How to drain a patio attached to the house

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Old 10-09-14, 12:07 PM
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How to drain a patio attached to the house

Hi guys

Please look at the pictures below in order to understand what I am trying to achieve. This is about a fairly large brick patio
This picture shows you the problem that I have. The corners showed in the picture gets wet due to the water that accumulated on the patio close to the home
From there I suspect it infiltrates my basement


And here is what I am trying to achieve:



And now my problem: I don't have a solution for discharging the french drain that should go around the corner of my house. Besides that I need to grade the yard and the soil at the base of the wall that is not in contact with the patio. (the north wall on the picture)
As a quick fix I would like to install a french drain segment between the patio and the house. Ideally I should grade the patio and try to fix the areas where the water pools near the wall of the house but I have doubts that just adding more sand will fix the problem. In my opinion the soil under the layers or gravel and sand has to be regraded and I am not sure if that can be successfully done without redoing the entire patio.

Do you have any idea how I can discharge such a small French drain segment? Is it a good idea to put it there? Should I try a drain channel instead? My understanding is that the drain channel will collect only the surface water but the french drain has the capability to absorb water that migrates laterally after getting through the patio bricks and the two layers of sand and gravel
 
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Old 10-09-14, 01:15 PM
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Could polymeric sand be a solution in this situation/
I am thinking about applying it just near the house in order to waterproof (kind of) that area where the water pools when it rains
 
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Old 10-09-14, 08:10 PM
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Sorry no magic wand for this one.
Needs to be redone, regraded and compacted.
Bet you'll find they did not dig down the required amount and add something like crush and run before laying the bricks.
 
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Old 10-09-14, 08:16 PM
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Unfortunately Joe is right. The water will always seek the lowest level and there is no way of sealing it or stopping it from getting into the foundation.

I helped a friend in a similar situation. We picked up several rows of brick, added more sand and compacted it. Then reset the brick. It lasted two seasons but kept on sinking. Ultimately he ended up redoing the entire patio.
 
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Old 10-10-14, 05:31 AM
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The real question is, do I need a french drain if I redo the entire patio? And there is this complication with the raised deck which I am not in the mood and I don't have the time (November is around the corner, it is too cold for this type of work) to redo.
Dismounting the deck is not something that I want to do so if I end up regrading just the section that is north of the deck will it be OK? I don't have any water south of it, the only problem is on the circled corner.

The other question is this: is that corner getting wet because the water that accumulates at its base from the near by small pooling areas of the patio or is it because actually the entire patio drains toward the house???? I think that this is the biggest one here.

BTW I would like the end result to be something like this Actually this picture gives me an idea, I coud go with channel drain only for that side of the house where the patio is ...and that only if I regrade the entire patio or more exactly the entire area west of the house north of the deck
 
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Old 10-12-14, 11:50 AM
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Fixing a patio with drainage problems

HI guys

I would like to fix the problems that are show in the picture below. Basically when it rains the water pools near the corner of my house in the two areas circled in this picture. The result is that the water gets to the wall and due to concrete capillarity it goes up on the wall as you can see. It probably goes down in the basement as well, I still have to check the wall behind the drywall in that inside corner area.

I used the level to see if the patio is level in that area and it is not.
How do I fix this? Should I try to reset just the bricks for that area or should I go deeper and fix the layers under the patio?
Is there any less intrusive way to verify if the patio's bed was correctly graded?
Is there any way to add a membrane under the bricks in that area to prevent the water from getting to the wall?

Bigger picture here http://i.imgur.com/fZvvE2l.jpg


 
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Old 10-12-14, 12:16 PM
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You have several issues, not enough grade, that borders forms a dam to stop water run off, and possibly no gutter.
That wall should have been dug down to the footing and waterproofed before the regrading was done.
 
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Old 10-12-14, 03:38 PM
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Slabs would be graded, not level - 1/4" drop per foot of run is the norm.

Remove the stones.
 
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Old 10-12-14, 03:40 PM
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You have too many threads going on this topic - I'm going to do a merge.
 
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Old 10-16-14, 08:17 AM
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Hi guys

Thanks for the replies, sorry for not getting back with feedback on these, I have been quite busy at work and a little bit confused by the merging of two of my threads

Back on topic, here are a couple of more questions:
1) How effective is a french drain that is so close to the wall as in the picture below:

Below is a drawing (not mine) representing a french drain. Just to be clear, Our house does have gutters, clean and with no problems.

The above picture shows a foil of plastic that is installed in the french drain before anything. Doesn't that defeat the whole purpose?
On the other side my question regarding to the effectiveness of a french drain that is built attached to the wall of the house is questioning an issue that could be easily avoided by installing such a plastic foil on the side of the trench that faces the house wall. My concern is that in the eventuality that something goes wrong with the french drain the water will collect close to the house wall and it will actually aggravate the problem.
2)To recap, in my case, is a french drain attached to the house wall effective when there is no water coming from the house wall? In my case the water comes from the patio which will have its own work done in order to fix the problems mentioned in this thread.
3) The depth of the thrench should be 24". Isn't that too deep?

Home depot recommends a patio excavation of around 8-9"
EXCAVATE
The highest point of a patio surface can be as much as an inch above grade-enough so that the lowest section is at grade. Remove the sod. Then remove 4 inches of soil plus the thickness of the pavers to make room for the 4-inch gravel bed and a 1-inch sand base, leaving the lowest surface of the pavers 1 inch above grade. Excavate the rest of the patio, following the slope of the lines.
4) I am not sure about the soil that is under the patio but the surface of my patio is clearly not graded. The yard of my house is graded toward the North of the below picture. My question is: can I grade just the section that is north of the raised deck? The area under the deck and the area south of the deck is not getting lots of water and the wall is fine in that area.

5) If I have the french drain installed as in the picture will it be effective since there is a 90 degree turn at the corner of the house?
 
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