Cultured Stone Veneer with Construction Adhesives?


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Old 02-03-10, 06:33 AM
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Question Cultured Stone Veneer with Construction Adhesives?

Has anyone ever heard of, or tried, installing cultured stone veneer with a construction adhesive such as Loctite Heavy Duty or PL Premium? This would be on an inside poured cement wall. I would stick the stones on and then grout between them as you normally would. Seems like it would work, but can't find any info on someone having done it.
 
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Old 02-03-10, 06:56 AM
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Keep in mind that most manufactures require a mortar bed installation to keep the warranty in effect.
 
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Old 02-03-10, 07:01 AM
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The warranty is for the material itself, and in no case will EVER cover the installation, so that doesn't matter.

Construction adhesives, mastic, etc will not work at all. They dry too slow, have too much creep while drying and do not have enough build (applied in thin layers). The backs of the phony stones are very rough.

Thinset or mortar are the only way to adhere it.
 
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Old 02-03-10, 07:54 AM
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Okay, so let's say I apply a couple good 3/8" beads of the adhesive to the back of the rock(doesn't seem that rough to me) and have a way to hold it in place. Once it's stuck, will it stay for good? My experience with these adhesives is that once they are cured the fake stone would probably break before the bond would?
 
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Old 02-03-10, 04:14 PM
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You sound determined to do this

Please let us know how it works out for you
 
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Old 02-03-10, 05:25 PM
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Let's go at this from another direction. Why would you WANT to use Construction Adhesive?

It will be more expensive, and you will have to hold each stone in position for 30-45 minutes or shim each stone. Why try and go against the advice and experience of the people who design and manufacture the product, as well as common sense?!

edit-With thinset, you can not remove the stones whole you have to beat them into small pieces, if that is your concern. Even with mortar, the bond strength is high enough that a fat man could use it for a climbing wall with 2 midgets on his back.
 
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Old 02-03-10, 07:03 PM
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Mortar is really pretty easy to work with. The trick is to just get the right consistency so the stone sticks and not slide down.
 
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Old 02-04-10, 05:56 AM
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Okay guys, I really do appreciate your advice, but I really had to try a little experiment last night. I took a "stone" approximately 4.5"w x 18"l x .75-1.5"thick. A pretty good-sized piece of ledgestone type veneer. I layed 3 beads of adhesive(Loctite PowerGrab Heavy Duty) along the length of the stone and stuck it on the wall in a back corner. I doubt I held it on the wall more than 10 seconds. I let go and then put some pencil marks on the wall along the upper edge of the stone so I could more easily tell if it was moving. I kept checking it and checked it again this morning and it didn't move a hair! So far I am impressed. I will let it cure longer before I do any prying at it or standing on it. I don't think the PL products would work for this as they would slide down the wall like you thought, but this Loctite stuff held great. They advertise it as having 9X the initial tack as other construction adhesives. Yes, I understand it is probably a more expensive way, but I have never mixed mortar and don't have to learn any "tricks" with this stuff. If this continues to work it is fast, easy, and no mess. Plus, since I'm doing this in my "spare" time if I want to stick 5 stones on the wall and walk away to do something else I can. I did see them do this on some tv show about a year ago with veneer brick and they said it worked great. They didn't say what product they were using, just said it had high initial tack, but I recognized the tube in their gun as a Loctite product and started looking into it. I'm not planning on finishing this wall for another month or so, that will give me some time to keep checking on my experiment stone. I really do appreciate the advice and understand where you are coming from. I have really been looking into this and most people say use the mortar, the thing is no one has told me use the mortar because I tried the adhesive and it doesn't work. Any other thoughts are appreciated.
 
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Old 02-12-10, 10:47 AM
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Update

Well, the Loctite Heavy Duty had great initial tack, but I was able to pull the stone off the wall, so I tried one more thing. I layed a bead of the Loctite down the center of the stone to help with initial tack, and then I layed a bead of PL Premium Polyurethane along the top and bottom, about 1" in from the edge. I stuck this on the wall and it also stayed in place very well, maybe moved down a pencil mark width but not any more than that. I waited about 1.5 days before pulling at it and this one isn't coming off. I pulled as hard as I could, pryed with a screwdriver but started to crumble the edge, and stood on it. It is stuck for good.
 
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Old 02-12-10, 12:13 PM
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Congratulations!

You have just re-invented the wheel and made it square.

As pointed you earlier, you were determined to do it and hopefully find someone the agree, but the experienced experts did not agree.

At least you got one stone to stick after a few days.
 
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Old 02-12-10, 01:22 PM
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Yep, congratulations

Myself, I'm going to stick to mortar
 
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Old 06-28-11, 12:37 PM
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Yes it will work

Folks-- pretty simple put a three beads of adhesive on the stone 3/8 bead recommended... next place the stone on the wall, remove the stone from the wall and wait 2-3 min. this will allow the adhesive to start to dry and cure, now place the stone back on the wall... if it moves at all repeat the steps 1-2... i have put up many stones/tile using this process and yes...you will not get it off once it has fuly cured...

Good luck and enjoy...
 
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Old 06-28-11, 01:42 PM
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Post deleted.

I misread and thought it was an exterior application.
 
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Old 06-28-11, 04:03 PM
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rockledge, welcome to the forums!! 2-3 minutes per stone. Hope you are getting paid by the hour, not the job It may work, but will be a slow process.
 
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Old 05-04-12, 02:07 PM
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Similar Problem...

The past dialogue is quite similar to what I'm currently experiencing, except that no one asked what material the veneer is being applied to, i.e. drywall, cement board or plywood.

Project is an interior reno, within a condo apartment, of a feature wall with natgas fireplace, 7' x 4', with drywall around and above the fireplace. Stone veneer being applied is in 6" x 24" x 1" (HWD) pieces, total number of which needed to cover the wall weighs approx 250#.

I'm being advised to go the metal lath/scratch coat method but not on drywall, rather cement board or plywood, for the reason that the drywall would draw moisture from the scratch coat, minimizing its effectiveness and weakening the drywall's retention capability. However, adding plywood sheet to the substructure is adding depth to the the wall that will present fit/look problems when finishing the project. ( I don't want to move the fireplace forward!)

Thoughts and experience would be appreciated.
 
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Old 04-08-13, 06:58 PM
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Cool Hulst, how did it stay all this time?

I have used this exact stuff on a couple stone veneer projects (interior) and it worked great. Did not take any more time than mortar. I used hardibacker boards over drywall on two fireplaces and two different kitchens. I have used traditional mortar method before on exterior applications, so I am familiar, however I am no mason.

My projects have held for a long time (one of them several years so far without issue), job site was kept clean all the way along, no mixing, no drips of mortar, etc. Important to me inside. While it was indeed pricier, it was quick and easy. The Loctite 9X product is key as well as the PL Premium Poly. I had NO sliding issues and it did not take long. I let bottom (initial row) dry up well, came back and knocked it out. I hate to upset the masonry industry, but don't knock everything out there.
 
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Old 04-11-13, 02:46 PM
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It is a dumb idea. Do it the right way, since it is cheaper, faster, and easier.
 
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Old 04-11-13, 07:40 PM
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cultured stone

Don't do it, useing an adhevsive, i repair a job that a carpenter did with adhevsive on a fire place created a bad smell , i would use a spect mix with a shovel of portland added gives a real good strenght, also would use a concret binder to the wall
 
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Old 02-09-14, 11:39 AM
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Respond to hulst 02-12-10

YES - the Loctite Heavy Duty AND the PL Premium worked great!! Followed hulst's advise and saved us many many hours and money. Thank you! Half wall on both sides looks fantastic!
 
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Old 11-06-23, 09:38 AM
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Stone on painted stone

This has been a very interesting and helpful thread. I have a little bit of a different situation. I have, believe it or not, a stone fireplace that has been painted, and grossly as well. It looks terrible. I have tried sandblasting the paint off to simply reveal the current stone underneath. It took an incredibly long time to do a square foot and took an incredible amount of protecting the rest of my living room, permanently stained the surrounding wall and ceiling so that I had to repaint it. Long and short, it failed. So the idea of removing the paint is not an option.

​​​ So I want to put a thin natural stone application over the surface of it. I am an accomplished tile professional, so I don't mind using thinset mortar, but everything I have learned and read over my years, says that thinset won't adhere well over painted surfaces, especially since this is at best satin and maybe even semi-gloss paint. Adhesives use a chemical bond and so have less need to engage with rough surfaces or pores, so I'm hoping that the loctite and PL products mentioned above will work adequately for my purposes. I welcome your feedback.

Thanks, Mark
 
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Old 11-06-23, 11:14 AM
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A resurrected thread:
Since you are experienced with thinset, give Weld-Crete some consideration. It is the best bonding agent I have used. I have used it to bond to painted surfaces. Only thing is you are still bonding to paint no matter what you use. How well do you trust the paint to stay stuck to the wall? How are you going to flatten the wall before you apply the new thin stone?
 
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Old 11-06-23, 12:35 PM
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Please create a new thread to ask your question rather than tacking onto the end of an old one like this - you will get better visibility that way.
 
 

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