I'm adding an Aquapure Scale Filter to my tankless water heater. It's in cramped quarters between a wall and my Air Handler. Relocating the heater a few inches to one side is possible, but of course I'd prefer to leave it where it is.
See Attached Drawing. The Filter must be attached to a vertical pipe, so with the Heater in its current location two 90-degree elbows must be inserted directly into the "T-Fitting" atop the Filter. The distance between the centerline of each elbow and its associated vertical pipe and the centerline of the filter is only 2 1/2". This is depicted in red on the attached drawing.
Will this short distance cause flow problems? If so, I'll have to insert horizontal pipes between the elbows and the filter. If this is necessary, what would the minimum distance between the centerline of the elbows and the centerline of the filter be?
I’m no plumber but I redid my system with multiple filters etc. and when I did my research, I didn’t find anything that said elbows close like you are planning would be bad for flow. Just that – as you probably know – the more fittings the more pressure loss. But I think in your case those two wouldn’t even be measurable in terms of pressure loss. It would be so small.
IMHO a full port valve for the shutoff would be the way to go. They are more reliable than the gate valves.
Just had another thought. Don't know whether it is worth it or applicable in this case, but I put pressure gauges before and after some of my filters. You can tell what the pressure drop across the filter is, and whether the filter needs servicing. But maybe that doesn't apply to your filter and isn't worth the bother. But when you are doing a new install it's not a lot of money or extra work.
A better solution for scale and other water issues is Installing a $37 water filter on feed to both water heater and heating system boiler. low volume so last long time. If installed at "whole house" at water meter, higher volume would require more frequent filter change.
Many hot water system problems result from rust particles from city water mains that cause leaks on valve seats, block coils, etc.
Filter in link beloware best, has clear plastic housings to see status . Some have built in valve for shut off when changing filter. There are many types, this is low cost.
I’m no plumber but I redid my system with multiple filters etc. and when I did my research, I didn’t find anything that said elbows close like you are planning would be bad for flow. Just that – as you probably know – the more fittings the more pressure loss. But I think in your case those two wouldn’t even be measurable in terms of pressure loss. It would be so small.
IMHO a full port valve for the shutoff would be the way to go. They are more reliable than the gate valves.
Just had another thought. Don't know whether it is worth it or applicable in this case, but I put pressure gauges before and after some of my filters. You can tell what the pressure drop across the filter is, and whether the filter needs servicing. But maybe that doesn't apply to your filter and isn't worth the bother. But when you are doing a new install it's not a lot of money or extra work.
Zoesdad Said: "...I put pressure gauges before and after some of my filters."
I've considered pressure gauges for this application and other filters as well. What type/brand did you use, and how did you attach these pressure gauges to the pipes?
Well, I just checked my records and I used Omega-PGM-63L gauges and I can’t believe it, but they were $40 each. I didn’t remember that. I guess I felt a little wealthy then LOL – but not now lol! I’m pretty sure you can get good pressure gauges a lot cheaper than that. Those are stainless steel and can be liquid filled. Probably a big overkill for my system
My pipes are copper. Those Omega gauges I used have male threads – 1/2 inch MIP.
I used a copper tee 3/4 x 3/4 x 1/2 soldered into the main line and then soldered in a short stub piece of 1/2 copper pipe into the 1/2 on the tee. I then soldered a 1/2 female thread copper adapter onto the other end of the short stub that I soldered into the tee.
Then the pressure gauge was just screwed into the female copper adapter using Teflon tape.
I don’t know how pros would do it, maybe not like that – but it’s been OK now for a long time.
Just thought - I probably soldered the female adapter onto the stub and the other end of the stub into the tee at the same time since those 2 joints are pretty close to each other and I think the right way to do it would be to solder both joints at the same time. I wanted to use a short stub.
Gate valve seat washer often fail and leak. In DH 1957 home, when a gate valve failed replaced with modern “full port" ball valves a major improvement.
Above fitting is a simpler way to accomplish your set up. You have the option of screwing your gage directly into the tee. This would mean only soldering the 2 joints. You would then have the option of locating your gage anywhere using brass fittings and an isolation valve for ease of replacement.
Installing two pressure gauges, one on either side of the filter, may not be as helpful as it sounds. You are trying to measure the difference between the two gauges, and the precision of the gauges may be beyond the smaller differential you are trying to measure. That is what Zoesdad was saying. But, you can try it.
A more elegant solution is to use a differential-pressure (dp gauge). But, they are more expensive.
Probably better to just replace the filter cartridge every year or so or when you observe any pressure drop from your hot-water heater.
In Post #2 is filter with clear plastic housings to easily see status of element, making pressure gauges unnecessary.
Water filter of materials that cause scale in link below are best. Filter also reduces shower head clogging Some have built in valve for shut off when changing filter. There are many types, this is low cost. https://www.amazon.com/Pentek-10-Sta...df_B003VT7ERY/
I think you are all missing what an Aqua Pure scale inhibitor exactly is. It is NOT a filter at all. It is a cartridge and venturi tee system that allows phosphate crystals to slowly be dissolved and pass through the venturi to prevent lime, scale and rust build-up. It forms a protective coating on all metal surfaces, to help stop build up against acidity/alkalinity, hardness, chloride and other factors which effect the corrosion of water. You will not see a pressure difference between the inlet and outlet of the cartridge because there is no medium to catch impurities. The Aqua Pure AP-430 system is an effective way to help stop the build up of scale and can be installed any where on the cold water inlet piping to your water heater be it tank or tankless style and in any configuration as long as the stainless tee is facing the correct direction. I put them on each and every one of my tankless installs. Very easy change out of the cartridge. Old screws out, new screws in. Cartridge runs about $35 and saves tons on service.
Last edited by poorplmbr; 03-27-23 at 07:35 AM.
Reason: Spelling
Above fitting is a simpler way to accomplish your set up.
Thanks. Yep – that is the right way. I thought I looked far and wide for a tee like that but couldn’t find one. Maybe my memory is wrong. I just now searched for CxCxF tees and found others also. I probably just searched for “tees” at that time and didn’t see what I needed.
I don’t like to solder 2 joints close together but I think they are OK. Thanks again for the tips. I bought stuff at supply house before. They seem pretty good.
This thread is about scale in water heaters, a common problem that is dealt with by eliminating some materials in water. Solution from $ 37 to $100+ have been posted to deal with scale.
One post also reduces other heating system problems, lowering home owner costs and service/plumber profit.
See Post #2
A better solution for scale and other water issues is Installing a $37 water filter on feed to both water heater and heating system boiler. low volume so last long time https://www.amazon.com/Pentek-10-Sta...df_B003VT7ERY/
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Hi all (again),
I am working on diagnosing a zone valve which appears to be stuck open. Unfortunately for me it is in the house I used to live in and now rent out and although the tenants are good, they have a dog that doesn't like me, so long story short I'm trying to reduce the number of trips over there.
They have reported heat coming in through the baseboards for the last month or so even when the thermostat is set below the temp of the room or just turned off. They stated they swapped the batteries when it started getting too hot in there, and did not notice a change. I checked the thermostat last week which appeared to be working normally. There was 24v between the red and white wires, and I believe 24v showing between white and the screw between the red/white. Red to blank showed 0v. (Pictures attached)
The zone valve in the middle (first floor zone, the one in question) seems to want to stay open if I try to cycle the slider on the bottom to the right (the other two cycle normally back to the left after being pushed to the right).
From what I read here the best troubleshooting method is:
Shut off power to the boiler and see if the valve closes. If it does disconnect yellow zone valve wire and see if it closes, if it does it is likely an issue with the wiring between the t-stat and zone valve. If it does not close it could be the power head has gone bad?
If it seems like it could be the power head can I take the power head off the zone valve to the right (for the basement, which never seems to need to turn on) and swap it, at least for the spring? Is there any reason to try and lube up the connector going into the valve?
How can I tell if the valve itself needs to be replaced?
Anything else worth doing to help troubleshoot?
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[i]Valve in the middle, after I tried cycling it. [/i]
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[i]Valve in the middle is the one in question, the one on the right is rarely if ever used as its in the basement which stays warm enough.[/i]
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[i]Tstat[/i]
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[i]Back of Tstat[/i]
Thanks for any thoughts/insight!!
03-23-23, 07:32 PM
