poured concrete with grade


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Old 06-08-14, 07:53 AM
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poured concrete with grade

I'm contemplating having a concrete slab poured in front of my house. Currently, the driveway is compacted item #4. I want to be able to work on my cars, and wash them without lying in dirt or walking in mud. Or parking in mud, and we get a lot of rain in these here parts.

We're talking here about a, more or less, 12 x 40 ft area. There will have to be a slight grade away from the house to direct water. Does using concrete sound like a good idea? And how thick should it be? And how hard will it be to pitch it away from the house?

Would asphalt be a better alternative? In which case, how thick should that be? Cost is a consideration (of course).

Are there any other aspects of doing this I need to consider?

Thanks,

Gary
 
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Old 06-08-14, 08:08 AM
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Concrete sounds fine, and pitching it as you describe is done all the time. However, this will be a big job! Normally a driveway will be 3.5 - 4" thick with rebar mesh in it. At that thickness your looking at about 6+ yards of concrete. It will be heavy back breaking work, but if you have a bunch of friends and some tools, (Bull float, edgers, groovers, etc) you can normally DIY concrete for the price of asphalt. Asphalt you can not do DIY due to the hot mix and special equipment.

I guess I would start by getting some bids and see how much is would cost to get concrete installed, asphalt installed, and how much it would cost to do it yourself + the cost of some pizza and beer.
 
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Old 06-08-14, 08:32 AM
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With a 12x40 pad you would at least be able to span the width (assuming space on each side) with a screed board. And you might be able to divide the project into two deliveries. The other detail is getting the concrete truck in close enough to unload right where you need it. For a 40' length they would need to get along one side. If they have to unload from the street, then, as TI stated, you are in for some wheel barrow work. If you can repair the lawn to get them along side, just be sure there are no pipes or drain lines below and talk to them as they may refuse to back in even when you say it is ok.

If you dis a 12x20 they could back in the driveway to pour the farthest area, then return later that day or the next day for the lower half.

If you decide to pour the concrete, look for a friend who has some experience, if you don't.

Bud
 
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Old 06-08-14, 09:44 AM
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While you guys were responding, my guy was here. He will do the job at $6 sq. ft., 6 in thick with rebar (he doesn't care for the mesh), pitched, plus $$ for site prep.

At that price I decided on just the portion of the front of the house, 24 wide x 34 long. We settled the job for $5k, but I'm not locked in yet. He'll do either two slabs or four, my choice. Two separate deliveries of mat'l., move/set up forms in between deliveries. No way to be along-side, must be from one end or the other.

He makes a good point regarding the longevity of the asphalt vs. concrete.

What do you think?
 
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Old 06-08-14, 10:20 AM
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Always good to get multiple bids. Not just for price, but different people can come up with different options. 6" seams to be kind of thick to me but I am not a concrete pro.

I agree with the asphalt vs concrete. I am not a fan of asphalt for many reasons one of them is trucks leaving dents on a hot summer day.
 
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Old 06-08-14, 11:00 AM
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You won't regret having a 6" slab vs. a thinner one. Less prone to cracking, and using rebar in a 4" slab usually results in over-reinforcement instead of a balanced design. It's also difficult to achieve adequate clear cover above the steel without getting it too close to the base underneath--rebar resting on gravel does nothing for slab integrity.

A price of $6 a S.F. is reasonable in today's market, especially for a 6" slab. Just a few weeks ago a local guy on CL was bragging that he could do custom concrete work (whatever that is--isn't it all custom?) for "just" $12 a S.F. I'm probably dating myself because I can remember $2 a S.F. or less being a normal price. Just don't let your guy forget the air entrainment, proper cure, and adequate control and expansion joints.
 
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Old 06-08-14, 04:18 PM
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$2/sq ft, ya can't even get decent floor tile for that anymore....

Thanks guys for the comments. Is the entrainment additive introduced by the cement company or the contractor after pouring?

As for curing, he won't do anything else after finishing the surface in that regard. Is there something I should I suggest?
 
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Old 06-08-14, 07:33 PM
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If it was going to be hot and sunny, I would run a water hose on it a few times on days two and three.
 
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Old 06-08-14, 09:23 PM
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Air entrainment is provided in concrete by the addition of a measured amount of concentrated air entrainment admixture. It is usually added at the batch plant, either manually (small plants) or automatically (large plants) with the mixing water at the hopper of the mixer truck. It is dispersed throughout the batch as mixing and agitation proceed, prior to the truck getting to the job site. If the air content is low when tested prior to using a truck's batch (normal range is 5% to 7%), the concrete's air may be increased by a concrete plant technician adding some additional admixture to that truck's batch, followed by at least 60 more mixing revolutions. Entrained air cannot be added in the field once the concrete has been discharged from the mixing truck.

Properly-curing concrete prevents surface weakening of the placement, by not allowing rapid evaporation of mix water caused by warm or windy conditions. Batch water lost to evaporation deprives the mix of hydration water needed by cement particles, and can cause strength and durability problems. Usually either a covering (plastic, wet burlap, visqueen, etc.) is placed on top of the finished concrete after it's firm enough to resist indentations, or a liquid curing compound is applied using a garden sprayer. I've always used Kure-N-Seal. Waiting a few days before adding hose water allows the damage to be done in the first, very-critical day of strength-gain.
 
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Old 06-08-14, 09:51 PM
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Good to know BridgeMan. Figured the work would take it later into the day and wasn't sure if Gary would know when it was time to spray down. Going on old stuff that was drilled into me.
 
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Old 06-09-14, 03:31 AM
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sorry for being late to the dance,,, 12 x 40 vs your guy's 2 slabs or 4 ? i'se confused,,, is that 2 @ 12' x 20' OR 4 @ 6' x 20' ? not sure where you are in ny but i'd place 12 x 40 w/flyash, no mesh or steel, spray w/curing compound, then dia saw contraction jnts for 8' x 10' pieces,,, come to think of it, did that 55yrs ago at my house in binghamton - still in good shape, too learned how on rte 81, 88, 17, & nys thruway work
 
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Old 06-09-14, 03:36 AM
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bdge, maybe you can help,,, how does 1 introduce air-entrainment into bagg'd conc mix such as quikrete, sakrete, gawda'mightykrete ? they're all the same to me but no air,,, we do get some freezes down here

thanks in adv
 
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Old 06-09-14, 04:32 AM
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stadry:
Further down the thread, in a response post, I mention that the slab will be 24x34. So, the options would be two 17x24's or four 12x17's.

The expansion joints, he says, are made from a rubber material and put in place prior to the pour.

I live near Delhi, Binghamton being right down the road, so to speak.

BridgeMan:
Great heads-up on the Kure-N-Seal. I'll bring my new found knowledge to my friend's attention.

The first pour would begin around 7:00 AM, and the area is in the shade till the afternoon.

Thanks guys
 
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Old 06-09-14, 08:29 PM
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i'd rather see 8 x 8'6" but he's your guy,,, rubber expansion jnt mtl is a new 1 on me,,, expansion jnt mtl is basically asphalt-cement impregnated beaver board,,, i've never seen expansion jnt mtl stay in place on that size slab w/o curving - that's why we diamond saw jnts,,, if your guy's uncomfortable wet sawing when the conc's ' green ', there are early-entry saws on the market for cutting as soon as the conc's hard enough to walk upon

i look at these things differently having 1st learned conc work on nysdot projects - 88 thru oneonta & cobleskill being 1 job
 
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Old 06-10-14, 03:48 AM
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I'll find out more about the expansion joint material and post back. He agreed to the four slabs, I'll ask how much more $$ it would be to make eight.

Thanks for the insight.
 
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Old 06-11-14, 04:30 AM
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delhi's not a metropolitan service area like albany or binghamton so you've got local suppliers,,, should be able to rent a 11hp walk-behind saw & diamond blade - those + chalkline, hair spray ( pump refillable's best ), water = straight jnts NO beer til done work
 
 

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