Brick Veneer on cinder block walls
#1
11-12-13, 01:01 AM
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Brick Veneer on cinder block walls
Hey everybody. Got a tech question looking for advice. I moved to houston tx in january 2013 from tampa fla and want to build me a house here cause all these homes here are built with "sticks and bricks" aka wood. My first time living in a wood house and I don't like it. All the restrictions require a brick exterior on the front or 3 sides. And doing research I haven't found what I'm looking for. I want to take the whole brick and mortar it right onto the cmu wall. But to keep the walls from being a foot thick, I wanted to use the 6x8x16 blocks, with the 2 5/8" brick. Plan is a single story for energy savings since this 2 story house we live in is like an oven upstairs at all times. All I've found on the subject suggest a vapor barrier for moisture control. I don't see why especially since it rains once a month here in houston versus everyday in tampa. We never had moisture problems. Also, will a 6x8x16 inch cmu be enough for a exterior wall?? I plan to use the 8x8x16 in the rear with stucco. Thanks
#2
11-12-13, 02:49 AM
Welcome to the forums! You would have to check with your local authorities on the size of cmu required. I doubt 6x8x16 would be economically feasible. You don't just stick brick to the cmu. It is a veneer and is separate from any substrate, sitting on a firm foundation and tied to the wall at increments with brick ties in the mortar joints.
What would be the problem with building it conventionally with 8x8x16 cmu? You said you didn't like stick built buildings, but want to skimp on the cmu.
What would be the problem with building it conventionally with 8x8x16 cmu? You said you didn't like stick built buildings, but want to skimp on the cmu.
#3
11-12-13, 02:54 AM
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Didn't want walls being 1 foot thick. Yeah, was planning on using ties up every 16" and on 16" centers. Also had planned to pour concrete in the cavities of the cmu along with rebar running from footings to top plate to tie it all in.
#4
11-12-13, 05:05 AM
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You can do it with 6" block to keep the thickness down. I have seen 20 story apartment buildings built with 6" partially reinforced block (no steel or concrete columns). I you lay the block with wall ties and with joint reinforcement every 2 or 3 courses, you can lay the brick later (even after the roof is on).
The brick should rest on a concrete footing or the floor slab.
Usually the wall will be slightly cheaper. Some contractors will charge less for a 6" CMU wall because of the weight and material cost. When you get to a 4" wall, some contractors will charge more for a 4" CMU wall, because the labor can actually be more.
Dick
The brick should rest on a concrete footing or the floor slab.
Usually the wall will be slightly cheaper. Some contractors will charge less for a 6" CMU wall because of the weight and material cost. When you get to a 4" wall, some contractors will charge more for a 4" CMU wall, because the labor can actually be more.
Dick
#5
11-12-13, 02:05 PM
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You can make it a 6" CMU with a 1" airspace and then normal face brick. You will be required to have the airspace as well as damproofing over the CMU. Wall ties will have to be used to tie them together as well. Flash and weep the bottom and vent the top through the soffit. It is a fairly common wall design, you should be able to find detailing online.
#6
11-12-13, 03:52 PM
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Yeah Tscarborough, I did want to avoid any gaps. If it is completely necessary I suppose I won't have a choice. I'm looking for a builder here as my guy in tampa said he's not licensed in texas. I found a site that has thin brick veneer and depending on price, I may go that route instead.
#7
11-12-13, 04:00 PM
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What TS suggested with an air gap is usually referred to as the Cadillac of walls (block, air and brick) since it handles wind and high winds without any leakage because any moisture is not forced inward by the wind. A plus is the air gap venting that really moderates the sun/heat effects.
Much superior to a stick on veneer over wood frame or even worse wrinkled tin studs.
Dick
Much superior to a stick on veneer over wood frame or even worse wrinkled tin studs.
Dick
#8
11-12-13, 09:31 PM
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Moisture control info for your climate; BSD-012: Moisture Control for New Residential Buildings — Building Science Information
I thought this was a good tip from the link, as Cm/TS said already; "Back venting brick veneers and installing them over foam sheathings also disconnects or uncouples the brick veneer moisture reservoir from the building."
Insulation requirements for your state- "continuous" is foam board, if you go with that- footnote "c"; 2009 IECC Climate Zone Map - Texas
Gary
I thought this was a good tip from the link, as Cm/TS said already; "Back venting brick veneers and installing them over foam sheathings also disconnects or uncouples the brick veneer moisture reservoir from the building."
Insulation requirements for your state- "continuous" is foam board, if you go with that- footnote "c"; 2009 IECC Climate Zone Map - Texas
Gary
#9
11-13-13, 01:08 AM
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I understand those figures but I suppose I will have to eat up some interior space. In florida, its cinderblock, stucco, 1/2" furring strips, and usually 1/2" drywall so the walls are 9" thick. With 6" blocks, 2" rigid foam, 1" air gap, 2 5/8" brick, 1/2" furring strip, and 1/2" drywall we are talking about a 12 5/8" thick exterior wall. We never had moisture problems in fla, even with our daily monsoons, no mold, mildew, no insulation on exterior walls. Never had problems and home was always cool in summers. Maybe I will just build with wood and insulate it to death. If these HOA's didn't require brick, I'd save 5" and thousands of dollars.
#10
11-13-13, 04:01 AM
I used to work in fla, the furring strips are 3/4" [you were close 
] but the block is different than a lot of places. The concrete block in fla is denser than what I've seen elsewhere. I assume it's designed that way to help the block be more resistant to wind driven rain. Stucco and/or paint adds to the waterproofing of the exterior walls. I've seen a lot of mold/mildew in fla although some of it was caused by lack or or improper maintenance.
I'm a painter, not a mason or insulation expert but I'd think you'd get a better insulated wall using 2x6 studs than a block wall w/ridgid foam .... even more if you spent the extra for spray foam.
] but the block is different than a lot of places. The concrete block in fla is denser than what I've seen elsewhere. I assume it's designed that way to help the block be more resistant to wind driven rain. Stucco and/or paint adds to the waterproofing of the exterior walls. I've seen a lot of mold/mildew in fla although some of it was caused by lack or or improper maintenance.I'm a painter, not a mason or insulation expert but I'd think you'd get a better insulated wall using 2x6 studs than a block wall w/ridgid foam .... even more if you spent the extra for spray foam.
#11
01-10-14, 12:41 AM
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I wanted to thank you guys for your help but now I got another question. I'm set to close on this new lot here in houston. Same size and price but this time instead of brick and siding, its stucco and stone. I'm happier now, and set to close on the 17th. Hoa said I can build with wood or cmu, and I'm thinking both. What if, best phrase ever, I frame 2x4 exterior walls, use blue board sheathing then bat insulation in the cavities, then use 4x8x16 cmu as a veneer built up much like a brick veneer would be and stucco over it to give the look we are after. The wood frame wall would hold all the insulation and the cmu wall will provide the thermal mass with a 1" air gap should provide for an extremely efficient wall design. Any opinions?? I already talked to some brick masons and they claim the cmu wall would be cheaper and easier for them to install over brick.
brick veneer optional
