Beckett injector intermittently not firing/ Taco rs504 no zones


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Old 03-02-21, 05:17 AM
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Beckett injector intermittently not firing/ Taco rs504 no zones

Long story: Since August, my injector has been intermittently not catching (it tries to fire and then shuts off). The green light on the injector controller is flashing and I have to reset. It has always fired after resetting it - usually on the first try. Maybe once or twice, I have had to reset it a second time. My service company wanted to replace the CAD cell at a cost of $700 even though it ohmed out good. I replaced it myself by getting the cell and doing it myself ($53!).

Last night, the injector went into fault. I reset it and it fired. About 15 seconds later, it stopped. It had faulted (flashing light on injector control box). I reset it again and it fired. When I looked at the Taco rs504, it was only calling for Hot water (Zone 4) and not the onther 3 zones. I know the other 3 thermostats were calling for heat and one of the zones has an air handler that was running. I can not figure out why the other zone's LEDs weren't active (red) and being called for. I have the Taco rs504 set for HW priority but why weren't the LEDs calling for it?

So where do I go from here? I have a call into the service company and I am sure when they call back they are going to say it is the CAD cell which I am going to tell them that I already replaced it. What is causing this fault in the injector controller to keep it from firing? It is an oil burning boiler and it was serviced/cleaned in November. Is the injector bad? Wouldn't they have seen that when they cleaned it? I am not looking forward to the service company guessing on what needs to replaced next as the CAD cell was their guess (at $700). If I had them do that instead of doing it myself, I would have been pissed!! Thanks for any help with this!
 
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Old 03-02-21, 11:27 AM
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p,
First off by shutting the boiler down after 15 sec. istelling you your cad cell is working and if you had the same problem the first time you called your service co. it wasn't your cad cell then either. Your cad cells job is to shut the boiler down if it doesn't see light or fire within the aloted time of the primary control that's installed.

Primary controls come with different safety times to light the boiler. Another words you can get 15, 30, or 45 sec controls before the cad cell will shut the boiler down. You must have the 15 sec. one which is fine.

What is happening is one of your zones calls for heat and your boiler fires up. Your motor comes on which has a coupling connected to the oil pump to deliver oil to the nozzle and the ignitor, the black box on top of the burner that your cad cell is attached to send voltage to the electrodes which sends a spark to the electrode tips and ignites the oil spray coming from the nozzle.

If you had this serviced in Nov. the nozzle and oil filter and possibly the pump screen should have been changed or the screen at least looked at. If you are sure you have oil and no leaks or loose fittings which would be obvious because you would have to keep bleeding your pump if you lost yoour prime then my guess would be your transformer or as they call it today electronic ignitor which is that black box that holds your cad cell is getting weak and they can be inconsistant before they finally die.

When your boiler comes on after you reset it do you get a puff back or an oil smell. If your ignitor is the problem then every time you reset it and it starts but doesn't light oil sprays into the chamber and enough of it can cause a chimney fire so if it doesn't lite after a couple of tries do not keep resetting it.

The last thing it could be if you are getting a good spark is the electrodes themselves. They could need to be changd or may not be set right. They must be set according to spec or they may not light.

By the way, just my opinin or thought about the cad cell quote. For 700.00 you could by stock in the company. I would consider looking for another service co. I know masks are required but that doesn't make robbery legal.

https://www.supplyhouse.com/Westwood...eads-S-Bracket

https://www.supplyhouse.com/Westwood-Products-E81-Cad-Cell-Eye

https://www.supplyhouse.com/Beckett-51838U-Electronic-Oil-Igniter?gclid=Cj0KCQiA4feBBhC9ARIsABp_nbURHS7CyDsSO-VK4DTD_ozlhawMDmsNg-Qy2Zu70kI9dsca1WWExOMaAoPkEALw_wcB

If you type in electronic oil ignitors more choices will come up in case you do not have a Beckett burner.

The above come from the sight called SupplyHouse.com where you can type in cad cell or click on heating and check out whatever you may need. Very good to deal with and fast service. You can call them with any questions .

Hope this helps a little.
 
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Old 03-02-21, 08:25 PM
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Thanks so much for all of the information. I get no puff back or oil smell. It seems to catch.

Do you think that changing the electronic ignitor is a job that a home owner can do? I am an electrical engineer and worked in field service for many years on semiconductor machinery so I am not scared of changing out parts. But is it a horrible messy job or dangerous if I screw it up?

Also, I called my service company and left a message that the service manager needs to call me. I explained that they wanted to charge me $700 to fix a problem. I changed the part myself and I still have the problem. If I had them change the part and still had the problem I would be pissed. Told the person taking the message that I need them to call me to explain why I am still having a problem.

I will look up the electronic ignitor and see if I can find the one for my furnace.

Again thanks so much for your help. I really appreciate it!
 
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Old 03-03-21, 10:07 AM
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Is the burner firing when the primary trips? Or has the flame gone out?
 
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Old 03-03-21, 11:40 AM
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p,
Can you post pics of your burner. Is it a Beckett. I posted a sight with your ignitor. That is something you can easily do your self.

Post the pic of the part you changed. If it was the cad cell eye then the ignitor or ignition transformer which is the same thing is the part the eye is connected to.

Shut the service switch off, disconnect 2 wires and then the 2 screws holdind it to the base and replace. There is no polarity so it doesn't make a difference which wires are hot and common. It is about 17,000 volts but little amperage so if you touch it after by mistake you'll get a little jolt but you'll still be around. I'm only telling you because your in the field.

If you want to check it first, if it's a Becket, loosen the screws and lift it up exposing the 2 springs. You will nee a screwdriver to test the spark.

With the ignitor open and springs exposed pur a cloth over the cad cell eye so it doesn't see light then turn on the power so the boiler calls for heat. When the burner comes on with the metal part of the screwdriver place the screwdriver on one of the springs and draw it across to see how long an arch you get. You should get at least 3/4". If you get less or almost nothing then it should be replaced which you can do yourself.

If you are getting a good spark then it could be your electrodes might not be set right which the tech can check if he comes back.

Hope this helps a little.
 
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Old 03-03-21, 12:14 PM
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Regarding the LEDs on the Taco 504: It is most likely set up for domestic hot water priority. If there is a call for domestic hot water, it won't allow the space heating circuits to operate until the call for domestic is satisfied.
 
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Old 03-03-21, 03:25 PM
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I have no idea if the flame went out or not. I know that I hear it start up and then it usually catches on the first reset. Sometimes (not often) I have to hit the reset a second time. I believe my ignitor electronics has a lockout and then I have to hodl the buttom for 45 seconds in order to try to reset again?? I am going from memory.

How do I know if it flames?
 
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Old 03-03-21, 03:39 PM
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Here are some photos. I can't figure out which electronic ignitor to buy as the picture says two different replacement part numbers!!! UGH!







 
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Old 03-03-21, 03:42 PM
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Grady- will the LEDs for those zone not light up? I thought that those zones would at least look like they are calling for heat but the valves wouldn't allow the hot water to go to the radiant flooring, the h/e in the air handler/ baseboards?
 
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Old 03-03-21, 03:52 PM
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I can easily do the spark with the screwdriver. I can just pull the CAD cell out of the plug as it comes right off so it won't detect a spark. I watched a couple of videos and honestly, it does seem a snap to change it.

When I restart it, won't the nozzle spray some oil into the combustion chamber? Will I need to be careful once I change out the electronic ignitor and retry that there isn't too much oil in the chamber. Funny- as an electrical engineer, I am not worried about the voltage shocking me- but I am worried about having too much oil in the combustion chamber and causing a fire!!!

Speaking of too much oil in the combustion chamber, how exactly do you get rid of too much oil if you have hit the reset button more than 2 times?

Lastly, how do I figure out what electrodes to order. I will be damned if I ask those robbers who service my furnace to buy the electrodes! I might have to give them an arm or a leg or one of my children to afford their price for changing out the electrodes. Can you imagine? $700 for a CAD cell- which literally took me 1 minute to change. It took me longer to go to Aubuchon to pick up the part.

The best part of dealing with the service people who come to my house is when I tell them what I think is wrong in technical terms. They are always like "why is this middle age woman telling me that the relay is not turning on" or "How does she know how to measure the resistance on the CAD cell" They think I am cra- cra.
 
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Old 03-03-21, 04:20 PM
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You can hear the rumble of the burner when it’s lit. Vs when there isn’t a flame.
 
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Old 03-03-21, 04:28 PM
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https://www.supplyhouse.com/Beckett-...YaAoNuEALw_wcB

https://www.beckettcorp.com/support/parts/

The top sight is the ignitor you need. The next sight you may find interesting about your burner. You have the NX burner according to your pics.

The only way to get rid of excess oil in the chamber is to let it burn off. The short time you will be testing will have little to no effect on excess oil so don't worry about it. Covering the cad cell eye is not to protect it from the spark but to keep it from seeing light. If the eye senses light it will not start. It thinks there is a fire in the chamber and is not safe to start. If you feel really brave you can disconnect the burner motor wire so just the ignitor gets power and the motor or oil will not run.
 
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Old 03-03-21, 06:01 PM
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When was the last time the burner was serviced? As in nozzle, filter, and strainer?
There’s a very good chance there’s nothing wrong with the transformer. I wouldn’t replace anything without testing first.
 
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Old 03-03-21, 06:47 PM
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I had the furnace cleaned/serviced in early November. At that time, I told them that when I came back from summer vacation in Septmeber, the furnace had gone into fault and had to be reset- discovered it when there was no hot water. They said that it had been about 18 months since servicing due to Covid and a reschedule and probably just needed cleaning caused the fault.

Since November, there have been 3 incidents since then. One in early January, one February 17th and then one 2 days ago. Seems to be happening more frequently.
 
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Old 03-04-21, 08:54 AM
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Diagnosing Pucci1067 boiler/burner issues would be easier after installing with modern control $65 which displays CAD cell resistance when firing. The current Honeywell L7184P control is old generation without display

Modern Honewell R7284U and Carlin 70200 controllers @ $65 display status while firing and history after shutdown/lockout. Both have menus to change features and work on most burners.

If you buy one, power up 120 vac on bench to learn setup before installing. If current unit get it from aqusatat that wire is still used to limit/start burner and will require additional n burner. Comes with colored wire pigtails to ease connecting. They need 120 VAC at all times to display stautwire for 120. If wiring in burner box is crowded put hollow 4” electric box on top of it.

https://www.supplyhouse.com/Honeywel...ic-Oil-Primary

https://www.supplyhouse.com/Carlin-Combustion-Technology-70200S-Universal-Oil-Primary-
Control-120-VAC

Avoid the Beckett Genisys $70 base Model 7505 which does not display of status or history and has far less features. To change time settings have to buy different model. To see data a display is $70 additional for Beckett Contractor Tool. Many professionals use 7505 to keep homeowners dumb about system and then charge $$$ for data.
 
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Last edited by doughess; 03-04-21 at 11:06 AM.
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Old 03-05-21, 09:27 AM
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Honeywell R7284 Bench Setup

For novice DIYer it may be best, before installing R7284U on boiler to set one up on bench learn about features. Here simple “how to”

Attach spare CAD cell

Attach switch (in OFF postion) to activate control to terminals red LIMIT and black 120 volts.

Jumper T T

Attrach 120 volt power to L1 and L2.

Display status should show STANDBY.

Cover CAD cell window to block room light.

Close Limit switch to activate control.

When display shows IGNITION TRIAL immediately uncover CAD cell.

Display shows RUNNING XXX OHMS.

To stop run, Open switch.

If CAD is exposed or covered when Running it will trigger LOCKOUT.

Then learn how to reset unit, read History, Prime pump, etc.

For a more dynamic setup, attach 120 volt pilot lights to motor, igniter and solenoid terminals.

DH hangs copy of INSTALLATION INSTRUCTIONS on front of boiler with mag clip for future reference
 

Last edited by doughess; 03-05-21 at 12:07 PM.
 

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