spacing for strips & ON the strips (Siding over brick)


  #1  
Old 08-19-06, 12:49 PM
OldBioStudent
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Question spacing for strips & ON the strips (Siding over brick)

I need to mount 1x3's and plywood on a brick wall. This is NOT brick veneer. I discovered that it's very SOFT. A masonry bit will cut into mortar and brick -- as easily as some WOOD!! That was a surprise.

I returned to the hardware store, to exchange lead anchors for PLASTIC! I could just picture when I pound in the lead anchors, I'd see many cracks and pieces of mortar breaking off.

The 1x3's are vertical, then I'll screw 1/2 plywood to that.
Big QUESTION: How much spacing is needed on the 1x3's and how many boards for a 20 foot width?

If an 8' by 4' sheet weighs 40 lbs and 4 1x3's are used, then 6 anchors each gives a total of 24 anchors to hold the 8x4 sheet.
Is that overkill?
--------------------------------
Someone else asked a related question, and was told to check the city codes.
" The code is a MINIMUM and not what you should use based on common sense."

Well i want the numbers for 60 MPH winds! City code would be nonsense.

OldBioStudent
 
  #2  
Old 08-19-06, 01:16 PM
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spacing for strips & ON the strips

Everything depends on what you are going to do with the plywood beyond looking at it. The weight is immaterial. I am guessing you are putting the sheet on horizontally based on the sketchy information. How thick is the brick wall? - That is the first criteria, but if the wall is older and is still standing, it is probably strong enough.

Codes would not apply to what you are doing unless you call it a sign.

Since you are attaching your wood to a brick wall, the wall would take the main wind load. The only wind load the plywood could see is the suction, which you cannot calculate. If you are trying to engineer things, 50% of the code wind load, which is based on something more than 60 mph. - Just ask Dorothy and Toto.

Just use as many anchors as you are familiar with - they are cheap. Use the anchors designed for mortar and drill the holes in the mortar. Clay brick are extremely variable and can be soft, but still strong. If you are beating in the anchors hard, you have the wrong size hole - anchors usually have the strength developed by length and expansion.

Dick
 
  #3  
Old 08-19-06, 02:11 PM
OldBioStudent
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>How thick is the brick wall?
They are standard bricks, about 3.5 inch

>to a brick wall, the wall would take the main wind load.
I guess the other thread was not relevant. I thought it meant that wind could remove the plywood. Obviously, 4 anchors could allow the wind to strip the plywood off of the wall. But as you say this removal is due to suction, or the penetration of the wind.

>Everything depends on what you are going to do with the plywood.
Within 10 years I'll cover the entire house in external siding. [This brick wall has many spalled areas. NOT SURE ABOUT SPELLING.] I will cover the wall, to paint the same color as the rest, which is a plywood exterior.

The wall is strong, but ugly. If wind only applies to the wall standing, then I just wanna add enough anchors to hold the wood strips in place. Steel or vinyl siding would add some weight, but boards and plywood seems to be the most weight upon each anchor.

>Use the anchors designed for mortar and drill the holes in the mortar.
I asked a guy at the hardware store. Lead anchors seem too hard, so I have maybe 2 choices in plastic. I bought both, and both are designed for 5/16 masonry bit. One has somewhat of a conical shape. The other is more cylindrical and has 6 plastic teeth. When a screw is inserted, the teeth expand out.

Maybe 5/8 plywood is more appropriate. If I used that there's more weight, therefore i should have more anchoring.
Am I wrong to assume this?

OldBioStudent
 
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Old 08-19-06, 10:35 PM
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Why are you screwing plywood to a brick wall?
 
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Old 08-20-06, 08:57 AM
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spacing for strips & ON the strips

To get a good answer, better information is required. I doubt you have a free-standing 4" brick wall, but probably have brick veneer on a wood frame wall.

If you are worried about the weight difference between 1/2" and 5/8" plywood when picking an attachment method and quaktity, you are splitting hairs.

Dick
 
  #6  
Old 08-21-06, 03:13 PM
OldBioStudent
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Arrow Spacing for strips & _ON_ the strips

> I doubt you have a free-standing 4" brick wall
I'm not sure about the terminology. At the back patio, I have a brick exterior 20feet wide and 10 feet high [height varies]. This house is not a "tract home." The front is entirely stone, for the west wall. The east exposure contains the brick exterior, but it's mostly exterior plywood.

From looking in the attic and the wall thicknesses, it looks like a 4" course, then a wood frame holding insulation. Then sheet rock. Since I see 4 inch bricks in the attic, I'm assuming that there are 4 inch bricks from the foundation up to the roof.

>Why are you screwing plywood to a brick wall? [from Tscarborough ]
>Everything depends on what you are going to do with the plywood. [Saturday response]
Within 10 years I'll cover the entire house in external siding. [This brick wall has 10 spalled areas.] I will cover the wall, to paint the same color as the rest.

The wall is strong, but ugly. I'm getting tired of looking at someone else's mistakes. The previous owner painted the wall, then sandblasted the paint off. He grew vines over his mistake [the spalling]. Then i bought the house and ripped the vines out. [i really hate ivy.]

Where the chimney sits, the wall is 25 foot tall. The ugly vines left their "anchor" at 8 foot high and up to 20 foot high. It's nasty to get on a ladder, trying to scrape off these stubborn vine "anchors". They have been 'dead' for 12 years and they STILL HARD TO SCAPE OFF, especially in the mortar. [no exaggeration here.]

So the spalling is really a minor issue to the ugly red and orange, covered by dead vine 'hooks'.

I do not want to anchor plywood DIRECTLY to the bricks. Brevity has a pupose.
-------------------
I'll make the question totally simple: How many concrete anchors for a 8 foot by 4' sheet of plywood?

I know it's not 4 --- and I know it's not 300. :-)

No one answering me here is going to be liable if a tornado rips my plywood off the house. [You knew that already !! ]

OldBioStudent
 
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Old 08-21-06, 03:21 PM
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It's fairly simple. The plywood should be secured at about 8" o.c. around the perimeter of each sheet and no less than 16" o.c. in the field.

If at all possible, I'd try to secure it directly thru the brick into the studs. This would require screws about 6" in length but would preclude the need for concrete anchors. It would also eliminate any possibility of the brick falling.

BTW, the condition you describe IS considered "Brick Veneer". Anytime masonry of any kind is applied over the face of a wood stud wall it is veneer. A single 4" thickness of brick is never considered a "structural" wall.

OTOH, if your brick wall consisted of a double thickness of brick (usually with a space of a few inches between filled with grout and reinforcing steel) then this would be a "structural" masonry wall. Such a wall is sometimes covered on the interior with wood furring and drywall or other finishes.
 
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Old 08-21-06, 05:13 PM
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K.I.S.S., my friend. There is no need for plywood if you are going to side over the brick, which I will admit sounds like a mess. Have you considered just stuccoing the wall? In most areas this is considered masonry, and will allow you to keep your fire rating for insurance purposes, which may or may not be the case if you cover it with plywood and sheeting.
 
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Old 08-21-06, 05:27 PM
OldBioStudent
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Arrow Making some progress; THANKS

OK, that makes sense about the structural wall being a double thickness.
When you say, "in the field" this means the non-perimeter? It sounds like a terminology taken from the farming days, where the fence is the perimeter and all else is "in the field." A vertical 8x4 foot sheet could have a vertical strip at each edge, then 2 strips "in the field," -- since 3 times 16 is 48 inches.
This means 4 strips [1x3's] and each 8 foot long. The spacing of 8 inches means each strip has 12 anchors [96 /8 = 12] so each sheet is held by 48 or more anchors.

>try to secure it directly thru the brick into the studs.
You mean that the studs behind the brick wall must be located. Finding the first one may be tricky. Also the brick wall blends into the chimney/fireplace, in the center of this. At some unknown point there ARE NO STUDS!
But I'm sure there are studs at each end. Hardware stores sell "stud finders." Will that locate studs behind a brick wall?
OldBioStudent
 
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Old 08-21-06, 05:42 PM
OldBioStudent
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Arrow

> Keep it simple .. Have you considered just stuccoing the wall?

If I stucco the entire wall, it would all be for a pro. Which means I won't even do this.[lack of money.] I'd have to just paint the wall before we sell and this is the same MISTAKE that the former owner fell into.

If I cover 90% of it myself, then I can pay a cabinet maker [ a friend ] to finish the chimney part of it.

City codes allow plywood over chimneys

>There is no need for plywood if you are going to side over the brick
I could be completely wrong, but I assume that vinyl or steel siding will attach easier to plywood, than to brick/stucco.

Am i wrong?
 
  #11  
Old 08-21-06, 05:47 PM
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Stucco is very easy to do, though it is hard work.
 

Last edited by twelvepole; 08-27-06 at 06:10 PM. Reason: Extraneous comment removed
  #12  
Old 08-22-06, 04:12 PM
OldBioStudent
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Question I hope you can clear some confusion

You are saying that professional siding companies would rather put siding on an all stucco house than an all plywood house.

Honestly: how is that possible? Can you explain why siding is easier for a stucco surface?
 

Last edited by twelvepole; 08-27-06 at 06:11 PM. Reason: Extraneous comments edited
  #13  
Old 08-22-06, 05:34 PM
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No, I am saying that you should put NOTHING up, and let the siding contractor go over whatever is there already. There is no need for the plywood, so why would you go through the expense and effort to install it?

The stucco was offered as an alternative to the siding.
 

Last edited by twelvepole; 08-27-06 at 06:11 PM. Reason: Extraneous comment edited
 

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