to replace the thermocouple every 3-4 years when it would fail. Does this sound like a thermocouple problem? If there's even a hint that it could be, I'll spend the $8 and just replace it to see.

2. All three thermostats were replaced on the same day in Nov 2013 (and I put in the same Honeywell thermostat for all three). I guess all three thermostats could be dying at the same time, but I think that's a stretch. We've also checked and the batteries are ok in all of them (they're not hard-wired).

Any ideas before I call in the Pros?

Thanks!
 
  #2  
Old 01-26-21, 12:25 PM
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JP,
First off you have a boiler. A simple way to remember is a boiler heats water and a furnace heats or cools air. Next, as long as your boiler is running your thermocouple has nothing to do with it. The temp you want in the area is controlled by the t-stat. The boiler and pump should run until the stat is satisfied.

What do you have controling your zones. Circulators or zone valves. Pics of your system may be helpful to see what you have. On the ones that are not getting up to temp you can tie the stat wires together and see what happens. Also pics of the boiler and controls would be helpful..
 
  #3  
Old 01-26-21, 01:22 PM
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As mentioned.... it's not the thermocouple as that only keeps the pilot lit.
With pictures we can help you better.
How-to-insert-pictures.
 
  #4  
Old 01-26-21, 02:18 PM
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Thanks. Correct me if I'm wrong, but i have zone valves. Here are some pictures. Let me know if there is something not pictured that you want me to capture.















 

Last edited by PJmax; 01-26-21 at 06:27 PM. Reason: cropped/resized pics
  #5  
Old 01-26-21, 05:36 PM
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More of the piping, zone valves, pump and control with cover off.
 
  #6  
Old 01-26-21, 06:28 PM
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Yes..... you have three zone valves. I identified the wiring in your picture. It is correct.
 
  #7  
Old 01-26-21, 07:00 PM
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For systems with several zone valves, many problems can be eliminated with modern auto-sensing Grundfos Alpha 2 circulators.

Alpha2 left powered on automatically adjusts to load changes as zone valves open and close. They eliminate need for zone valve end switch wiring and circulator controllers /relays. Simplified wiring easies diagnosics and trouble shooting.

https://www.supplyhouse.com/Grundfos...w-Terminal-Box

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_elAwebxcE

Other circulator companies have not yet developed auto sensing units. Profits rise when development is reduced.

The Jacobus auto vent in picture of boiler have high failure rates and is probably useless. Watts auto-air-vents at $8.29 each installed at high point or each zone ends venting issues:

For more info read Submittal Sheet: https://www.supplyhouse.com/Watts-05...Vent-3679000-p
 

Last edited by doughess; 01-26-21 at 07:17 PM.
  #8  
Old 01-27-21, 06:37 AM
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Thanks for the feedback. I just kind of went crazy and took a bunch more pics. I "think" I circled the pump in red. That's the pump, right? Not sure what the "control" is that you mentioned. I also replaced all batteries with fresh ones and "fixed" all of the programming. When I scrolled through the programs, there were certain times/days that were completely "blank", meaning there was no temp selected. I doubt that makes a difference though.

One thing I noticed is that each pipe and zone has a spigot with a shutoff. Refer to the picture with all of the yellow arrows. Each one seems to drip every so often because they each show signs of dripping below them. One spigot has a "cap" screwed on it, but still shows signs of dripping through the cap. That's the zone for the basement where I can't get the "call" for heat to come on at all. I even tried a replacement thermostat. It's set on 70, but is only around 60. The one pipe for that zone (not sure if it's "coming" or "going") is cold, and the other pipe is hot. I doubt that spigot cap is causing a problem, but just wanted to mention it.

A little bit of extra info:

1. For the master bedroom, it doesn't seem to want to stop. It's showing 75 degrees, but only set on 68. Complete opposite of the basement where it just won't come on. Crazy.

2. One zone valve has a silver plate, and the other two do not. You'll see the picture below.

3. One zone valve has some rust between terminals. Can that cause the zone valve to "short"? It's pictured below.














This is definitely not the zone for the basement where the heat won't come on, so it's either the master bedroom level where the heat won't stop, or the other zone which just seems to be around 67 when set to 70. Could this zone valve be "shorting" if there's rust between the two terminals, causing the heat to not stop pouring out in the master bedroom?




This was the only zone valve that had this metal plate. The other two zone valves don't have them.
 

Last edited by PJmax; 01-27-21 at 12:38 PM. Reason: resized pics
  #9  
Old 01-27-21, 08:01 AM
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First issue is boiler pressuge reading is too high, 12 psi is normal. The majority of boiler pressure gauges are defective or inaccurate.DIY post by NJT on 02-09-12 is a must read on How to verify a boiler pressure gauge

https://www.doityourself.com/forum/b...ure-gauge.html

Would not recommend removing original gauge during heating season. Install a second, easy to read gauge beyond regulator. I have second 4” gauge to adjust regulator.

Pump is thing in red circle. Helps to wire a small 120 volt pilot light on it to see when activated.

Modern 7 day programable thermostats save on heating costs and make home more comfortible. Highly recommened reading manual and seting it up. Most have a canned EPA program and temperates/period can be changed.
 

Last edited by doughess; 01-27-21 at 09:24 AM.
  #10  
Old 01-27-21, 10:24 AM
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J,
Your zone valves look a little weather beaten. The one with the plate, without seeing the top might just be a newer model.

At this point all I can suggest is turn one stat up at a time and see which ZV opensif you are not sure. On the ZV there is a silver lever that is for manual operation. You have one diagram where the pipe is cold and a section is hot. My guess is the hot section is the supply and the ZV may not be opening to let the water flow through back to the boiler.

You can pull that lever down and see if the valve opens and the rest of the pipe gets hot. First thing I would do is trace the pipes and mark the zone valves so you know which one goes with which stat. The one that you doon't think shuts off, what you can do is check the tension of the silver lever. When the stat is not calling for heat the lever will have some tension on it. Although it will be in the up position at all times if it is not calling for heat it will have tension. If the stat is calling there will be no tension on the lever and you should be able to just push it down easily and the water should be hot on both sides.

One thing to look for on the body of the ZV is an arrow. Make sure that is going in the direction of the water flow. If the ZV's are on the suuply pipe the arrow should be going away from the boiler. On the return it should be going towards the boiler.

That blue thing is your pump but is missing the cover. If you put the stats in yourself you can remove one and jump the 2 wires together and that should open the zone valve. It's only 24V so nothing will happen, it's not dangerous. If you do this and the valve opens and the boiler comes on then you have a problem with your stat.

That control I mentioned is your grey box. If you take the cover off you should see TT where your stat wires are connected. If you take some needle nose pliers and jump those TT terminals the boiler and pump should start. If that happens your problem is the stat or the zone valve.

If you have a meter and know how to use it see if you have 24V at the t-stat. If none of the ZV's are working you may have a bad transformer. You will have to follow the wires or post more pics and pull back a little so everything shows.

Hope this helps a little.
 
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Old 01-27-21, 11:50 AM
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Thanks again for taking the time to read through my post and thousands of pictures, and for your responses. Really appreciate it. Itís gotten to the point where I think the solution is beyond my skill set, so I called in the hvac guy. He said the ZV for the basement isnít working right, and thatís why the basement is cold. He also said the ZV for the bedrooms is also bad, which is why the heat wonít stop there. The third ZV seems to be working ok, but itís the one that looks the worst. So heís going to give me an estimate to replace all three. He also recommended replacing the expansion tank and the gold little piece right before it (I forget what itís called....itís pictured below). He said that little piece is an old design and he recommended replacing it if weíre doing the expansion tank. The tank is also upside down, so it seems that part of the estimate is to redo some of the piping and install it the right way. As for the pressure on that meter, I think once he moved one of the ZVs to ďmanualĒ the pressure dropped, so he thinks the meter is ok. Itís tough though because I just paid $160 for him to walk in the door, and Iím guessing the estimate will be around $700, and I could probably do some of it myself (especially if the ZVs are just ďplug and playĒ). Also pictured below is the box you spoke about. Hmm, one day would love to get a wire from the unit to the thermostats so I can run them on power rather than stupid batteries lol.



 
  #12  
Old 01-27-21, 12:53 PM
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As spott mentioned.... there is a slide bar where you can manually open the valve.
It stays in the auto position.

To check and see if the valve is open..... slide it towards open/on.
If it's stiff to move..... the valve was closed and is now opening.
If it moves easily..... the valve is open.

 
  #13  
Old 01-27-21, 01:00 PM
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The boiler pressure 28 psi is too high, 12 psi is standard for most homes. The majority of boiler pressure gauges are defective or inaccurate.

DIY post by NJT on 02-09-12 is a must read on How to verify a boiler pressure gauge

https://www.doityourself.com/forum/b...ure-gauge.html

Installing a second, easy to read gauge is good practice. I have second 4” easy to read one near pressure regulator.

From pictures do not see a pressure regulator. Blue handle globe valve in picture, above red shut off switch is probably water feed valve. It may be leaking causing pressure rise. Would replace with ball valve and add regulator. Add ball valve on boiler side to remove for service while keeping system in operation.

https://www.supplyhouse.com/sh/control/search/~SEARCH_STRING=1/2"%20watts%201156f%20feed%20water%20pressure%20regulators?searchText=1%2F2"+watts+1156f+feed+water+pressure+regulators

Modern 7 day programable thermostats save on heating cost an make home more comfortible. Highly recommened reading manual and seting it up. Most have a canned program and temperates/period can be changed.
 

Last edited by doughess; 01-27-21 at 01:51 PM.
  #14  
Old 01-27-21, 03:22 PM
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It is up to you but although the tank is upside down it can be installed that way and that piece he wants to replace is still made. It's just a different way of feeding the system but as long as you have steady pressure it is working fine unless he sees something that we don't.

As far as the ZV heads go you can get them at the sight below and put them in yourself.

https://www.supplyhouse.com/Zone-Valves-Controls-324000

You can do the job yourself for about 250. and that is if you replaced all 3 heads. With just replacing the heads there is nothing to drain. Just a thought.

It's up to you but it's just a thought.
 
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Old 01-27-21, 03:53 PM
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The batteries on modern electronic thermostats are for back up when 24 VAC power to C and Rh is not there. Solution is simple, run 2 wire from 24 VAC terminals on transformer by power switch to C and Rh.

JP - Before messing with thermostats and zone valves get the basics right. Water pressure at 12 psi and automaticaly vented zones. Then deal with issues separately on each zone.

For more info on auto vents read Submittal Sheet: https://www.supplyhouse.com/Watts-05...Vent-3679000-p

Expansion tanks with 1/2" ball valve on nipple make it easier to depressurize system. I mount tanks with nipple at bottom to keep debris out of tanks, and prolong life of diaphragm.
 
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Old 01-27-21, 06:29 PM
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The brass piece below the tank appears to be a Fill-Trol. In order for them to work, you must use a tank made for the Fill-Trol. An ordinary tank will not work. The Fill-Trol operates off of the air pressure in the tank via a metal 'stirrup' in the pipe thread end of the tank. Regular tanks to not have that metal 'stirrup'.
 
  #17  
Old 01-27-21, 08:54 PM
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Filtrol tanks cost $60+, others are $30+ https://www.supplyhouse.com/Expansion-Tanks-353000

Install 1/2Ē shut off valve in pipe underneath that assembly to simplify depressurization. If Filtrol goes bad just remove assembly and use $30 tank.
 
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Old 01-27-21, 09:16 PM
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Thanks guys. Regarding me replacing the zone valves on my own, my current valves say Model #555-102. Just looking at Home Depotís website real quick I see that you can buy just the head for $100 and itís Model #555-050RP. Does this look like the right replacement or are there other specifications that need to be compared?

Link to Home Depotís valve
 
  #19  
Old 01-27-21, 10:23 PM
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Honeywell $70 zone valves are better than $100 Taco's heads. Honeywell's have manual operation lever. Power head can be easily replaced without opening system. Have 8 on system, used them for 50 years

Supplyhouse has cheap next day delivery in northeast.

https://www.supplyhouse.com/Honeywel...Terminal-Block
 
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Old 01-27-21, 10:29 PM
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I wouldn't randomly replace motors without testing the valves. Did you determine they are bad ?
It would be foolish to buy the motor if the valve were bad.
 
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Old 01-28-21, 04:46 AM
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I wouldn't randomly replace motors without testing the valves. Did you determine they are bad ?
It would be foolish to buy the motor if the valve were bad.
Let me make sure Iím getting the terminology right before I reply. When you say motor, is that the part of the ZV that you can twist and remove? And the part that is still soldered in-line with the piping is the valve?

The technician was determining which zone valves were bad based on the fact that there was a call for heat from the thermostat but the heat wasnít coming out from that zone. Iím not 100% sure, but he may have tested them also with a voltmeter.
 
  #22  
Old 01-28-21, 07:42 AM
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A multi-hour test.
How does the system perform if you turn two of the thermostats down to 50 and the third up to 75 degrees for at least 3 hours? Repeat the test with each thermostat in turn set to 75. In each case the boiler should cycle on and off to keep the boiler temperature at its normal level around 180 or so. Check the radiators for being hot or cool.

Separate tests:\
Are the zone valves all the same so you can swap the parts among the zones? This should verify a bad zone valve since I highly doubt that all three would have failed in the same manner. When exchanging zone valve partss, exchange the wires also so that the same set of wires remains associated with the same valve docking bracket (and zone loop). Label wires before unhooking them. (Did your technician already try this?)

More separate tests:
Does the room temperature track the thermostat temperature in a consistent and predicable manner? For example when you set the thermostat to 70 and the room gets to 64 only then if you set the thermostat to 75 does the room get to 69?

In my context the motor is the circulator or pump, soldered into the pipework away from the zone valve (or attached using nipples, elbows, etc. requiring wrenches to disassemble). The zone valve is the platform on which the twist on part fits and the term sometimes refers also to the combined twist on part and platform. The term power head has also been used to refer to the twist on part alone. There is a second kind of valve, a check valve, soldered into the piping and without electrical connections or manual adjustments. Not all system have check valves for each zone.
 

Last edited by AllanJ; 01-28-21 at 08:35 AM.
  #23  
Old 01-28-21, 08:28 AM
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Let's make this simple. Put 24 volts on zone valve, then activate circulator.
If pipes and valve gets hot it is open. If not hot, fix or replace it.
 
  #24  
Old 01-28-21, 10:45 AM
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I gave a quick test back in post 9. Very simple.
If the thermostat is turned up.... the valve should be open.
Yes..... there is the valve and there is the motor or actuator.
 
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Old 01-28-21, 12:08 PM
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Putting 24 volts directly on valve eliminates possible issues with wiring and thermostat. Not the same, just adds to links in chain.
 
  #26  
Old 01-28-21, 01:59 PM
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J,
In post #14 you will see a sight where the zone valves are much cheaper than HD. and the service is quick and you can call them with any questions.

Unless I misunderstood the guy was just going to replace the heads but as PJ mentioned make sure the bodies are good before just purchasing the heads.

As I previously mentioned you can pull the silver manual lever down and if the hot water flows through and you get heat then the bodies are good or if you want to double check since you do have one that works you can exchange that head with one that doesn't and see if the faulty zone works.

If the body has to be changed, although you will have to buy the whole valve you can just change the guts without unsoldering the valves so that is also something you can do yourself.

As far as the different brands between Honeywell and Taco it is all a matter of preference. There is no easier valve to work on than the Taco. It also has a manual lever and with a quarter turn the head comes right off. Different parts of the country use different brands. Taco is made in Rhode Island which is right over the line in my area so we see very few Honeywells or other brands.but it's what you're used to and whatever works for you.

As far as your expansion tank goes Grady is right on point. That Filltrol and tank are a set so to speak. Pretty expensive to replace so make sure it's defective and not something he wants to do for future maintenence reasons.

If he got 160 just to come to the house without doing anything that 700 will look like pocket change when he gets through .

I didn't look at the pressure but if it is 28 psi, that is a little high just open up a valve and let a little water out to about 18-20 psi and see if it holds there. If it stays fairly steady your Filtrol and tank are most likely good.
 
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Old 01-29-21, 10:25 AM
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If the body has to be changed, although you will have to buy the whole valve you can just change the guts without unsoldering the valves so that is also something you can do yourself.
Can you elaborate on this? Is that a pretty ďsimpleĒ repair if you have to change the ďgutsĒ of the valve? Do you have to mess with pressures, bleeding, etc? Iíve tried a few things you guys have mentioned, especially in the basement where thereís no heat, and Iím thinking itís more than just the head, but also the valve thatís bad (at least for that zone).

One more stupid question: the water goes from the boiler through the zone valve, then through the room, then back through the return pipe into the boiler again, correct? The reason I ask is because in the basement, the pipe leading to the zone valve is lukewarm, and the return pipe is blazing hot. So is the theory here that the zone valve is blocking the water from coming through, and the reason the return pipe is blazing hot is because itís mixing with the other returns that are working?
 
  #28  
Old 01-29-21, 12:42 PM
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This tread starting issue is temperature difference in rooms on various zones. That may be due to room heat loss or flow rates.

Return pipe to boiler on multizone system gets hot when flow from any zone valves are open. That is normal, not backflow.

With only one circulator inadaquate flow might be issue. Would remove it and check It first. Sometimes circulator ports get blocked or impeller has issues.

Adding isolation valves on either side of pump makes servicing easier.
 
  #29  
Old 01-29-21, 05:08 PM
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Did you try the manual levers yet to see if the water flows through the ZV with the lever down. If the water goes through with the lever pulled down then the plunger in the valvee is working and your concern is most likely in the head. Did you try switching the good head with a bad one and see if the bad zone works. A little labor on your part but better than spending money needlessly.

Changing the guts is not that big a deal if you have isolation valves on each zone and a lot easier than removing the whole valve if you're not used to soldering. Depending where your shutoffs are depends if a lot of bleeding must be done but either way it's easier than replacing the ZV's.
 
  #30  
Old 01-29-21, 05:45 PM
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Well, for the time being Iím just focusing on the basement because itís the one thatís not working ďthe mostĒ haha (since thereís no heat). I moved the ZV lever but nothing really happened. Youíll see the picture below is of the basement ZV. Pipe #1 is luke warm. Pipe #2 is also luke warm, even less that #1. Pipe #3 is very hot and then not hot at all. When I moved the lever to the OPEN position and nothing changed. SO, I bought a new head just to try it out. Hooked it up in that same pictured position and nothing happened. Exact same results. So Iím assuming that means the ďgutsĒ are bad. Unless you see them in some of the previous pictures, I unfortunately donít think I have isolation valves. (As a side note, I would have thought the arrow on the ZV would have been going the other way as opposed to the way itís pictured because I thought it controls what goes into the room. But I guess Iím not following that correctly).

The technician came back today and was just going to get everything running a little better but couldnít stay for the whole job. But the two zones were ďsort ofĒ working, so he wound up not doing anything. He actually recommended installing a new boiler for $7000. He said the existing setup is terrible and very hard to service, which will cost me more in service hours. Itís also over 30 years old, so he thinks Iím just going to keep nickel and dimeíing, so his recommendations was to replace (but obviously they would still repair for ~$1000 if I wanted). Decisions decisions!
 
  #31  
Old 01-29-21, 09:20 PM
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JP: Your problem is with hydronic system that delivers heat, not boiler heat output.

JP's pro has demonstrated his failure to find and fix problem. Maybe it is time for a reality check.

DH can affford pro's but 50 years ago, when they could not fix problem, became a DIYer.

DH 1957 boiler on coldest days runs 33% of time, at 86% efficiency, Would replace only if it developed unrepaireable leaks. New boilers are harder clean and maintain efficiency and have shorter lives.

JP system has auto-air-vent on pipe rising out of boiler. Vent is probably capped off because it developed leaks.That location will not effectively vent system. Every system needs continual venting. Installing auto vents on JP zones will eliminte one possible source of problem for $8.29 each.
 
CircuitBreaker voted this post useful.

Last edited by doughess; 01-29-21 at 10:12 PM.
  #32  
Old 01-30-21, 06:24 PM
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Thanks doughess!

Just realized I never added the photo to post #30 either. Here it is....



 
  #33  
Old 02-01-21, 12:26 PM
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Is the manual valve halfway down pipe #2 and next to the door jamb open?

I say that the time is not right to go install a new boiler for $7000. or whatever.
 
  #34  
Old 02-01-21, 02:08 PM
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As suggested, I would go through an evaluate each valve independently. Some things to note with the zones valves:
  1. there is a time delay for the valve to open. On a call for heat, the valve receives a signal to begin to open; I think its like 90s or something like that. After those 90s, the valve is open and sends a signal to the boiler to turn on circulator and fire (if needed).
  2. Those valves can be found on both the supply or the return side (ie, before or after the radiators).

To test, I would use the thermostats to activate each zone (unless you are comfortable connecting a 24V transformer directly to the valves).
  1. Turn on heat in zone 1 at thermostat. Go to your boiler room and monitor the valve and the circulator pump. After a few minutes, the valve should open and the circulator should engage. The circ. will hum or slightly vibrate. Touch both sides of the zone valve liens to evaluate if it is opening.
    1. If it works, turn off heat call at the thermostat and evaluate the valve for closing and shutting down
    2. If it doesnt work; lets test the two wires coming from the thermostat to the zone valve with a multimeter; does it supply 24V on a call for heat?
      1. If yes, then after a few minutes, when the valve has had more than enough time to open, test the end switch of the valve (the middle terminal and the 3 terminal that goes to the boiler. It should now have 24V. If not, the end switch in the motor head is defective or a wire (unlikely) is lose from your boiler to the zone valve.
      2. If no, its wiring at your stats, power to your stat, or a broken stat

  2. Repeat step 1 for each zone.
If zones to not work, evaluate the voltage and try reseating some of the wires at the valve motor (they looked quite corroded). If they still dont work, consider taking a working valve motor from a good zone and evaluating the bad zone as described in step 1. This will allow you to determine if the valve itself is stuck or broken or if the motor is just shot (which are two very different repairs).

If I were to guess, I would say the motor heads were shot. One zone was stock open, the other was stuck closed.

I would focus on sorting out the zone valves before considering the tank change. First check is to definitely knock on your expansion tank, is it full of water? Your tech should have done this first. After that, there are several other trouble shooting steps to check out.

Youtube videos on both the zone valves and the expansion tank will be very helpful for you here. (search taco 3 wire zone valves and boiler expansion tank)
 
  #35  
Old 02-01-21, 07:12 PM
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Titles i.e.”Problem with multiple thermostats” and opening comments often color and misslead things. A better title might be “Problem with multiple zone system”

In numerous posts one item not mentioned was that little circulator. Here is a brief history.

Seventy years ago in early days of hydronic one zone heating systems, high capacity Bell-Gossett Series 100 circulators were widely used

https://www.supplyhouse.com/Bell-Gos...Pump-3540000-p

Next came multi circulator zone systems, using smaller TACO 007 with 50% less capacity of B&G 100's.

Next generation was system with zone valves and only one low GPM capacity Taco 007. Often more zones were added without considering circulator capacity to handle load.

In today's home with multiple thermostats, zone valves, controllers various issue arise that may or may not be related.

DH system evolved from one zone to 8 zone valves. The elements are each fed from diverter /monoflow tee's where good flow is critical. Had issues with thermostats and zone valves, but never simultaneouslt with several of the 8 zones.

After 40 years, my original B&G 100 went, replaced it with Grundfos Alpha2.
https://www.supplyhouse.com/Grundfos...w-Terminal-Box
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_elAwebxcE

JP's system operation performance would improved with a modern high capacity, auto senesing circulator. It might also be a way to reduce costs for heating professionals....?
 

Last edited by doughess; 02-01-21 at 08:09 PM.
  #36  
Old 02-03-21, 04:24 PM
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So the saga continues....

At this point, the repairman is coming next Wednesday. The heat wonít stop pouring out in the master bedroom. Itís currently 80į. Putting the valve on Open or Auto doesnít do anything. Do you think itís OK to shut off the boiler (with the emergency switch) for the time being? Will that affect anything else? And then if it cools down they can throw it back on? The pilot light will still stay on right?
 

Last edited by John Palatzo; 02-03-21 at 05:04 PM.
  #37  
Old 02-03-21, 08:10 PM
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Because there is not isolation valves for expansion tanks and zones system must be shut down for repair.

Replacing that zone valve is simple plumbing job with isolation.

A quick fix might be to remove head and partically close valve.

Taco installations instructions have some interesting points.
https://s3.amazonaws.com/s3.supplyho...structions.pdf
 

Last edited by doughess; 02-03-21 at 09:02 PM.
  #38  
Old 02-04-21, 09:22 AM
J
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Is the manual valve halfway down pipe #2 and next to the door jamb open?

I say that the time is not right to go install a new boiler for $7000. or whatever.
AllanJ:
Sorry, I missed your reply. That spigot is closed. It had been dripping a while ago so I tried tightening it even more and put a cap on the end of the spigot. That doesn't appear to be a shutoff valve for the pipes, though. It appears to just be for removing water or bleeding the system. I'm making that up and guessing, though.....does that sound correct?
 
  #39  
Old 02-04-21, 02:00 PM
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John,
First off your problems have nothing that a new boiler will solve. Your boiler is obviously working because it's putting out hot water. They are just trying to sell you something you don't need at this point.

Is the bedroom heat coming from the zone valve that is pictured. If so see if there is any tension on the lever. If there is no tension that means the stat is calling for heat and if you cannot shut the zone valve off by turning the stat down then disconnect a wire at the stat and see if that shuts it down. If it doesn't disconnect the top wire or the #1 wire on the zone valve and see if that shuts it down. When it's shut down there should be tension on the zone valve and the heat should stop. There is a slight delay with Taco so be patient.

If the ZV shuts off when you disconnect the #1 wire and not with the stat being disconnected then you have a bad stat or a short in the wiring from the stat to the ZV.

As far as the other zones go not heating. See if the water is hot before the ZV's and what the temp is after the ZV's. If the water is cooler and the lever has tension you can try what was described before. If the levers have no tension but you are not getting much heat you may have gotten air in the zones slowing down or stopping the flow of the water in those zones which could be solved by bleeding the air from the zones.

The ARROW on the zone valves should be point in the direction of the water flow. If the ZV's are on the SUPPLY they should be pointing AWAY from the boiler. If on the RETURN, pointing Towards the boiler.
 
  #40  
Old 02-07-21, 09:24 PM
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Basics of hydronic heating are circulating air free water at X gpm, Y delta-T to remove Z BTU s.

While JP gauge shows 175F water other posts show no assurance system is vented, verification of flow and delta-T data of zones.

Without the basics things are uncertain.

If this was DH system would install Watts auto vents and remove circulator to inspect ports and impeller.

Next would measure delta-T of zones with Dual-Sensing-Digital-Probe-Thermometer. Typically should be 20F to 30F.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/CDN-Dual-Se...8AAOSwDuxcFQGQ
 

Last edited by doughess; 02-07-21 at 09:51 PM.
 

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