Alternative for concrete for driveway?


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Old 06-13-14, 12:29 PM
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Alternative for concrete for driveway?

Hello all,

On the side of my home, I have a separate entrance that used to be this marshy swampy area and I decided to turn it into a driveway so the tenant downstairs (basement) can park there. I had originally dug it all out and put down 4" of 3/4 minus but after one winter it has rutted out and made a bit of a mess. The majority of it is intact but it clearly wasn't the best decision.

Now...the best thing would be just to do concrete but that's quite expensive.

I have heard of another media that is like a combination of 3/4" minus but actually has some setting properties? Apparently it has cement in it? Someone mentioned it in passing as a media that you have about 3 to 4 hours to work with and then it sets just like concrete and it's far easier to work with and much cheaper.

I can't for the life of me remember what it's called. IT was a 3 letter abbreviation from what I do remember.

So anyone know what it is?

..and does anyone know if this would be a good alternative?
 
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Old 06-13-14, 12:32 PM
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Sounds a little bit like crusher run, it has stone dust along with the gravel which kind of glues the gravel in place. Generally on soft ground it's best to start with large rock and then top it off with a finer gravel.
 
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Old 06-13-14, 12:40 PM
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Normally for a gravel drive, "crusher run" is used. As long as it's not subjected to heavy water run-off, like from downspouts or a steep slope, it works quite well. It's a mix of various size jagged stones and very fines (stone dust). When wetted and then compacted, it is very similar to concrete but allows water to flow through from rain and sprinklers.

I don't know what the 3 letter stuff you are talking about would be unless it's a regional term for crusher run?
 
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Old 06-13-14, 12:51 PM
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Hello: ladhilbluesband

Paving stones be an alternative to other materials? Maybe possible as a DIY project to keep costs lower. Just have to be sure using the DIY method, the base material is of the correct type and installed correctly also.

Alternative Suggestion:
A major BIG box hardware store out this way rents a looks like stone form maker. Used to make the appearance of colored poured cement look like stones IF actual stones not laid or used.

Found this right here on our site.
Refers to a side walk but may provide insight to cement looking stones.

The Pros and Cons of Decorative Concrete Sidewalks | DoItYourself.com

BTW:
3/4 MINUS??? Have no idea what that is or means???????



Thread was deleted? during reply??? WHY?????????????????
 

Last edited by Sharp Advice; 06-13-14 at 01:09 PM.
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Old 06-13-14, 01:01 PM
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3/4 minus refers to gravel that has rocks that are 3/4" in size or less .......... I think
 
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Old 06-13-14, 01:35 PM
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It's rocks that fit through the grading screens with holes that are 3/4" in diameter.

Btw...those stone/brick look forms are a heck of a lot of work! I laid about 90 60lb bags of concrete path at my place in VA. About 100 ft or so. Took 3 people a day and a half to do it. One mixing 3 bags at a time (lucky me) and 2 people placing it.

Regular pavers aren't really strong enough for vehicle traffic and would require quite a bit of work as well.

Crusher run is not much more than spread it, wet it, compact it. A vibratory plate tamper is best, but I've done it by just driving the car slowly back and forth. NO wheel turning in the new stuff til it has packed down.
 

Last edited by Gunguy45; 06-13-14 at 03:20 PM.
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Old 06-13-14, 04:40 PM
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Thanks everyone.

I don't think 3/4" minus is a regional term but it could be? As someone mentioned, the entire media can fall through 3/4" holes. It's a combination of rock and crushed rock down to quite small sizes.

This Crusher run/rock stuff sounds like what I'm looking for.

One of the problems is this driveway is on the low spot of the home. I have two drainage pipes coming from the roof that take water on past the driveway but there will still be some moisture there for sure.

In about 3-5 years I will just pave over it but for the time being I need a cheaper fix.

If I use this crusher rock stuff would I be able to pave over it down the road or would I be needing to redo everything?
 
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Old 06-13-14, 08:26 PM
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Going the cheap route now will mean anything done in the future will have potential performance problems, even CIP concrete. If the area is or was truly swampy, all organics and muck need to be removed down to a depth of at least 2', or even 3' if there's no sign of normal soil, and then replaced with a foot or two of 3" rock, followed by 6" of 3/4" minus. Then you'll be ready to place concrete or asphalt over it when the time is right.

FWIW--The openings in sieve screens are not round, but square. A lot of 3/4" minus material would not fit through 3/4" diameter (circular) holes.
 
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Old 06-14-14, 04:27 AM
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Is there a way to divert the water? Maybe install a drain tile under the drive so the water doesn't collect on it.
 
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Old 06-14-14, 05:33 AM
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bdge is correct,,, typically all crushed mtl passes thru several screens - that's how plants size their materials,,, eg, what passes thru -1 1/2" then goes to a smaller screen ( #57 ) what falls is smaller than #57 - what doesn't IS #57

another good alternative is asphalt/road/highway ' MILLINGS ',,, suggest you put down some soil fabric 1st
 
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Old 06-15-14, 04:30 PM
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Thanks Vic

those stone/brick look forms are a heck of a lot of work!.... Took 3 people a day and a half to do it.
A lot of work? .... Oh My! Didn't know that.

Yep! Thanks for the lots of work warning..

Out this way there are a few companies that install the red cement using the block stone imprint form for driveways. Cement must be maybe 4+ inches thick with foundation made with gravel and rebar beneath cement to ensure it will last for years.

Sure isn't cheap for average sized 2 car driveway.... Looks nice if one has the $$$$$$$!

 
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Old 06-17-14, 05:29 PM
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clf ? cement lean fill ? never heard of anyone using it for a d/w, tho,,, usually find it on roadway pipe crossings just under the replaced pvmt,,, also called lcf, too,,, then there's always rcc ( roller compacted concrete ), pcc ( portland cement concrete ), acc ( asphalt cement concrete ), etc
 
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Old 06-18-14, 08:23 AM
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Do like Bridgeman 45 says and over excavate the area to remove any orgainics and soft material. However, I would spend the money and place geotextile fabric down first before placing oversize stone. 2' of -#3" crusher run gravel placed in 6" lifts and compacted thoroughly will last your lifetime. Place 6" of -#1 crusher run gravel and compact thoroughly for a finish top and eventually the driveway will be as hard a concrete.
 
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Old 06-20-14, 11:56 AM
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I think at this point...I might need to just wait a year or two and then do it right the first time.

Sounds like I might need a cat or maybe just a bobcat to do the work. That's a LOT of digging!

Thank you everyone for the help!
 
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Old 06-20-14, 12:03 PM
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You can rent a skid steer loader. The better you get the base, the better whatever you pave with will hold up. You might also give some thought about figuring a better place for the water to go, possibly piping or channeling it to an area where it won't be as problematic.
 
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Old 06-20-14, 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by ladhilbluesband
that used to be this marshy swampy area and I decided to turn it into a driveway
...
I had originally dug it all out and put down 4" of 3/4 minus but after one winter it has rutted out
Eh, the problem is that digging out a swampy area doesn't convince the area that it's not a swamp.
Any hard flat parking area, concrete or asphalt, will heave and likely crack. Yes, you can reinforce it so it doesn't crack, but the it will just tilt.

First, forget concrete or any other hard surface. If you have a wet area, even if you dig it out,
the sub-base will stay wet and it will heave and crack any hard surface parking area.
Question, if you take a post hole digger or a garden spade, how deep a hole can you dig by hand?

Long story short, you've got 2 options.
First, fast option
Dig all the wet soil out down as far as a backhoe can go, Then back fill with #1 stone, gap graded rock, fill till you are 6" below grade. Lay down geotextile. Put in 6" of #411 stone patch.
What you'll get is a stonedust driveway that lets water drain through the geotextile into the gaps between the large stones.


Second, slow option.
For the next two years, put down #3 stone - basically railroad ballast - gravel that is is marble to golf ball sized. Regular use of the driveway will push it down into the muddy soil.
Then, for two more years, put down #8 stone, which is about marble sized.
What you end up with is gap graded stone/dirt driveway, the larger stones sink down to the sub soil / bedrock horizon, and the smaller stones sit on top. It's rather like adding drainage stones into a flower pot.

Hal
 
 

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