paver stones on retaining wall

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Old 05-18-13, 03:15 AM
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paver stones on retaining wall

Hello. I have something raising my awareness, prior to finishing my small retaining wall area. I am "1/2 circling" an area that is about 22', that starts at a sidewalk area and reaches out maybe 12' to a slope. The top of the wall is about 4'. (I am not putting in a drain tile behind wall, in the event this is brought up..not enough area to worry) So I am spot glueing the retaining stone through the build and top of wall will peak just over flush of level. I am somewhat uncertain, how I will retain the paver sand over the compacted #8 stone, especially out on the outter top ridge area on wall? I bought black plastic pave stone retainer stips, that I can see would help keep the paver stones themselves in place. I could see where fabric paper would help at first...but I can see that failing and letting the very fine sand pour through to the back side of retaining block. What is the trick here? It's as if though morter should be packed in behind the walls top few tiers, but I know that aint' gonna happen. Thx DM
 
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Old 05-18-13, 04:44 AM
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Your pose is very confusing but I think your concern is sand between the paver coming out? If so, use a polymeric sand. It binds together when wetted down.

For the retaining wall, using some landscape fabric behind the block will help keep the sand in place.
 
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Old 05-18-13, 06:12 AM
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I have never seen a retaining wall glued together last. Home centers sell systems like that because the blocks are small, lite and inexpensive and gluing them together does not require specialized tools. I think they are possibly acceptable for a decorative border but they lack structural strength for a retaining wall.

I am confused. It sounds like you are using sand during the build-up of the wall which should not be done. A retaining wall should be placed directly on the compacted stone base with no sand layer. A sand layer is used when doing a paver patio but not with a retaining wall. Sand should also not be used behind the wall, which needs clean gravel for drainage.

Here is a basic diagram for a dry stack block retaining wall. In addition to what's shown I like to install a layer of landscape fabric between the soil and stone on the back side of the wall to help prevent sand, silt & mud from infiltrating.

 
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Old 05-18-13, 06:59 AM
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Gluing or mortar in the construction of a segmental retaining wall destroys the concepts and requirements that have made them the most common retaining walls, whether 2' or 40' high. The wall is a flexible (by engineering terms) that is intended to be able move slightly with Mother Nature (you never beat Mother Nature). That is the reason they are set on a compacted base and never on concrete (irregardless of the height).

The top cap stones used for appearance can be held to place to prevent sliding by using a few thick dabs of silicon ahesive that still allow some movement. The PL adhesives and others do not cut it.

I do disagree with Dane about the layer of backfill behind the wall since the clean rock can easily fill and plug with dirt, silt and clay because of the washing effect. Using some clean concrete sand mixed with the clean rock helps to lower the rate of water going wall, but is adequate for a wall when all water below ground level does not have to move that fast.

If I was to put a rigid hand rail in, I would anchor one end firmly and allow some "give" on the other end, especially in areas with frost heaving or poor underlying soils.

Dick
 
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Old 05-18-13, 08:13 AM
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No....not using sand behind the wall. Only going to fill the backside with #8's and compact. I don't need to glue any of it. Was only going to do the top last tier, then the top cap.
My concern is with the sand, coming out through the top of the ridge. My plan was to have the top of wall (or a portion of it) flush with top of pavers...and let rain water drain over the top. I would build a ledge around the top for sitting, like little pillars with spacing to let the water drain through. So with this said...bringing this level of fill closer to the top is my convern. Is the idea then to let the back fill (#8's) spill into this cavity? I invisioned a plastic edger or retainer, that would help hold the rock and sand back (towards the top of wall) so it wouldn't cave into the cavity. When I get closer, I may take a pic and upload it to show my concern. I am putting no soil fill into this. There is no need for it.
And the polymer sand will work nicely. I sorta forgot how that worked. Thx for reminding me on that. DM
 
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Old 06-03-13, 06:51 PM
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getting there!

Hello. Will attempt to upload a pic of back of wall, as to my concern of sand and rock sifting through. I will pack the back in with the number 8's, then my plan is to take a roll of that black plastic edger (cutting off the top and bottom edges) and glue that to the back of the wall to cover the portion of the gap that the pavers will butt up against. Then apply 2 layers of 10 year fabric to help with retaining sand. I am going to go up with about 3 more layers of this retaining block, which I'll knock off the back edge and let it come straight up for a ledge, of 16", then a matching 2 3/8 wall cap. I intend buy a pile of thin limeston color flagstone, break it with a hammer and glue it to the back of the retain walling to hide the back of the stone. I'll let build my small rectangular charcoal grill out behind the center of the arch, up tight again the wall, out of the same color of flagstone. So with this picture in mind, do you think I'm going about this the correct way, as far as holding back the sand idea? I'm next going to the quarry to get a ton of compaction stone and laying this 4" deep. This will be followed by 1" of sand...then the pavers. Let me know....DM

PS. i used "tiny pics' website to upload free pic. The only size I could use that was any larger was 800 X 800. They didn't offer one 800 X 600. This pic here if rediculously small. Sorry.
 
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Old 06-03-13, 06:59 PM
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a larger pic

Giving this picture another try....DM
 
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Old 07-22-13, 06:18 AM
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3 more pics

My wife always said I don't have enough faith in myself! I'm pretty sure I've been inventing things as I go, as I sometimes get no responses to my questions. Now I can supply answers! If anyone is doing something like I am doing, I would suggest, on the outter area where the pavers are to be retained...buy you some of that cheap lawn edger and just cut off top and bottom lip. This leaves you about a 4" flat plastic surface. I then just glued this to the back of the retainers. It worked out very well. I will have 1 more pic when I'm finished, and that is of the glued in rock pieces to hide the back of the 12" of retainer. Hope you enjoy!
 
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