Block/Cinder Wall

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Old 10-29-09, 02:04 AM
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Block/Cinder Wall

I am building a 5 feet block wall. I am using 6x8x16 blocks.

-Footing is about 12 inches deep and 16 inches wide.
-Horizontal Rebar in the footing and every 3 courses.
-Vertical Rebar every 32 inches
-Have sunk 4 inches of the first course of blocks into the foundation and leveled.

Questions:
-How high does vertical rebar need to be and how high does the cavities need to be filled up to for 5 feet wall? Some website recommends only to fill the second to top blocks.
-Can concrete be used to fill the cavities instead of motar?
-Taking me 8 hours to lay 30 blocks. Is there a faster trick to laying these blocks?
-Using string to keep it vertically align and a leveler to keep it horizontally align. Is the string only good to keep it for vertically align.
-Vertical rebar that are not part of the foundation, could it be added after the foundation cure?
-I read in one of the thread that dowels are used. What are dowels used for?

Thank You
 
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Old 11-03-09, 09:49 AM
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Retaining wall?

first off, is it a retaining wall? if so why arent you using 8 in. block, theyre better, more common and probably cheaper. 2nd. I'm not quite sure why you embedded your first course in the footing. was there a leveling problem? the rebar is good.... if its not a retaining wall. if so Id gone every 24 inches. your hor bars sound good. Dowels are the rebar sticking out of your footing. it ties your wall to the footing. 5 foot tall is 7 courses plus a "1/2 hi" if its not a retaining wall, pouring 4 feet is fine, your rebar must be the same height as your grout, grout (concrete) is prefered for pouring your block cells as apposed to mortar. your not apt to get air pockets.
lastly masons build walls from the corners, so if you build a "lead" on each end and pull a line on each course you should be able to throw that wall in no time. build a 3 course lead first when you have it layed to that height place a GOOD 4' level on the wall to see how level you are and adjust your mortar thicknesses appropriately to level it up.example, fatter joints on one end and skinnier on the other. I hope I answered all your questions..good luck
Corey
ps, dont use a "string" to "vertically" align your lead. use a good 4' level. Thats how masons do it and its proven effective
lol I keep finding more questions you asked....
if your "dowels" arent poured into your footing, youll need to rotohammer them in. A salesman will recommend that you blow out the hole and epoxy the bar in. epoxy is acceptable on large construction sites with inspectors.
 
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Old 11-03-09, 10:09 AM
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It is a property wall.

I read several UTube video that they recommend embed several inches of the block into the foundation. Couple of HomeDepot guys told me the same thing too.

When you say you would go every 24 inches, is that vertical rebar.

Thanks for clearing the meaning of dowels because that is what we did. We have it connected to the horizontal rebars in the footing and then it stick out of the foundation. I read your other thread that you recommended this otherwise it will crack and the fall over.

Thanks for the tip on the corner.

I am still confuse about the pouring of the conrete into the holes. Do I fill all holes or only the ones with the rebars?
Some areas, the original contractor did not add vertical rebars. Vertical rebar that are not part of the foundation, could it be added after the foundation cure?

Also, the horizontal rebars for every three courses, does it have to be cut and J joint or can it just be tied to the vertical?

Thank you for your time!
 
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Old 11-03-09, 10:38 AM
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Block/Cinder Wall

Since you are in California, your local building office probably has standard plans/specifications available for the common privacy walls. - That tells you everything you need to know. U-tube is only opinions and not what should be done.

If it is on or near the property line, it must be done right because not all walls fall on the builders property, but they may fall on someone (neighbor/kids) adjacent to you. A wall that stays in one piece and becomes a sidewalk after a little shake is not pretty or inexpensive. You may not have insurance coverage either.

If the wall is 5' high, a 6" thick wall may work if the footing and connection to it is adequate. I know most of the 6' high walls are 8" thick. Your vertical rebar sounds about right and I think the horizontal may be a little much, but the California experiences may have changed things since I last designed there.

Dick
 
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Old 11-03-09, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by WRDIY45 View Post
-Taking me 8 hours to lay 30 blocks. Is there a faster trick to laying these blocks?
Have you looked into dry-stacking the blocks instead of mortaring them? I'm dry-stacking 6x8x16 blocks on my current patio wall foundation which gets as high as 4' from the footing.
The block surface will get a coating of surface bonding cement, such as Quikrete's QuikWall SBC. The block wall will end up stronger than using mortar between them.

Check your local code first. What I'm doing may not be to code. (But once they're done and finished, no one will know....)
 
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Old 11-03-09, 11:43 AM
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First you still have to have the right size/location footing and attach the surface bonded wall adequately to it.

Dry stacking and surface bonding CAN give you a good wall if you do not go too high, because higher walls get out of plumb without shimming and will require some bracing until the surface bonding can be applied and cured on both sides.

Surface bonding gives a lower compressive strength to the wall, but the surface bonding can approach the flexural strength of a lightly reinforced wall.

Is the wall to be exposed or covered? Too often, people get to fussy when the wall is being built and the mortar is still soft. Lay to the line and make the courses level and then tool the joints once the mortar has begun to set. Brush later instead od sooner or you end up making a mess of the wall surface.

The codes may approve the construction using the surface bonding, but it must be done strictly according to manufacturers suggestions or code since the strength can be "iffy".

Remember, a property wall is a little different than a patio wall or a shed, since it affects others.
 
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Old 11-03-09, 12:21 PM
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Thanks for the dry stacking and originally was thinking about it. I heard if done correctly, it would be even stronger than the traditional method of using mortar. Any how, that is too late now.

Would appreciate if the following coule be answered:
-I am still confuse about the pouring of the conrete into the holes. Do I fill all holes or only the ones with the rebars? I would think that it should be bottom heavy rather than the entire wall be the same weight from bottom to top.

-Some areas, the original contractor did not add vertical rebars. Vertical rebar that are not part of the foundation, could it be added after the foundation cure?

-Also, the horizontal rebars for every three courses, does it have to be cut and J joint or can it just be tied to the vertical?
-Also, is it wrong to sink half of the height of the first course into the foundation? Otherwise, was it suppose to just sit on the foundation only?

-Does a 3-4 foot wall need vertical rebar?
 

Last edited by WRDIY45; 11-03-09 at 12:37 PM.
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Old 11-03-09, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by WRDIY45 View Post
-Also, is it wrong to sink half of the height of the first course into the foundation? Otherwise, was it suppose to just sit on the foundation only?
I don't think it was wrong, but I think it would have been a lot easier to mortar the first course onto the leveled and cured footing. That's what I did and dry stacked the rest. I filled and inserted vertical rebars in every other core.
 
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Old 11-03-09, 01:51 PM
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The rebars in the walls should be lapped to the "L" shaped vertical dowels coming out of the footing if you want to use or get the strength out of the footing (assuming it is the right width and dept). Otherwise, the wall can snap off at the top of the footing or near it if there is a big Santa Anna wind or a shaker.

Sinking the block into the wet footing is not necessarily bad, but most contractors find it easier and cheaper to set the block on a mortar bed for height control. I have seen it done with retaining walls and basements when there is rain predicted and the contractors want to get in a course of block before they leave the site overnight. Then they can always adjust the height and levelness in the next few courses. - It is cheaper than running a pump and washing the muck out of the excavation (rare in So Cal).

When you fill the block cores, concrete can be used, but it is not the best to use because it does not bond the block to the steel as well as grout, which is much wetter, requires topping off and does not have the larger rock in it.

Dick
 
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Old 11-03-09, 05:36 PM
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Thanks fxpose

Originally Posted by Concretemasonry View Post
The rebars in the walls should be lapped to the "L" shaped vertical dowels coming out of the footing if you want to use or get the strength out of the footing (assuming it is the right width and dept). Otherwise, the wall can snap off at the top of the footing or near it if there is a big Santa Anna wind or a shaker.
How do I fix this when they did not put vertical rebar into the foundation?

Does a 3-4 foot wall need vertical rebar?

Do I fill the cores that does not have rebars to keep it bottom heavy?
Originally Posted by Concretemasonry View Post
concrete can be used, but it is not the best to use because it does not bond the block to the steel as well as grout, which is much wetter, requires topping off and does not have the larger rock in it.
Is grout similar to Specs Mix or Mortar? Specs Mix and Mortar are the same right?
 

Last edited by WRDIY45; 11-03-09 at 06:23 PM.
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