Help with Joint Sand application on driveway pavers

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Old 01-23-13, 11:07 AM
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Help with Joint Sand application on driveway pavers

Hey gang. So after pressure washing my pavers I got a bunch of joint sand to fill the joints. Pretty simple overall however when all was done the pavers themselves looked to be still with sand on them. I thought just hosing this down would remove however I took it a step further but using my wide broom to sweep it fairly hard. (I would keep it wet while I brushed fairly aggressively).

Some of the driveway looks better but not all of it. I suppose I will need to do this a few times but does this seem normal? Is there a better way? If I re-pressure clean, will it remove most of the joint sand?

Thanks all

Oh on a related note, just yesterday my car tire went flat and I guess the sidewall was on the ground and left a nice trail. I used some standard citrus style cleaner and scrubeed and seemed to come off a bit but not entirely. Of course if I re pressure clean problem solved, but if I dont do that, any suggestions on best way to remove? I notice that HARD brushing appears to almost take off the redish finish on my paver and show just a white underneath which I want to avoid

Thanks!!
 
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Old 01-23-13, 11:57 AM
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I am not expert so take this with a grain of sand (pun intended)

I think you are approaching this from the wrong direction. I think you need less water not more. let the sand dry as much as possible and then sweep it off the pavers. Your situation may be different but when I have done minor paver walkways in the past I always found that a little moisture in the sand under the pavers made compaction easier and more uniform but the sand that I broadcast over the top of the pavers should be as dry as possible. I would broadcast the sand, let it sit in the sun for a while to dry and then sweep it into the joints. If I was doing a job that took more than one day I would do compaction and set pavers early in the day and then fill joints in the afternoon after the sun had burnt off the dew and dries things out.

In my experience the surface tension created by the water is not your friend in this situation.
 
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Old 01-23-13, 12:03 PM
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Normal, dry joint sand should not stick to your pavers. If you pressure washed and depending on the pavers you could be seeing the sand used to make the pavers. Concrete is cement, sand & aggregate/stone. If you pressure washed off the surface or if it's worn down with use you can see the sand and aggregate.

There is polymeric joint sand that is sometimes used. It's applied dry like normal sand but then whetted to activate it's adhesive which hardens it. If any of the polymeric sand was left on the surface when it got wet it can stick. Generally though it's not a strong bond so it usually breaks free or wears off with normal use.
 
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Old 01-23-13, 12:12 PM
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Pilot, yes that is what I used (Poly from Home Depot). I got a bunch of 40lb buckets, and dumped on my freshly pressure washed driveway. I then used my broom to push it into the joints. When all was done I swept up the excess sand on the top of the pavers as much as I could without going crazy. I then took my hose and misted (word?) it multiple times over 2 days to allow the joint sand to harden.

Taking a step back the surface of the pavers look a little cloudy so I performed the procedure mentioned above to clean them. I wet them in order to loosen the sand on the top of the paver, and then used the broom to lightly scrub the paver.

When everything is dry the cloudiness doesnt seem to come off in any way shape or form, which is why I thought to do the wet sweeping method
 
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Old 01-23-13, 01:10 PM
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Surface problems are why polymeric sand in not used on a major or critical application. It adds noting to properly laid interlocking paving system except surface problems and a false sense of security and no real strength addition.

The surface sand (plain mason sand or fine concrete sand) should the used before vibration to create the strength and allowed to be dry enough to be brushed off easily and let Mother Nature compete the installation in a day or so without chemicals and surface problems. Pressure washing just washes out the necessary sand and reducing strength in a properly laid paver installation and the ancient Romans and other never did that and things are still pretty good. I have seen 20 to 40 acre paving installations (100 mm thick - 3-7/8) for extremely high industrial use daily 24/7.

If you feel you need to enhance the surface appearance, do it after everything dries.

Because of the high use of proven systems, firms like to find a way to sell more products to increase traffic, since heavier materials mean more trips to the big box.

Dick
 
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Old 01-23-13, 02:10 PM
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this is good info for next time but unfortunately its already laid on my pavers. How would you suggest I clean them at this point? Thx
 
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Old 01-23-13, 02:55 PM
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RoachForLif

The safest way it wait for Mother Nature. - Or, gently getting down on your hands and knees with a soft brush and water. Natural products (even if manufactured) take time and weather to come back after a fast, improper installation. It will depend on the life of the additives in the unnatural sand.

I have nothing against polymeric sand since it convenient, but it is not a miracle invention.

Dick
 
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Old 01-23-13, 03:05 PM
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Ok thanks. Note to self to make sure its not that type of sand next time!

I suppose this weekend I will attempt to scrub again and see if it helps. On a similar topic any thoughts on getting those tire marks out of the pavers?
 
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Old 01-23-13, 05:44 PM
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Polymeric should only be applied to thoroughly dry pavers and completely cleaned off the surface before wetting. Putting it on freshly pressure washed pavers caused the adhesive to stick to the wet surface. At the time you might have pulled it out by watering more to wash off the surface but now that it's hardened...

Polymeric can soften if wet for long time. If you get rainy weather for several days or a week you can try pressure washing. You may end up blowing out some of the joints so having to re-do the sand job is a possibility.
 
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Old 01-23-13, 07:20 PM
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Pilot Dane's explanation is very good why it is never used on critical heavy performance (large 4 wheel straddle loader the turn on a dime) installations since settlement occurs and resetting 20 to 40 acres is not cost effective to use a fussy DIY product.

On these jobs, a good setter needs 3 to 6 laborers to keep up with him because of supplying materials and removing and replacing properly means starting out with a front end loader to remove everything and start over again. Roads and streets are usually done with setting machines and sand spreading trailers that vibrate and sweep up the dry crumbs. - Granted is different than a patio or driveway, but paver design, materials and procedures follow the same principles.

Dick
 
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Old 01-24-13, 05:55 AM
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I'm not as down on polymeric as Concretemasonry. I think most people mistakenly think and use polymeric because they think it's hardening makes it stronger like mortar or concrete. Really it's just a binder that helps prevent the sand from blowing or washing away. It's hard surface prevents seeds from taking root and becoming weeds. The real work of locking the pavers is done by the sand in the polymeric.

It's installation is a bit fussy. I make sure the pavers are completely dry and no rain is forcast for a couple days. Sweep and vibrate it in until no more will go into the cracks. You have to sread the polymeric in a thin layer around the worksite as much as possible as sweeping it tends to separate the coarser sand grains from the powder fine binding agent. If you sweep it too far you end up with sand and little binder. Then after the cracks are properly filled and compacted use a push broom to clean the surface of the pavers. Then I like to use a leaf blower to blow away the dust which is largely the binder that can leave a cloudy haze on top of the pavers. Then follow the wetting instructions on the package. Compare all that & the cost to normal sand and you can see why larger projects do it old school.
 
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Old 01-28-13, 11:49 AM
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"Then I like to use a leaf blower to blow away the dust which is largely the binder that can leave a cloudy haze on top of the pavers."

This is certainly the issue Im dealing with. Based on your description I did all this minus the leaf blower. As mentioned I will wait till its very rainy and then see if the push broom works and if not, then rent a pressure washer.

Being that I live in south FL, it rains here often even in the 'dry season'.

And I suppose I have to ask but from a chemical standpoint is there anything that may aid in removing this from the surface of the paver? Thanks


Also the only reason I got the Polymer stuff was that is what the guy at HD directed me too. But lesson learned for the next go around...
 
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Old 01-28-13, 12:39 PM
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What polymeric did you use? Try looking online for the MSDS sheet and see what's in it. Some say "polymer" binders while others use Portland cement which can be dissolved/removed with a muratic acid (make sure to read the instructions and follow all safety procedures). Also note that if your sand has a cement based binder any chemical you use to remove the haze will also attack your pavers so be ready to thoroughly rinse off the area.
 
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Old 01-28-13, 01:31 PM
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Although I got 40lb containers I believe this was it:

Sand Pavers from SAKRETE | The Home Depot - Model#:100039640
 
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