how long for 24" x 24" hole of concrete to cure around basketball pole?
#1
05-10-15, 02:14 PM
how long for 24" x 24" hole of concrete to cure around basketball pole?
Put a basketball pole in a 24" X 24" hole with 960 pounds of Quick Crete 9 days ago, and the pole still moves quite a lot, is not stable at all. Should the concrete not be cured by now? Temps have been warm and ground is not wet, the ground is mostly clay in that area. Any suggestions?
Thanks!
Thanks!
#2
05-10-15, 02:25 PM
Super Moderator
Well, no expert, but I'd say you should have gone deeper on the hole.
Did you mix and pour a watery or firm mix or did you pour the concrete in the hole dry and then pour water in on top? Did you use a stick or pole of some sort to settle/tamp everything?
Is the pole hollow? Did you force it into the mix or pour around it? What is the top surface like? fully hardened?
I think you meant "the ground is mostly CLAY"?
Yes, it should be fully cured (at least for normal use) by now. Clay would probably take a bit longer than well drained soil (not sure) but 9 days?
Did you mix and pour a watery or firm mix or did you pour the concrete in the hole dry and then pour water in on top? Did you use a stick or pole of some sort to settle/tamp everything?
Is the pole hollow? Did you force it into the mix or pour around it? What is the top surface like? fully hardened?
I think you meant "the ground is mostly CLAY"?
Yes, it should be fully cured (at least for normal use) by now. Clay would probably take a bit longer than well drained soil (not sure) but 9 days?
#3
05-10-15, 02:36 PM
You might be right - I just followed the directions on the pole, it said a 24" x 24" hole.
I put the concrete in the hole dry and then poured water on top and used a shovel to settle everything in.
Pole is hollow and I poured the concrete around it.
I can chip away at the top surface fairly easy, it is not fully hardened.
Yes, the ground is mostly clay - actually it is almost all clay in that area.
I agree - 9 days seems plenty long to me, but I have never done this in clay before, so I wonder if that is my issue?
I put the concrete in the hole dry and then poured water on top and used a shovel to settle everything in.
Pole is hollow and I poured the concrete around it.
I can chip away at the top surface fairly easy, it is not fully hardened.
Yes, the ground is mostly clay - actually it is almost all clay in that area.
I agree - 9 days seems plenty long to me, but I have never done this in clay before, so I wonder if that is my issue?
#4
05-10-15, 02:49 PM
The concrete experts will be along, but concrete loves (requires) water. It's not that you want it to be like soup, but you don't want the moisture to drain away or dry out. They will often cover new concrete with burlap and keep that wet for several days.
Whether anything can be done now I don't know, but I would try a light mist of water with some rags on top. may be a useless suggestion now.
Bud
Whether anything can be done now I don't know, but I would try a light mist of water with some rags on top. may be a useless suggestion now.
Bud
#5
05-10-15, 03:21 PM
Your pole is too shallow and you wasted a lot of concrete with a 24" wide hole.
Source: http://www.quikrete.com/SettingPosts/
If the post is too short to put at least one third of its length use Sonotube to one third of the poles length and partially fill with concrete plus vertical rebar for the full depth of the hole before putting the pole in the hole.
One reason why I was taught not to use dry. Probably not as important for posts. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_entrainment
Source: http://www.quikrete.com/SettingPosts/
If the post is too short to put at least one third of its length use Sonotube to one third of the poles length and partially fill with concrete plus vertical rebar for the full depth of the hole before putting the pole in the hole.
One reason why I was taught not to use dry. Probably not as important for posts. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_entrainment
Last edited by ray2047; 05-10-15 at 05:56 PM.
#6
05-10-15, 03:35 PM
The concrete should have been mixed above ground. I don't think that you needed a 24" wide hole. 3' deep x 12" (sono tube) diameter should be enough. Wait another 18 days & see what happens. You might get lucky. A full cure is 28 days there is a chance that it might be usable before that . If not, hang a heavy bag from it & learn how to box instead.
#7
05-10-15, 03:37 PM
Putting a pole like that in the ground is not a good place to use dry cement like you did. It takes quite a while for the cement to absorb a sufficient amount of water to cure and being that thick water may never penetrate all the way to the center around the pole! Your best bet is to probably start over again and do it correctly. As Ray said there is no need for the whole to be that big and especially since you used dry concrete it probably hurt you. Since you already have the whole that big you can't dig a smaller hole inside of it so you are stuck using a hole that big. Just take everything out, brace the pole and then pour properly mixed concrete around.
#8
05-10-15, 03:45 PM
Super Moderator
Well, I hate to say it....but "Lucy...you got somes works to do!" (in my best Ricky voice).
The "post hole" mix never seems to set as hard as a barrow mix...probably due to bad dispersion of water to dry.
Our Pro's pretty much think that method is useless for anything that gets stress. In fact, they use the term "place" instead of "pour" in many cases. if you can pour it, it probably has too much water. Concrete should never be watery as I'm sure you know, but it also has to be mixed well so that the cement, fines, and smalls all get evenly distributed. It's more like chunky peanut butter for most smaller projects. Pro jobs where it's pumped and such is a different story.
I know yer gonna hate this, but I think you'll have to re-do it. An easy way would just be to jack the pole out (probably just a old car ratchet jack or lever and fulcrum would do it) and change location. The other would be to get a tow company to pull it out.
You may still be left with the concrete in the ground. If you dig around the original hole it may pop out as a unit, then you could bust off the bad stuff and reset it.
EDIT...Everyone else beat me to the punch.
The "post hole" mix never seems to set as hard as a barrow mix...probably due to bad dispersion of water to dry.
Our Pro's pretty much think that method is useless for anything that gets stress. In fact, they use the term "place" instead of "pour" in many cases. if you can pour it, it probably has too much water. Concrete should never be watery as I'm sure you know, but it also has to be mixed well so that the cement, fines, and smalls all get evenly distributed. It's more like chunky peanut butter for most smaller projects. Pro jobs where it's pumped and such is a different story.
I know yer gonna hate this, but I think you'll have to re-do it. An easy way would just be to jack the pole out (probably just a old car ratchet jack or lever and fulcrum would do it) and change location. The other would be to get a tow company to pull it out.
You may still be left with the concrete in the ground. If you dig around the original hole it may pop out as a unit, then you could bust off the bad stuff and reset it.
EDIT...Everyone else beat me to the punch.
#9
05-10-15, 04:04 PM
Group Moderator
I agree with the others, you need to pull this out, the sooner the better. This should have been mixed and then put in the hole. I think you will be surprised how little the concrete has set up when you pull it out.
#10
05-10-15, 04:58 PM
T o expand on my post how long is the post? How high does it need to be. If you are going for regulation 10' then the pole needs to be about 15'* and in the ground about 3½'-4'.
*15 total length is based on 10' for regulation height plus i½' above that for mounting plus 3.5 needed for burial. I'd probably suggest even deeper because that is slightly less then one quarter length and one third might be better. So probably at least a 16' pole.
*15 total length is based on 10' for regulation height plus i½' above that for mounting plus 3.5 needed for burial. I'd probably suggest even deeper because that is slightly less then one quarter length and one third might be better. So probably at least a 16' pole.
#11
05-10-15, 05:14 PM
I have an idea. Remove the pole & buy one of those portable hoops.
Lifetime 44" Pro Court Height-Adjustable Portable Basketball Hoop - Walmart.com
Lifetime 44" Pro Court Height-Adjustable Portable Basketball Hoop - Walmart.com
#12
05-10-15, 05:33 PM
I'll have to agree with the others. A 20" deep hole won't hold much. I would have opted for the sonotube concrete solution, deeper, much deeper.
#13
05-15-15, 09:15 PM
Member
I can think of several possible reasons why the OP's concrete hasn't set properly around his pole. Including excessively high water-cement ratio, poor consolidation adjacent to the pole, incomplete water dispersal in the mix, cool (night-time) curing temperatures, etc. If the pole still wiggles after 9 days, it's time to yank it and start over. And no, the clay or hollow pole are not the problems (other than the pole probably being too short). I've set a few hollow pipes in concrete over the years, and never had problems like the OP is having. Better bond with the pole will be achieved if the embedded surface is swedged a bit.
Either do it right the next time, or go with the portable model suggested earlier. Many years ago, I collected a tidy sum from a fellow DOT bridge design engineer for removing a permanent basketball pole from his driveway, just up the street from me. He was a klutz, had no idea where to start, and had already received a quote for several hundred bucks to remove it. It took me less than 2 hours, using a hi-lift jack on the bed of my pickup truck.
Either do it right the next time, or go with the portable model suggested earlier. Many years ago, I collected a tidy sum from a fellow DOT bridge design engineer for removing a permanent basketball pole from his driveway, just up the street from me. He was a klutz, had no idea where to start, and had already received a quote for several hundred bucks to remove it. It took me less than 2 hours, using a hi-lift jack on the bed of my pickup truck.
#14
05-16-15, 07:34 AM
Group Moderator
When grandpa set metal tubes in concrete he always used to drill through the post, put a long piece of threaded rod through and nut each side. He did that twice to make an x, almost like rebar. More surface area for the concrete to grip.
