Footer: cement contractor forgot rebar... now what?


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Old 10-22-05, 09:06 AM
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Footer: cement contractor forgot rebar... now what?

Hello all,

I am building a garage, 24'x22', 1-story, close to Charlotte NC (6" frost line depth).

The concrete crew forgot to put in rebar in the footer when they poured it. ...what should I do?


Building steps for the foundation are:
1. Dig footer. The was about 15" deep on one side, and about 48" deep on the opposite side (took that much digging to find hard ground).
2. Pour footer.
3. Build block wall.
4. Fill block wall with rebar and concrete.
5. Fill space inside block wall with crushed stone.
6. Pour slab.


My questions:
1. Is the rebar important for a one-story garage?
2. Do I make him dig it out and redo the footer?
3. Is there anything I can do to strengthen the already-existing footer?


Any advice is much appreciated... I am gritting my teeth at this stage. Quality of construction is paramount, and missing $100 of rebar (a wild guess at cost) is silly in a $9k foundation.

Many thanks!
 
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Old 10-22-05, 11:00 AM
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Footer: cement contractor forgot rebar... now what?

No footing inspection required? If not, your building in the wrong place. The building inspector should be looking out for you.

How much steel (spacing) and concrete or grout in the foundation wall?

Dick
 
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Old 10-22-05, 11:13 AM
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I don't know much about concrete work but I would suggest that if the strength of the slab is in question you should seek the written advice of an engineer who is licensed in your area to sign off on such projects.
This will be needed if and when you have to go to court.
 
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Old 10-22-05, 11:45 AM
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Thanks for the replies.

I like the idea of getting an engineer's advice. (We already have one from a house foundation inspection when we bought the house.)

Dick: I am not sure I understand your question, but I'll try to answer it: The footer is 16" wide by 15 - 48" deep. The block on top of this will be 1-3 foot tall, 8" block. I do not know the quantity of rebar that should go inside the block.
 
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Old 10-22-05, 02:19 PM
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Footer: cement contractor forgot rebar... now what?

I am having trouble figuring out where you are in the project.

Did you buy a house with a garage footing already in?

You say you have a 16" wide footing for the garage that is at several levels due to the poor soild. What is the thickness of the footing.

According to your list, you have done #1 & #2. You say you will be putting 8" thick block on top the footing and do not know what to use to make up for the mistake. Is this about where you are?

Is the 48" height of block wall acting like a retaining wall or is it backfilled equally on both sides?

Since you got a permit, you must have had some drawings for the contractor to set his price on.

Dick
 
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Old 10-22-05, 03:00 PM
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Dick,

First, thanks for your continued help! Sorry I am a bit unclear ...I am a bit wound up over this!

We bought a house without a garage - just an ordinary back yard. Now we are building a garage.

The first step was to dig and pour a footer. The concrete for the footer has been poured, but no wall has been built. (As you said: steps 1 and 2 are complete.) The block wall will be primarily a retaining wall: about 6-12" will be underground, and ~2-3' will be above ground.

The quote for work includes rebar in the footer. The footer was inspected but my understanding is rebar is not required in the footer.

Basically the guy made a mistake. My main question is what is the best solution? Ignore it; fix it; or dig it out and redo?

(How much work is it to dig it out?)


Many thanks,
Mike
 
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Old 10-22-05, 04:09 PM
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Footer: cement contractor forgot rebar... now what?

Apparently you entered into this project without a real good plan and just had a contractor excavate and put in a footing. The footing was put in according to code for a stem wall, but did not incluse the horizontal steel that was specified. Apparently nothing was said for the vertical steel for the 4' retaining wall. If you had a good plan you would know that there was going to be a retaining wall and the appropriate steel (horizontal AND vertical dowels) to hold the wall in place so it can be a retaining wall. This is not the same as a simple stem wall that only carries a vertical load from the building.

If the wall and footing system cannot act as a retaining wall, it will tilt outward, allowing the soil inside the garage to settle. The settlement will, of course, allow the slab to crack and drain in the wrong direction. The height of the wall is not too great, but it is likely this will happen eventually.

The city should not have issued a permit and allowed you to go ahead, unless all the information was shown on your plans. I say that without knowing how complete your plans were. Garage plans are a dime a dozen, but they only work if you have a proper foundation.

I suggest getting a local designer look at the situation as it is and find the best way to complete the job so you get the most out of your investment. It may be possible to add fill around the garage so the wall would not be retaining soil.

Dick
 
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Old 10-22-05, 04:33 PM
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Dick,

Thanks for the help.

In my defense, I thought the plan was decent. We have a clear plan for the garage, including the foundation. The city accepted the plan for the permit. I realize I know very little of concrete work, and found several concrete companies recommended by Angie's List. I chose not the cheapest (far from!), but the one where the owner seemed the most competent.

The concrete company agreed to dig a footing with rebar, a block wall filled and reinforced with rebar, and pour a slab inside the block wall.

The proposal and price for the concrete work includes the above.

But a mistake was made, I was not quick enough to catch it (I only saw the last bit of the pour and didn't think fast enough to remember the lack of rebar.)

I will review with the concrete company and then my local engineer. I just wanted to get feedback from the combined intelligence of this forum before proceeding on Monday.

Thanks again,
mike
 
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Old 11-04-05, 03:06 PM
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what is the purpose of the crushed stone in the cells? Insulation??
 
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Old 11-04-05, 03:13 PM
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Footer: cement contractor forgot rebar... now what?

I beleive the crushed stone was inside the block walls, not in the block cells.

Crushed rock or other granular material was intended to aid in drainage in the area inside the foundation walls and under the slab. It them creates a more stable soil under the slab.

Dick
 
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Old 11-04-05, 03:22 PM
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re: crushed stone, got it. I'm building a 2 car cement block garage now, also. FYI, it's got 4 #5 horiz rebar in the 8 x 24" footers with 4 vertical pin piles for support and a #5 rebar criss-cross on 10" centers for the slab. (i hate concrete cracks...). Mine is monolithic pour, though, not stem wall.
Another comment i did not understand is "retaining wall". Is there soil built up on the outside of the wall to demand horiz strength?
 
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Old 11-04-05, 03:45 PM
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Footer: cement contractor forgot rebar... now what?

As i understand it, he has a garage floor that is a couple of feet above the surrounding grade. Because of the this, the soil inside the fondation wall plus the weight of the cars put a lateral load on the foundation wall. This makes the foundation wall act like a retaining wall in addition to carrying the wall loads. Non of the loads are very large, but they must be accounted for in the design and construction. This is because the site was not level.

Usually on a level site, you have the choice between a stem wall/ floating slab combination or a monolithic slab with thickend edges. There are advantages to both types of construction. Both can be expected to have some cracks.

Dick
 
 

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